<p>I think Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, and probably Columbia and Duke are all thought of as being better schools. I can't say if that's right or wrong, but that's the perception.</p>
<p>You are right when it comes to engineering.</p>
<p>In general, however, Berkeley isn't viewed all that highly. It is viewed as "good for a public school." Whether one would think it justified or not, the reality is that Berkeley doesn't have the "wow" factor of mostly any of the Ivy League schools, or any of the top private schools. Depending on the circle and industry, it can be pretty mediocre. Better than the average, of course, but nothing amazing (which I add, is more than rather unfortunate).</p>
<p>Internationally, things stand differently. However, that is because international outlooks don't factor in undergraduate at all and completely focus on graduate school perception, in which Cal does very well.</p>
<p>I totally disagree that people think that Cal is only "good for a public school" or that its mediocre. I know in California Cal gets more "wow" than schools like Brown, Rice, Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Dartmouth, northwestern, Wustl and basically basically every LAC. I'm not from California, and when I told people where I was going they literally said "wow." That was not the reaction that I got when I said that I got into some of the aforementioned schools.</p>
<p>In conclusion, it's up to OP and his/her family to decide which school to attend. However, as shown in poster #37 link, Berekely is more prestigeous than caltech.</p>
<p>Hard Science/Engineering: MIT, Berkeley
Humanities/Social Sciences: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Berkeley and many others.</p>
<p>U see this?, Berekely is a well-balanced, complete university- thats y it ranks so high on the list. So if i were OP, i would take the regent scholar @berkeley and never look back ! ! ! :)</p>
<p>uh... I'd go to Caltech.</p>
<p>It depends on which circles that perception is made from, they vary quite a bit. Cal fares least well with upper-middle class white American suburbs, but hardly anyone has even heard of schools like Duke outside of the US.</p>
<p>About Cal Tech: I haven't been impressed with the social skills of most of the alums I've made. Cal engineers seem to be a bit more grounded.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sakky, you have no idea what you're talking about. First, I didn't say anything about being humbled by Berkeley english students.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Uh, I think that you are the one who has no idea what you are talking about. I never said that you would be humbled by Berkeley English students. </p>
<p>I said that if you don't find Caltech students to be strong, even when it comes to English knowledge, then you will probably find Berkeley students to also not be particularly strong when it comes to English knowledge. While obviously some Berkelye English students are highly knowledgeable, others, quite frankly, are not. </p>
<p>
[quote]
You're stuck in science world where everything is about right of wrong answers. English majors are concerned with creativity and and critical thinking, not how well you scored on the verbal section of the SATs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sure, English majors are concerned with creativity and critical thinking. But so is engineering, when it comes to actually working as an engineer. The Ipod was not designed by an English major, it was designed by engineers. The Cadillac Escalade was not designed by English majors, it was designed by engineers. Perhaps that should give you pause when you say that engineers are unable to be creative. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Lastly, I think technical majors are easy. Prove me wrong
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If that is true, then by all means, I welcome you to try out a Berkeley engineering major and see how well you do. Since you think it's easy, you would have no problem in graduating with highest honors, right? So why not do it?</p>
<p>"Since you think it's easy, you would have no problem in graduating with highest honors, right? So why not do it?"</p>
<p>Because it's a boring and lame major that is hated by all (even those in it)</p>
<p>"The Ipod was not designed by an English major"</p>
<p>And the ipod would be useless without people from the humanities to fill it with music and movies.</p>
<p>And I'll admit that while some EECS students are knowledgeable, others, quite frankly, are not.</p>
<p>Actually sakky, engineers don't design cars, industrial designers do. A project like the ipod is lead by industrial designers and product managers.</p>
<p>About which of engineering or english is harder: my english classes were the hardest for me, beacuse i really couldn't write very well back in my late teens. My verbal skills weren't as good as my math skills. I breezed through the presumedly tough low div classes (phys 7, Math 1&50,...) </p>
<p>Both types of majors are quite challenging, especially at Cal. It's stupid to say there are easy majors at Cal, you have to do the work, meet the highest academic standards set by the best faculty and you will have competition in the classroom.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And the ipod would be useless without people from the humanities to fill it with music and movies.
[/quote]
sakky was only demonstrating that creativity spans beyond English majors. Your point has nothing to do with what he was arguing. </p>
<p>
[quote]
And I'll admit that while some EECS students are knowledgeable, others, quite frankly, are not.
[/quote]
While your imitative language is cute, it lacks both substance and truth.</p>
<p>
[quote]
sakky:In US, Berkeley is well recognized as top 10 colleges along with HYPS, MIT,Columbia, Cornell, Caltech, Chicago. However, in a global sense, the pecking order is something like this: Harvard-MIT-Berkeley-Stanford-Yale-Columbia..... This is international reputation, probably due largely to graduate research and faculty recognition
[/quote]
</p>
<p>According to who is this international reputation garnered? </p>
<p>The only polls that I have seen that purport to measure 'international reputation' are the THES poll and the Shanghai JiaoTong poll. Both of them I find deeply flawed. Nevertheless, both of their latest polls ranks Stanford above Berkeley.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THES#Top_universities_overall_.28worldwide.29%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THES#Top_universities_overall_.28worldwide.29</a>
<a href="http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2005/ARWU2005TOP500list.htm%5B/url%5D">http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2005/ARWU2005TOP500list.htm</a></p>
<p>I find both of these polls deeply flawed for a number of reasons. First off, take the Jiao Tong poll. Forget about Berkeley and look at some of the other results. The notion that Wisconsin and Washington are somehow better than Michigan is a curious result to say the least, as is the notion that UCSD is better than UCLA. But come on. Honestly, how many of us are really going to turn down Dartmouth or Brown for, say, Michigan State or the University of Arizona unless money was the issue? But that's what the Jiao Tong survey would have you believe. Similarly, how many of us are really going to turn down Dartmouth or Brown to go to UMass unless, again, money was the issue? But that's what THES would have you do.</p>
<p>"While your imitative language is cute, it lacks both substance and truth."</p>
<p>How would you know? I go to Cal, do you? And my point has everything to do with was sakky was arguing.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Actually sakky, engineers don't design cars, industrial designers do. A project like the ipod is lead by industrial designers and product managers.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Oh? So what would you call guys like Tony Fadell and Jon Rubenstein? Maybe somebody should tell them that they aren't really engineers, despite having engineering degrees (and certainly not having English degrees).</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Fadell%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Fadell</a>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Rubinstein%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Rubinstein</a></p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Peck%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Peck</a></p>
<p>C'mon, Atticus Finch!</p>
<p>We both know that no polls are flawless. But this is Time data</p>
<p>Top universities overall (worldwide)
Rank Institution Country Score (out of 1000)
1 Harvard University USA 1000.0
2 University of California, Berkeley USA 880.2
3 Massachusetts Institute of Technology USA 788.9
4 California Institute of Technology USA 738.9
5 University of Oxford UK 731.8
6 University of Cambridge UK 725.4
7 Stanford University USA 688.0
8 Yale University USA 582.8
9 Princeton University USA 557.5
10 ETH Zurich Switzerland 553.7 </p>
<p>well, at least this data did capture the number 1 & number 2 right !!!:p</p>
<p>**.. is the argument here where OP should go to college or which is a *better major, engineering or english?</p>
<p>
[quote]
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Peck%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Peck</a></p>
<p>C'mon, Atticus Finch!
[/quote]
Yeah, but what has he done recently?</p>
<p>He died.</p>
<p>(for your sins, and the sins of every engineer in the world)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Because it's a boring and lame major that is hated by all (even those in it)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>But you said yourself that it would be easy. So who cares if it's boring? Since it's so easy, you would be able to spend very little time studying anyway, which would leave you with boatloads of free time. In fact, you may not even need to study at all. Just show up, take the tests, ace them, collect your A+'s, and be done with it. </p>
<p>
[quote]
And the ipod would be useless without people from the humanities to fill it with music and movies
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And without the technical devices necessary to enjoy music and movies, then all of the people making music and movies would have no means to present them to customers. In other words, if the movie camera had never been invented, we would have no movie actors or directors. Without musical instruments and recording devices, we would have no musicians. So what's your point? </p>
<p>
[quote]
And I'll admit that while some EECS students are knowledgeable, others, quite frankly, are not.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I also freely admit that while some English students are knowledgeable, many others are not. So what's your point?</p>
<p>
[quote]
We both know that no polls are flawless. But this is Time data</p>
<p>Top universities overall (worldwide)
Rank Institution Country Score (out of 1000)
1 Harvard University USA 1000.0
2 University of California, Berkeley USA 880.2
3 Massachusetts Institute of Technology USA 788.9
4 California Institute of Technology USA 738.9
5 University of Oxford UK 731.8
6 University of Cambridge UK 725.4
7 Stanford University USA 688.0
8 Yale University USA 582.8
9 Princeton University USA 557.5
10 ETH Zurich Switzerland 553.7 </p>
<p>well, at least this data did capture the number 1 & number 2 right !!!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Uh, that IS the THES ranking - specifically the ranking for 2004. THES stands for the Times Higher Education Supplement. </p>
<p>However, like I said, THES came out with a new ranking in 2005. </p>
<p>Honestly, what is the point of pulling out old rankings that have been superceded by more current rankings? I don't go around pulling out the old USNews rankings from the late 90's when Berkeley actually (briefly) dropped out of the top 25.</p>