<p>Sorry, but I accidentally stubled upon this and had to comment:</p>
<p>Uber, money is the reason why Edwards went to an Ivy and almost became Vice President? Right? Oh, wait, that's right, he didn't go to an Ivy, or Stanford, or any of your beloved "elite" colleges. For that matter, Cheney got kicked out of Yale.</p>
<p>Mr.B, I have noticed the same thing. One of the smartest people i ever met didn't finish college.</p>
<p>Berkeley's undergraduate student body is substantially larger than any of the Ivy League schools. You could probably select from Berkeley's freshman class a group of people the size of the freshman class at an average Ivy with high school grades and test scores comparable to that of those of the Ivy freshman class.</p>
<p>Sure, the Ivy will send a higher percentage of its alumni to top graduate school programs. Logically, this tells us nothing about what odds a student who is offered admission to both will face when applying to graduate school. </p>
<p>After all, a boy who wants to grow to be more than six feet tall will not improve his odds of doing so by choosing to play basketball instead of baseball, even though basketball players are on average taller than baseball players.</p>
<p>After reading these posts part of me wants to laugh and part of me wants to cry. The people on these boards that have the gall to call Berkeley horrendous are out of there minds! Getting away from the argument of which is better, Ivies or Berkeley, the fact is that UC Berkeley is a great school, even if it doesnt measure up to the requisite sat, gpa, blah blah blah of Harvard and Yale. The one thing I can guarantee is that nobody that went to Cal is talking all this crap about how bad it is. I for one can speak from experience, and I can tell you that the horror stories that Ive heard from everyone on this board about class size and stupid students and insane bureaucracy are totally unfounded. I have no class that has more that 40 students in it and all of my professors are completely willing and excited about meeting during office hours to talk about anything. I was given a full scholarship and havent dealt with any red tape issues and have had an amazing time in class. My English lit teacher is one of the preeminent Beowulf scholars in the world and I can go talk with him whenever I want. How many people can actually say that about the school that they attend? Im not arrogant enough to say Cal is better than school X because I have nothing other than hearsay to base my opinion on, but I can say that Cal is a perfect fit for me.</p>
<p>I think it is primarily Californians who have such high opinions of Berkeley. Out in the East the only colleges we think are worth moving for are Stanford and Caltech. Berkeley just doesn't make the cut. I guess that's because many of us would say, "Why go to Berkeley if Harvard, Yale, MIT, Princeton, the other ivies, Georgetown, Amherst, and many other outstanding colleges are in our own backyard." I'm sure Berkeley is a decent school, but it isn't as good as Berkeleyans try to make it seem.</p>
<p>how would you know? You're from the east and have never been to the school or probably met anyone who has, so how can you possibly say that its not as good as people think? How about this: I think you go to a horrible school. I don't know where you go, but I'm sure its really overated because over here on the west coast we know that those schools on the east that we've never stepped foot inside are completely overhyped. Just because Cal is a public school that actually tries to educate as many people who might not otherwise get an education doesn't mean that it is not one of the best schools in the world.</p>
<p>I moved to California,in part, so my kids would be eligible to go to the California UCs. They surpass Eastern State Schools, with the exception of Cornell's state colleges and possibly UV. Easterners have heard of Berkeley, but that is not a great reason to pick a college. If you want to know how well an undergraduate program is, see where the students go when they graduate. Berkeley grads get into great jobs and great grad schools. If you want to see how good a graduate program is look to see where they went to work. A Phd from Berkeley is a highly regarded prize. Look how many of your top colleges higher Phds from California UCs, particuarly Berkeley.</p>
<p>Berkeley is a great school.</p>
<p>Gutrade, I live in San Francisco and I can tell you that people here do not think of Berkeley as a super-duper school. It has a reputation for large classes filled with professors that can't teach. You don't have to be a stand-out student to get into Berkeley, but you have to be a genius to get into Stanford, Caltech, Harvard, MIT, etc. I think you are over emphasizing regional bias. </p>
<p>Just like on the East Coast, we believe the only uber-elite, top of the line schools in our state are Stanford and Caltech.</p>
<p>Well, I live in Marin and many people do think of Berkeley as a super-duper school. We might be a little less snobby up north.</p>
<p>First, Uberguy does not go to Cal, he goes to a community college. I know he has said that he went to UCLA which, if hes not lying, would give him some credibility on that subject, but definitely not UC Berkeley. From the tenor of his writing he strikes me as someone who didnt get into any of the schools that he applied to, which would understandably make him a bit hostile, but for anyone to seriously listen to his thoughts on the quality of education at any school other than some random JC in San Francisco (and possibly UCLA, although I highly doubt it) you would be doing yourself a disservice. As for the other naysayer, Gutrade, he was scrambling like crazy trying to apply to Cal after his oh-so-great stanfurd rejected his arse, so any comments from him don't hold much water. But I guess its good that he missed the dealine because I don't think I could have dealt with hearing him whine about another rejection letter.</p>
<p>Where did you get the insane notion that I went to a community college? Is that the only way you can respond to an argument.......by making false claims and slandering your opponent? I never went to a community college, and I did in fact graduate from UCLA. Please find me the post where I said I went to a community college. You represent the typical Berkeley-ish behavior of making false claims and using them for the backbone of your arguments. That's probably why the top job positions go to Stanford grads whereas the hoards of Berkeleyans have to pick up after their crumbs. </p>
<p>From the "tenor of your writing," I can tell you go to Berkeley. The bottled up anger from your Stanford rejection letter and the deep-seated insecurity of going to a school that is leaking resources faster than a third order differential equation are definitely reflected in your incoherent babble.</p>
<p>35 out of 36 departments ranked in top ten..Berkeley is a formidable school. <a href="http://www.berkeley.edu/about/honors/grad/%5B/url%5D">http://www.berkeley.edu/about/honors/grad/</a></p>
<p>I am a Cornell graduate and I have tremendous respect for Berkeley. People in Sacramento seem to think it is the best UC, at least all of the students I talk to, but as I have stated elsewhere, I like UCLA (maybe it is easier to spell) </p>
<p>I have a friend, who runs a scuba shop and takes people scuba diving in Hawaii, who went to Stanford and he seems like a nice guy so I have nothing bad to say about Stanford. I know a number of students who prefer one school over another and I don't think any of them are wrong for their belief. People will believe what they want to believe.</p>
<p>ubermensch, we proved a long time ago in this thread that all your info is false and that you're just a stanford troll. Why keep trying? As for the person above who thinks that Berkeley is a mediocre school compared to the east coast schools, I visited all those east coast schools and I think they are overrated. They would offer me nothing that Berkeley wouldn't. The people who need to know about Berkeley on the east coast do and thats all that matters.</p>
<p>conor, UCLA students wouldnt talk bad about berkeley. many ucla kids got into berkeley too and vice versa, and consequently, couldve enrolled in either one but chose the one that fit them better. we have respect for each other, and in fact, for the rest of the UC system. like bcp05 points out, ubermensch is not a UCLA student but rather a stanford troll. i hate to point posters out but thats how i feel too.</p>
<p>ubermensch
Junior Member</p>
<p>Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 171 Before anybody blasts me, I don't go to any of the schools mentioned above. I go to City College of San Francisco and I want to transfer into one of the ivies, Stanford, or MIT if I can. I am guaranteed admission to Berkeley with my 4.0 GPA so I don't have to worry about "aiming too high" and ending up nowhere. But the the fact that so many other people I know have 3.5 GPA's and guaranteed admission to Berkeley makes me think that it is unfair that I worked so hard to get 4.0 only to end up at the same school with people who didn't work that hard. Tons of people get into Berkeley from here (who were straight C students in high school) so it sort of reduces the value of admission.</p>
<p>Ubermensch=You are a complete phony/sociopath.
P.S. nice math simile, you're obviously a mental giant.</p>
<p>Conor,</p>
<p>That 4.0 hasn't been wasted: those grades will also count if you apply to graduate or professional school. Besides, there are intrinsic rewards for diligent study as well. I assume you're not merely in school to produce a transcript, but also to learn as much as you can.</p>
<p>"
From the "tenor of your writing," I can tell you go to Berkeley. The bottled up anger from your Stanford rejection letter and the deep-seated insecurity of going to a school that is leaking resources faster than a third order differential equation are definitely reflected in your incoherent babble."</p>
<p>Change Berkeley to UCLA, and everything seems to apply perfectly to you. Funny how other people can be happy goint to schools you deem "mediocre" - it's not their fault you couldn't get in to Stanford.</p>
<p>What's with all the Stanford bashing and comparisons. Get a life dudes. There's always graduate school.</p>
<p>I didnt notice anyone say anything particularly bad about stanfurd. Seeing your compulsion to post whenever anyone mentions your school tells me that theres probably not a lot going on out there on the farm (except massive grade inflation and coddling), but hey, feel free to come hype up your school whenever you want. In truth, and to the dismay of many other cal bears, I have nothing against Stanfurd. From what I hear its a great school. I didn't aply to stanfurd, have no desire to go to there, and am completely happy with were I am. It seems to me that if you really thought your school was so great you'd just shut up about it and enjoy the premium education that you're getting. I am.</p>
<p>You can get a good education anywhere you go......including state and community colleges. The only thing that sets schools like Stanford and Harvard apart from schools like Berkeley and Chico State is the prestige and recognition of going to the best school in the world vs going to a run-of-the-mill school. I'm sure the same mathematical concepts and works of literature are taught at all colleges in America. But a Harvard or Stanford diploma is just seen in a much different light than one from a regular school.</p>
<p>Now whether that means something or not is completely up to you. Like what Condor stated, he's getting a world class education at Berkeley. This means you can get a world class education at any school you choose to attend, even if it's name doesn't have a fancy "ord" or "ard" at the end.</p>