Berkeley's Standing

College Search & Selection
101

<p>"The only thing that sets schools like Stanford and Harvard apart from schools like Berkeley and Chico State is the prestige and recognition of going to the best school in the world vs going to a run-of-the-mill school. I'm sure the same mathematical "</p>

<p>Gutrade, comparing Berkeley and Chico State is simply laughable. As an East-coaster (correct me if I'm wrong) you seem to have little knowledge about Berkeley. In California, the name of Cal-Berkeley is BIG, I would say bigger than Brown or Dartmouth, not to mention LACs like Amherst. You surely need to get some exposure about US colleges before you know how big Berkeley is in academic circle. Yes, Berkeley is more indiscriminate than most of the Ivies. Nevertheless, the top cream of Berkeley students are often better than the lower Ivies' cream students, not to mention the strength of its curricula and faculty, for which only HYPM in the East Coast are comparable.</p>

102

<p>It’s nice to see that Butrade is finally coming around and realizing that a Stanfurd or Harvard education is on par with Chico state. It’s very brave of you to admit that, and I certainly commend you for it. That said, I still have a great mental image of you running around like a beheaded chicken trying to get an application into Berkeley before it was too late. Very Classic! But oh well, it looks like you're still shooting for the stars: The Chico State of the East(Harvard). Good luck!</p>

103

<p>A wise person with a good intellect could get a world class education at most schools, probably at most public libraries or even just with a decent web connection. Most of us, especially when we are young, need a little more direction and inspiration and that is what a good school will do for us. </p>

<p>I know that as a student I was often impacted by the quality of students around me and that the human competitive nature would come alive in a class where everyone was well read and had thought out their comments. Unfortunately that type of group may not be as easily found at Chico State in California or Oneonta State in New York. I think you could find that type of student group at most of the UCs and so I think they are a cut above the average state college and even above some privates too.</p>

<p>No intelligent person is going to believe that Berkeley isn't a great school. Look at where its graduates go, look at the awards its professors win... It is a great school, and that doesn't imply better than UCLA or Stanford, but I do think they are in a similar range. Stanford probably has nicer accoutrements but that doesn't always translate into a better education.</p>

104

<p>One thing that makes Stanford better than Berkeley is the fact that the grading there is not so harsh. Graduate schools look much more favorably upon a Stanford student's GPA over the GPA of a student coming from a less prestigious school even though that school might not have as much grade inflation. For example, I think we can all agree that a Stanford student with a 3.5 GPA is going to be selected for jobs and grad schools over a person from Berkeley or Chico State who also has a 3.5. This is because the Stanford name makes all the difference to employers and grad school committees. Even though the grading might be "harsher" at Chico state because more Chico state students get D's and F's, the Stanford student who enjoys 4 years of grade inflation will enjoy a lifetime of preference and opportunity. </p>

<p>Now I know most of you will cry "foul" and say that graduate school committees adjust for grade inflation in their admissions policies. Well, in anticipation of your rebuttals, I have collected some damning evidence to put all those protests to rest. According to the Wall Street Journal, Stanford is the #4 feeder school for top grad programs while Berkeley is #41.
<a href="http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf&lt;/a>
So in spite of grade inflation, surprise surprise HYS send more kids to top grad schools than Berkeley even though Berkeley is much bigger. Surely there are more 3.7's at Berkeley than there are at Stanford just by the sheer number of things. But Stanford still sends more to Harvard Law and other top programs than Berkeley could ever hope for. </p>

<p>Here's something written by Sakky in an older post:
"In addition, look at the statistics that the top law schools and med-schools require out of Berkeley graduates in order to get admitted. They're suspiciously high. For example, Berkeley's own law school admits Berkeley graduates who have an average GPA of around 3.8, a quite high figure. <a href="http://career.berkeley.edu/Law/LawStats.stm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://career.berkeley.edu/Law/LawStats.stm&lt;/a>
Last year, Stanford Law accepted 34 Yale College graduates, and 2 Berkeley grads. Yeah, that's right, 2. And the average GPA was a 4.12 for the Berkeley students who got into Stanford Law. That's almost a superhuman feat. Last year, Harvard Law accepted 70 Yale College graduates, and 3 Berkeley grads." </p>

<p>"Hell, let's give true home-field advantage to Berkeley grads, and let's talk about who UCBerkeley's Boalt-Hall Law School accepted last year. Now we're really stacking the deck because relative to Yale grads, more Berkeley grads are California in-state residents and are therefore mandated by law to enjoy easier admissions to Boalt. Not only that, but it's Berkeley's own law school we're talking about here, so Berkeley grads should be favored. So what are the numbers? Boalt accepted 19 Berkeley graduates. How many Yalies did Boalt accept? 42."</p>

<p><a href="http://www.yale.edu/career/students/gradprof/lawschool/media/statistics2003.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yale.edu/career/students/gradprof/lawschool/media/statistics2003.pdf&lt;/a> </p>

<p>So there you have it folks. Berkeley grades extremely harshly and they don't get any compensation for that. If anything, they need HIGHER grades than the students of Stanford, who just chill and bask in the warm caress of grade inflation. I have shown you all the concrete proof of how Berkeley does pretty badly in terms of grad school placement and how stellar Stanford does. You need a 4.12 at Berkeley to stand any chance of getting into HYS for grad school, but only a 3.5 or so if you go to Stanford or Harvard. And the ironic thing is that a 3.5 is so easy to get at Stanford/Harvard.</p>

105

<p>Boy, it's too bad Stanfurd rejected you, that would have been a pretty sweet deal. Keep those fingers crossed about Harvard.</p>

106

<p>It's cool dude. I already got a likely letter from Yale. Also, I guess it's not possible to respond to my argument because it is the truth. Some pretty damning evidence, no?</p>

<p>Oh and it's funny how Berkeley people respond to an argument with ad hominem attacks. Very professional. Very Berkeley-ish. So in the spirit of Blue and Gold, I will stoop to your level just this one time.</p>

<p>Did you know that it was us Yalies who made Berkeley in the first place? You can call us daddy. We're the reason your color is Yale blue.</p>

107

<p>Us yalies? They send you a piece of bulk mail and all of the sudden its us yalies. wow. Anyway, I didn't respond to your little diatribe because I really just don't care how many Cal students go on to Grad school compared to Stanfurd or Harvard or anwhere else for that matter. Call me crazy but I try not to worry about things that have literally no importance to me. I assume that you're not saying that it is impossible for a Cal student to go on to grad school, are you? I hope everyone who wants to go on with their education is able to do so, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. The only person that I have to worry about is me, and I'm doing just fine. If it means that I have to work harder than some lazy yalie than so be it. I like working hard. I'm glad Cal doesn't have grade inflation, and if that's what you're looking for then it's all yours.</p>

108

<p>Berkeley = overrated</p>

<p>UCLA = underrated</p>

<p>That is all.</p>

109

<p>Exilio, we're not talking about UCLA. I just love it when you blurt it out. UCLA is a great school, and I would love to have gone there, however, even though its acceptees were statistically better GPA-wise in Fall 2004, it will take at least 10 years of consistent and significantly better results for LA's education to beat Berkeley's, and probably 30 more years for LA's alum pool to be greater than Berkeley's. UCLA is treated with respect, but it doesnt deserve more respect than Cal yet.</p>

110

<p>"According to the Wall Street Journal, Stanford is the #4 feeder school for top grad programs while Berkeley is #41. "</p>

<p>I will have to say that there is a portion of Berkeley students who are very bright and on-par with the caliber of students of schools such as Stanford, but I also have to say that I think there are a big group of students who aren't (they are more "UC" material), and because Berkeley's class size is so big, it makes Berkeley's feeder score go down even though there is a good number of Berkeley students making it to a variety of top grad programs. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/...lege_092503.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/...lege_092503.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>i'm sure that because haverford sent a grand total of 13 students, or mckenna sending 10, or bryn mawr sending 9, morehouse sending 14, new college sending 3, etc. that all these schools are better than uc berkeley, which sent 118 students to top grad programs, right?</p>

111

<p>The ability of Stanford's name to get you better jobs and admissions to prestigious grad schools is a major reason people pick Stanford over lesser known schools. The fact that Stanford/Harvard/Yale have grade inflation is just the icing on the cake. Who wouldn't want to go to a school that grades easier than lesser known schools and yet still gets you into the top grad schools. That's like the best of two worlds, and seems almost too good to be true. Also seems a tad bit unfair, but I guess that's life.</p>

112

<p>you guys are ridiculously lazy! What's the point of going to school if they let you slide by without learning anything?</p>

113

<p>Ummm.....who says you don't learn anything at HYS? I think you learn more at Stanford than at Berkeley, but you don't have to worry about grades or the bureaucracy as much. So you can focus on learning for learning's sake instead of trying to be a grade-maniac. You have much more time for outside activities and can truly grow as a person when grades are the last thing on your mind. </p>

<p>If you visit the Stanford or Yale campus, you'll see there are rooms filled with people who constantly read and study, so your accusation of "laziness" is quite ungrounded. Many people also study something that is completely unrelated to class because they have the time and luxury to pursue something that interests them instead of spending their cramming for a cutthroat exam. There is a much more relaxed atmosphere when there is grade inflation, which is why I think HYS are better learning environments than peer schools like MIT and Caltech. There's a reason MIT has a suicide problem.</p>

114

<p>Bubbles..I didn't ask for your opinion. So shut it. We all know how YOU feel about UCLA you nub.</p>

<p>You cannot assess a universities standing in a vacuum...thus it needs to be related to contemporaries..and the closes one to UCB is UCLA..so just to everyone a favor and log off.</p>

115

<p>Yeah I thought about it and I think it was wrong of me to bash Berkeley so much. It isn't fair to compare it with schools like Stanford which are on a different level. Berkeley should be compared with its peers like UCLA, Georgetown, etc. I think Berkeley does pretty well compared to its peers.</p>

116

<p>As I said, Stanford is way overrated.</p>

117

<p>Then don't put the school in your name. Duh.</p>

118

<p>As an alumnus of both Stanford and Cal, I must say I find this discussion rather tedious.</p>

119

<p>As an alumnus of Stanford and MIT, I just tell you the truth.
Stanford is way overrated. And you know that.</p>

120

<p>exilio, you sound like Howard Dean on drugs. I'm a strong liberal, but still, you dont need to extol the prestigiousness of your UCLA in a topic that has nothing to do with that school. And my opinions on most schools are more objective than your ranting.</p>