<p>Here's the situation: son is determined to be a doctor. He's been an EMT since he was 16, is a crew chief/driver on our volunteer ambulance squad. Great SATs, very good grades. He's choosing between U of Miami (honors program, he should be able to get stellar grades without too much effort, weather, fun!) and Haverford (much better academically and intellectually, good fit with son's maturity, personality, excellent placement into medical school, harder work). From what I've read, for medical school, it's the MCAT scores, grades and focused interest in medicine that matter more than the quality of the undergrad school. If medical school (to be a practicing doctor, not a researcher) is his goal, does it make sense for him to forego the much better college (Haverford) for the surer chance at medical school (the U)?</p>
<p>It sounds like your son would need some introspection into what he wants out of a 4-year post-secondary education. There is no comparision between the quality of education he would get at Haverford versus U of Miami in my humble opinion. I could be wrong. Being focused on being a doctor is fine, but even the science education he would get at Haverford would be better than that of U Miami.</p>
<p>Congrats on having such a dedicated S!</p>
<p>I would second achat. Plus, in an LAC like Haverford, he would have the opportunity to work in the lab alongside professors. Even though he's aiming to practice medicine, having that lab experience can only help his med school apps. Plus, the alumni network available at Haverford could come in handy once he start practicing--say, should he relocate and want to get some tips from alums.</p>
<p>I think you have to remember that you are NOT comparing UMiami and Haverford, but the Honors Program at UMiami and Haverford. I know absolutely nothing about the Miami Honors Program, but general statements about quality, research opportunities, advising, etc. at Miami do you and your son a severe disservice.</p>
<p>What you want to know is what is specifically available TO HIM. Mentoring? Advising? Special research opportunities? Lab opportunities "alongside professors"? Summer opportunities? Connections to the Miami medical center? Once you know that, in some detail, then and only then can you make a relevant comparison to Haverford (which of course is a great school.)</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is that some colleges offer their undergraduates an early selection program into medical school, which usually takes place at the end of sophomore year. These programs are usually binding and very competitive, but they do offer a guaranteed place in med school, and the opportunity to avoid a lot of the insanity in the general admissions process. U of Miami has its own med school, so it might have a program like that. Haverford could have an affiliation with a med school that works the same way.</p>
<p>Mini is also right to point out resources issue. Many colleges send students with to med school with noticeably lower GPA's than others, reflecting perhaps a superior program that helps students overcome deficiencies in certain areas. Pre-med is tough, but with enough effort, you could probably succeed at both places.</p>
<p>If I wanted to be a regular, family doctor (as opposed to a medical researcher) I would go to a decent small college that has a good record of medical school admissions, and work hard. I would NOT go to a high prestige school unless I planned to try for a big-name medical school because the competition is stiffer by an order of magnitude.</p>
<p>UMiami has a medical school, though a few miles away from the main campus, and a hospital on the edge of campus literally across the street. Pre-med students have lots of opportunities to volunteer, do research, and shadow working docs. It also has biomedical engineering, which is a very nice fall back as a career if the med school thing does not work out or being a doctor turns out not to be that attractive. What's the fall back position for someone with a biology degree from Haverford?</p>
<ol>
<li>Why is there an Honors Program at the University of Miami?</li>
</ol>
<p>The General Honors Program was established to encourage and challenge our outstanding students with an academically challenging course of study. Through smaller classes taught by tenured faculty the General Honors Program seeks to develop in our best students their natural gifts and abilities.</p>
<ol>
<li>What are the benefits for qualified students to participate in the Honors Program?</li>
</ol>
<p>Honors classes are smaller and focused more on why something is rather than what it is. As a rule the classes are taught by tenured faculty who are interested in seeing that Honors students' additional academic needs are met. These same professors also tend to have greater experience with hands-on research, and often serve as mentors for those who wish to get involved in research. Other advantages include participation in the social branch of the Honors Program, the Honors Students Association, HSA, which enables Honors students to express themselves outside the classroom environment; or an Honors student might be active in INQUIRY: the Undergraduate Research Connection, established to assist and encourage Honors students to participate in research. Finally, if you complete the required number of courses to remain active in the Program, you will graduate with the notation General Honors on both your diploma and your transcript.</p>
<p>Looks to me like this would be easily comparable academically to what is offered at Haverford, perhaps with more research opportunities. Of course, the devil is in the details. For example: to what extent are the Honors students involved with each other, creating an enhanced academic environment?</p>
<p>
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He's choosing between U of Miami (honors program, he should be able to get stellar grades without too much effort...
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</p>
<p>LOL. I think you might want to ask the students of Miami's Medical Scholars Program if they think it's that easy? Not only does UM have an Honor's program, but they have the Medical Scholars Program as well as Dual Enrollment Honors which is tied to Medical School admission. Not to mention...weather and fun can, and has gotten to more than one student, no matter where they attend. I'm not saying UM is a better school, but stereotyping a school or program by hearsay is not doing your son any favors. </p>
<p>1tcm -- a happy "Cane" Mom who's son is getting stellar grades, doing research with his professor in his hopeful field of "infectious disease", getting ready to take the MCAT in 10 days, and has several great recommendation letters from his professors.</p>
<p>Did your son apply to the many combined undergrad-med school programs? University of Miami is just one of these programs. I know of students at the Penn State-Jefferson med program (can be done in 6 years).</p>
<p>From VERY personal experience, I know that your son can get an excellent premedical education wherever he goes. He should choose the school that "fits" him best and is most financially feasible. He will, I'm sure, continue to excel, get good grades, study for and score well on his MCAT. And get into some very good medical schools.</p>
<p>Thanks to all for your input. 1TCM, I meant no offense to U of Miami. My comments were based on my judgment, not stereotype -- we attended accepted student day at Miami and have done a lot of research about the school and its programs. kono, my son specifically decided not to go to an accelerated BS/MD program because he wants to enjoy his college years. He'll attend Haverford's accepted student day, too and then decide. Again, thanks for your opinions.</p>
<p>As a Haverford alum and a physician, I can attest to the excellent undergraduate science experience in the context of an enriching liberal arts environment at the college. If your son does well, he should not have a problem earning acceptance to a well-respected medical school as Haverford boasts an almost perfect record of entrance for their students. I would therefore also look at college as a place where your son can grow intellectually and as a person. If Haverford seems like a good fit for him, I would encourage him to attend.</p>
<p>If a high school student seriously wants to get an MD, combination BA/MD programs (UM has one) is a terrific option. These programs are not easy to get into but have some terrific advantages over pre-med.</p>
<p>quiltguru -- Thanks for the excellent post. This is exactly what I've been telling D all year. It's not so much where you go it's how & what you DO once you're there.</p>
<p>I can add that the two students I know at U Miami (2nd and 3rd year)are extremely happy - they are challenged and very pleased with their professors.</p>