<p>Can anyone give me some insight into the pre med programs at University of Miami, Universtiy of Chicago, U-Rochester, UC Davis, USC and Reed? or can anyone tell me where the best place is to go to find out how these schools compare against other premed programs? </p>
<p>Also, Somone on here said that med school admissions compensate for the lower GPA's of students are more rigorous schools (with grade deflation), would UChicago be one of those schools that gets compensated for?</p>
<p>u rochester i hear is very good for premed</p>
<p>So while Penn is considered one of the top-rated and best med schools around, how does it deliver in terms of premed? Yes, I read in earlier posts the fact that Princeton and Harvard are schools better suited for producing viable premed candidates, but not much was listed of Penn. </p>
<p>In my particular case, I will be an engineering major in Penn's SEAS and, as rumor has it, the average GPA of any engineering student in the school is 2.6-2.7. These statistics prove extremely shocking and upsetting, as med schools frown upon lower GPAs, regardless of the difficulty level of university cirricula offered. </p>
<p>In this case, would you advise againt an engineering route and majoring in a humanities in its stead? Or, if grades and MCAT scores comprise the bulk of criteria on which med school acceptance decisions are made, why not attend a state school with a significantly cheaper price tag? After all, if one studies and works just as hard at either school, namely, Penn or some StateU, one would get a higher GPA at the StateU and a relatively similar MCAT school at both. So why walk into med school with $150G of debt to your name? </p>
<p>I say this because I got into Penn's Engineering and was set upon Penn for a good while until I started to think of the alternative path: the University of Pittsburgh. While my deposit for UPenn has already been sent, I'd be more than willing to sacrifice a measly $200.00 for the sake of making the right college decision.</p>
<p>Any opinions whatsoever? Everyone in this thread seems to be highly knowledgeable on the topic, and any responses or input would be greatly appreciated.</p>
<p>(Again, ultimately I'm asking for how reputable Penn's pre-med program is, and whether or not it would be advisable to major in engineering, majors which are often considering the hardest at the school.)</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>yea its obvious u shouldnt major in engineering then</p>
<p>The people who said that grade inflation/deflation was taken into consideration were merely hoping that it was so. It is not, at least to any significance.</p>
<p>Look at the med school acceptance stats. A 2.8 Cornell or MIT grad does not get in over an Amherst 3.8 although similar work and effort was probably expended. Some will attempt to prove the point by looking at a 3.4 Cornell having the same chances as a 3.9 Easy U., but as the GPA range narrows the other application factors start to influence the outcome beyond just GPA.</p>
<p>Med school admission success = 1. MCAT
2. science/math GPA
3-4. medical EC's, letters of recc
5. other class GPA.</p>
<p>Hence the constant advice thread of: Go where you're happy, do well, avoid accumulation of undergraduate debt, and know the level that you will succeed. An "A" in OrgChem 1 beats a "C" in Nuclear Microbiology every time.</p>
<p>Well, phish048, I would disagree with at least part of what you said. You say that "...After all, if one studies and works just as hard at either school, namely, Penn or some StateU, one would get a higher GPA at the StateU..." I think that is an unsupported assertion. I think a case could very well be made that you would actually end up with a LOWER gpa at the StateU simply because UPenn overall (maybe not in engineering, but overall) is a fairly grade-inflated school. </p>
<p>The grade inflation generally occurs as a result of cutting off of the lower-end of the grading. In most UPenn courses, with the notable exception of engineering and hard-core science courses, you are basically assured of getting a passing grade. Maybe not an 'A', but a passing grade. This is far less true at State U's where failing grades are a constant and real danger. Graduation rates also bear this out - at Penn, you are basically assured getting a degree. Maybe not getting a great gpa, but at least you'll get your degree. This is far less true at StateU where academic attrition/flunking out is far more of a danger. </p>
<p>I know one guy who was admitted to both Berkeley and Stanford, and chose Berkeley to save money, whereupon he promptly flunked out. Although this can obviously never be proved, a bunch of us strongly suspect that if he had chosen Stanford instead, he probably would have graduated. Maybe he would not have graduated from Stanford with the best grades, but at least he would have graduated. Practically nobody ever flunks out of Stanford, whereas plenty of people flunk out of Berkeley, and he was one of them. I believe that choosing Berkeley over Stanford was, for him, one of those fateful life-changing decisions, something that changes your life forever. Right now, his academic record is ruined - it's full of D's and F's and filled with all these provocative statements like "student is on academic probation", "student has been placed on suspension for poor academic performance", and "student status has been terminated". He can't really transfer anywhere because no school of any repute wants to take a transfer student who flunked out of his previous school. He certainly has no prospects for medical school or any other graduate school for that matter. If he had chosen Stanford, I believe he would be a college graduate by now.</p>
<p>Thanks for the responses, sakky and gizmo9187. </p>
<p>However, if I go the route of engineering, would you not agree that it would only be to my detriment in terms of getting into a medical school?</p>
<p>After all, with such a rigorous courseload that SEAS promises, I'm almost guaranteed to not get anything above a 3.5, i.e., unless I lock myself in my dorm room and study day and night.</p>
<p>So... humanities major? I'm only looking to become a practicing physician. Research and other externals don't interest me much. I wouldn't mind a humanities major in the slightest, but would it aid/damage my chances at med school? That is, a humanities degree with filled premed reqs?</p>
<p>Thanks again for the responses.
--phish048</p>
<p>Admission stats show that a well-performed Humanities degree, coupled with the necessary pre-reqs and ECs, in no way reduces your admission possibilities. </p>
<p>There will be those that will even argue that Humanities majors have a slightly higher admin rate, although the numbers are so close to be inconclusive (IMHO) that the sole cause is the degree major. My take on the success of Humanities majors is that they are much more driven to go MD than the Bio major that says "maybe I'll take the MCAT today".</p>
<p>The issue about only wanting to be a practicing physician doesn't matter yet. It's not like the process is a lot easier if you don't want to go MD/PhD, you just have fewer med school programs to get into.</p>
<p>I have always agreed that premed and engineering is generally a bad combination. In fact, you can search my old posts where I talk extensively about this very topic. </p>
<p>A humanities degree with the filled premed req's is fine.</p>
<p>Incidentally, I should add that I don't 'enjoy' giving this advice. I don't particularly enjoy pointing out that med-school admission is a game, and I don't particularly enjoy telling people how and why to play the game. But as long as the system is a game, then I would be remiss in not saying so. Simply put, as long as med-school adcoms insist on overemphasizing the value of high grades and not paying enough attention to the difference in difficulty between various majors, then I have no choice but to point that fact out and advising premeds to take easy classes where they can get high grades.</p>
<p>Are you kidding me? MIT has a medical school!!! How do you guys not know this??</p>
<p>check this webpage...</p>
<p><a href="http://hst.mit.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://hst.mit.edu/</a></p>
<p>These guys know that this is a Harvard Medical School program operated with MIT. It is a wonderful program, but MIT does not have a medical school.</p>
<p>Khalid889, so why don't you compare these two web pages, one at MIT and the other at Harvard, and you tell me if you don't find something strange going on.</p>
<p><a href="http://hst.mit.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://hst.mit.edu/</a>
<a href="http://hst.harvard.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://hst.harvard.edu/</a></p>
<p>The fact is, HST is not a medical school. Rather, HST is a joint partnership between Harvard and MIT. As Afan said, it is Harvard Medical School that runs the MD portion of HST. MIT does not have a medical school. </p>
<p>What MIT contributes to HST is biology and engineering educational resources. HST is one of the 5 medical subspecialities (called "societies") in which you can get an MD from Harvard Medical School. Through HST, Harvard Medical School students can get a slightly different, more theoretical medical education than they might get in another Harvard Medical subspecialty. In addition, HST runs a variety of MS and doctoral programs that leverage the pooling of Harvard and MIT resources - through HST, you can get an MS or a doctorate from either Harvard or MIT, and use research resources and study under faculty from both schools. HST is also a highly popular way for people to get joint degrees - i.e. a MD/PhD, with the MD coming from Harvard Medical and the PhD coming from MIT. </p>
<p>Read the following links and you should be able to convince yourself that MIT does not have a medical school.</p>
<p><a href="http://hstdev.mit.edu/public/academics/%5B/url%5D">http://hstdev.mit.edu/public/academics/</a></p>
<p>hello all,</p>
<p>i am new here, and wanted to ask a few questions. Because everyone seems to be talking about MIT, berkley, princeton, JH and so forth, i was wondering if ANY of you guys actually got accepted into their pre-med programs? We all know those are all very elite, prestigious schools, and it takes A LOT of hardwork plus some to get in (to all that are this brilliant, tell me how you do it? lol). I, on the other hand, i am a junior, but only have a 3.6 GPA (4.0 is the highest GPA possible at my school) at a high school ranked in the top 10 in the state of Washington. I've always got A's in Math & Science classes (and they are all advanced), but i definately know my application would be shredded into bits if i applied to any of those schools :[. so i guess my question would be, does anyone know what universities/colleges have GOOD pre-med programs (other than the ones everyones been discussing)? Like many have said before, getting into a good med school depends on how well you do in pre-med, but which pre-med schools aren't so impossible to get into? Does anyone know if the University of Washington offers a solid pre-med? i actually heard that Whitman (small private college) undergrads have a better chance of making it into med school then UW undergrads. What do you guys think?</p>
<p>This is probably the wrong way to go about composing a college list. If you are a good student, then you will have a choice of lots of excellent colleges. If you do well at any of these, you will be a prime candidate for medical school. </p>
<p>At the very top of the admissions selectivity ladder, schools like Harvard and Princeton are filled with students who have the academic ability and drive to get into medical school, so many of them do. In fact, an average college performance at such a college puts one comfortably in the medical admit range. In other words, H and P (and other "top" colleges) do not turn out large numbers of doctors because of the quality of the premed programs, but because every year they enroll a disproportionate share of the best students coming out of high school. At less selective places, one has to be higher than average in the class. </p>
<p>I cannot cite a reference, but I am pretty sure that most doctors attended state colleges for undergrad. If you are a strong student at an excellent high school, look at colleges by other criteria to come up with a list, then investigate the strength of their premed programs. This does NOT mean look at what proportion of students who applied to medical school got in. It DOES mean to look at the advising, get an idea of how much help is available to students, what research opportunities are there, is there a local hospital where one can do volunteer work, are current students optimistic about their medical school prospects, etc.</p>
<p>To pick arbitrary numbers, any of the top 50 USNews universities or colleges would be just fine for a generic premed. Or top 100. But many of these may not be good choices for you, depending on where and how you want to live and study for 4 years.</p>
<p>Dee_cha04, while I'm not going to name names or specifics, you can rest assured that there are plenty of people here who have been admitted to, matriculated at, or graduated from the schools you mentioned.</p>
<p>In the Studentdoctor.net forums the hub for pre-meds and med students alike someone who worked in the Stanford Medical School Admission Office posted a synopsis of what they do to screen applicants. He said there is an alogrithm that takes your GPA and where you got it, using a quantitative approach to the "hardness" of a school, and spits out something that compares people on an equal playing field. He said LOR's all are basically the same, unless they say something bad, so they don't play much importance. He said after applicants are screened through the initial screening they will go through the pile one more time just to make sure they didn't miss a promising applicant. After this, however, I believe it goes into committee mode... and I don't think anyone really knows what goes on in there...</p>
<p>bottom line, if u do well anywhere u can get into medical school.</p>
<p>Case in point, and I have used this example numerous times here.</p>
<p>My cousin who has a chair in the vasc. surgery department, and is a very well-known and well-respected doctor in Manhattan at Mt. Sinai Hospital graduated from CUNY Queens College. He did well, high GPA, high MCAT, and ended up at Mt. Sinai Medical School.</p>
<p>is it easier getting into a medical school with which the undergrad school is connected with? ex. is it easier getting into the upenn medical school when going to upenn for undergrad? </p>
<p>-Suman</p>
<p>not necessarily..</p>
<p>although there are certain med school adcoms that give preference to alum. Also, some medical schools also give automatic interviews to graduates of the medical schools affiliated undergrad.</p>
<p>How does Stanford and Cornell compare in terms of grade inflation/deflation to very inflated schools such as Harvard?</p>