<p>kayf, I couldn’t agree with you more. It is really, really tough to help a child (or anyone, for that matter) when he doesn’t think there is a problem. I don’t drink a lot; I have a drink occasionally, maybe once a month, and a glass of wine even less frequently. H grew up in a home where cocktail hour was a daily event. I used to think because of genetics son was more prone to addiction, but my superachieving daughter has no interest in alcohol (or a very limited one). </p>
<p>I hope more schools are taking the approach that binge drinking requires counseling not incarceration, loss of funding, etc.</p>
It sounds as if this student is rebuking Matthew’s parents for, specifically, not exposing him to alcohol before going to college. I’d be very surprised if his parents, particularly his mother, who is a physician with knowledge of college life, hadn’t discussed alcohol use openly and frequently before their son left for school.</p>
<p>I don’t really see the parallel with abstinence education and sexual activity. (Maybe because I see sex as something of a biological imperative :), while alcohol use is not.) </p>
<p>On the “knowing your limitations” argument – doesn’t every health course (mandated in our state) and every driver education course teach the effects of alcohol, its differing impact by gender, weight, strength of drink, time period over which alcohol is consumed, etc.? Can’t that establish limitations? I mean, we’re talking about intelligent people here. Does someone have to down a pint and get sick as a dog to realize, “Nope, that’s beyond my limitations – not gonna do that again”? Because how many binge drinkers continue to do just that? Many folks may say that classroom education won’t do it - but the number of falling-down-drunk college students demonstrates, to me at least, that drinking to learn your limits isn’t any more effective.</p>
<p>Marian makes an excellent point in saying “it is unclear whether anyone realized that Matthew was in such bad shape as to need medical help”–all too often, even well-meaning friends can assume that dangerously intoxicated friends, who may actually be in slipping into a coma, just need to sleep it off.</p>
<p>As mentioned in the article, the mother of the student who died is a professor of medicine at Stony Brook and has joined with them to spearhead something called the Red Watch Band movement, which is aimed at training peers to assess alcohol emergencies and summon professional help before it’s too late; see [Red</a> Watch Band - Helping to prevent toxic drinking](<a href=“http://www.stonybrook.edu/sb/redwatchband/]Red”>http://www.stonybrook.edu/sb/redwatchband/) and [Red</a> Watch Band friends don’t let friends get too drunk - USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2009-06-14-redwatchband_N.htm]Red”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2009-06-14-redwatchband_N.htm). This mother’s efforts to channel some of her grief into trying to prevent other students from meeting her son’s fate seem to make the personal attacks by some of the commenters on the Daily Northwestern site particularly loathsome. I also know the family personally, and can assure you they did everything any of us can do both to model and to talk about responsible drinking behavior with their college-bound children. </p>
<p>Many universities are considering adopting this program–though NU doesn’t seem to be one of them–and I think some sort of harm-reduction approach is desperately needed. I believe every dorm in the country should have a poster saying something like, “Friends don’t let friends die of alcohol poisoning,” and explaining exactly when and how to seek medical aid without fear of repercussions.</p>
<p>When my daughter did the alcohol awareness online course before going to college, there were questions that you couldn’t answer accurately if you didn’t drink alcohol at all. She doesn’t drink, and she found it necessary to give false answers. Weird. You think they would at least consider the possibility that some students don’t drink.</p>
<p>As for the red cups, I think one problem is that they are too large to contain a “standard” serving of any alcoholic beverage except beer. But often, they contain other drinks.</p>
<p>I’ve never heard this one. Please explain. </p>
<p>Red cups (or any cup) is usually full of “punch”. It would be better to say, “Don’t drink the punch” The punch is made with fruit punch and everclear liquor - tastes sweet and masks the alchohol, so kids get trashed before they know what hit them.</p>
<p>At UT, the fraternities are no longer allowed to serve punch or to buy kegs - so no cups.</p>
<p>edited to add: Kayf, you are my hero A voice of reason!!</p>
<p>Helicopter, even when other kids realize someone is in trouble, they are afraid to call 911.</p>
<p>Two incidents from my D’s HS. One senior girl got drunk and passed out. Friends afraid to call 911. INstead, they call another kid who hadnt been drinking, got her to meet them all at park, and the nondrinkers call 911. Now the passed out girl is OK, but they must have lost about 1/2 an hour cleaning up etc before calling for help. Second incident. Girl gets drunk at party and passes out. Friends put her in car to take her home. No seatbelt. Car gets hit by truck. Girl in hospital and misses a semester. Girl OK now. </p>
<p>My point --even when teens try to help a friend, when they are afraid to call 911 it can get worse. Telling them to help a friend will not work unless WE, THE ADULTS step up and gets laws changed. The time is now.</p>
<p>At school events, a favorite teacher of my D’s would always tell her not to drink the punch. As school ended, he once again reminded her not to drink the punch. </p>
<p>The alcohol discussion at UVA was very frank and candid. I appreciated the specific examples the Dean gave to show situations students found themselves in and how his office worked with them to help them, not punish them. I’m not deluding myself that my D won’t ever get drunk but I hope she’ll keep making the smart choices she’s made so far.</p>
<p>No, I wouldnt set up my D with a sexual partner. BUT – if she needed medical attention of any type related to sex, EVEN IF THE RESULT OF POOR CHOICES, I would help her get it NO QUESTIONS ASKED. I would focus more on helping her getr better and less on punishing. If she need counseling to help her make better choices in the future, I would help her get it. And that is what I think most student health centers do. And what they should do for alchohol also.</p>
<p>The ‘blame’ here is squarely on the shoulders of the ‘adult’ 19 y/o student - not with the parents, the college, or the other students. I’m sure that if he’d been given a test on the dangers of alcohol earlier that day before he started drinking he would have passed with flying colors. The problem is that having the knowledge and then having the self-control and making the appropriate decisions (especially after they have a few drinks in them) are two different things. </p>
<p>Even having some experience isn’t a panacea so the idea that letting them have a drink or two at home with the parents right there will prevent them from over-indulging when caught up in the college drinking party hoopla when being egged on by others and ‘everyone else is doing it’ just doesn’t hold water. I’m sure that there are plenty of examples of students who died in this way who in fact, did have prior experience drinking - probably almost all of them.</p>
<p>Some students have their own desire to become inebriated or whacked out on drugs and some students are easily swayed by others and unwilling to stand up for themselves and say ‘no’ when being coerced. I’m sure this kid drank all of this alcohol willingly - stupidly perhaps, but willingly. People do stupid things all the time including people of that age and sometimes those stupid actions have dire consequences.</p>
<p>If they’re adults and you want to blame them, then they should be adults and be able to go into a bar, where there will be owners/bartenders/bouncers who will have a legal and financial incentive to call 911 if there is a problem. And friends who won’t have to worry they will get busted if they call 911.</p>
<p>OUR laws, not allowing drinking at 18, have driven drinking undergrad, and have created more problems. We have created the worst of all worlds. </p>
<p>When I was in college, yes the drinking age was 18. If frats wanted to have an open party, they did so, but were required to have supervision. They were required to clearly label what was alchohol and have non-alchohol bevs available. There was a lot less binging as I recall, and guess what, if there was, there was an adult there to handle it.</p>
<p>My heart goes out to the parents who formed and maintain MADD – and I certainly support zero tolerance for drinking and driving. But they have created a monster moving the drinking age to 21. Its time to decriminalize and help people.</p>
<p>I agree with the tone that most people are taking on this thread.</p>
<p>In general I give my daughter a lot of latitude, I think it’s important for kids to have freedom. She’ll make mistakes and hopefully she’ll learn from them.</p>
<p>That said I make sure she understands what alcohol poisoning is. It’s a separate issue from whether she should drink and at what age and under what circumstances. No one should ever binge drink because it could result in alcohol poisoning. That’s what is so tragic about this story, the whole thing was so preventable.</p>
<p>Binge drinking and drunk driving, they are two things you never do because it just isn’t worth the risk.</p>
<p>I am in 100% agreement with Kayf comments including the MADD comments. I think the first step to some sanity on the issue is to clearly separate the drinking and driving issues. We also need to take a hard look at how some states handle underage drinking and the context of what is permissable and at what age. Not allowing kids to drink in their home in the presence of their parents (illegal in our state) is a gigantic miss and a part of the law some normal law abiding parents ignore. Penalizing kids who call for help is ludicrous. Something is so very wrong with what is happening these days with kids and alcohol and it’s time to get the collective heads out of the sand. You can educate and model all the best behavior in the world and it won’t change the fact that we’ve created a situation that isn’t working especially on college campuses where you have a mixture of kids ranging in age from kids that are 18 to well into their 20s.</p>
<p>I think that the recent grad quoted by the OP is a moron. I agree that if the deceased student had been given a quiz on alcohol and its dangers he probably would have passed. He made a bad choice, and unfortunately he paid for it with his life. Blaming his parents is wrong and uninformed.</p>
<p>I also believe that the point of a 21 year old drinking age is not to keep 20 year olds from drinking - it’s to keep 16 year olds from drinking. Since most teens have some friends who are slightly older, it’s easy for a 16 year old to find an 18 year old to drink with. A drinking age of 21 keeps a wider margin between the “adults” and the kids.</p>
<p>BUT… I think that something along the lines of a graduated drivers’ license is needed for alcohol. For example, at age 19 perhaps it should be legal to purchase beer or wine for consumption in a restaurant or bar, or to consume it on private property if someone else bought it. It should not be legal for 19 year olds to transport alcohol for consumption elsewhere, so they wouldn’t be able to buy it in a liquor store. That would help to keep it away from the teenagers, and keep it illegal for 19 year olds to throw keggers in the woods. But they’d be able to have a drink or two with friends at dinner or a sporting event. This would hopefully encourage responsible drinking, and discourage illegal drinking. Of course, drunk driving laws would still apply, and restaurants and bars that serve intoxicated people would still be liable for the results.</p>
<p>Lafalum, I think there are lot of possible ideas – I would support being able to drink at 19 and at least 6 months after HS graduation to try to keep the older kids from the younger kids. Am open to your ideas. But I also support no punishment for calling 911.</p>
<p>It’s possible that the deceased student didn’t know what alcohol poisoning is. In theory I don’t have a problem with the drinking age being lowered. The only issue in my mind is that if I remember correctly when they raised the age from 18 to 21 in the 1970s the number of drunk driving deaths went down significantly.</p>
A voice of reason!!</p>