Better teach your child to drink...

Parent Cafe
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<p>if he or she is thinking about Northwestern U. There's a disturbing article on the Daily Northwestern site about a freshman who died there of alcohol poisoning a year ago: NU</a> could face suit in Sunshine death - Campus, with a long list of even more disturbing comments. like this one:</p>

<p>"I do not think that the bulk of the responsibility in this case lies with Matthew, fellow students, or the university, rather his parents seem to be the most liable for his tragic death. It is parents' responsibility to prepare their children for college... academically, emotionally, and mentally. Part of that responsibility is making sure your child is prepared to live away from home, make important decisions on his/her own, and face the realities of modern college life. One of these realities is the abundant availability of alcohol on most every campus across the country. No matter a University's policies, what type of alcohol training students undergo during orientation, or a given student's circle of friends, parents must make sure that their child is prepared to deal with alcohol and to know their personal limits prior to sending them away to school. As a recent graduate I can say, based on first hand experience, that the students who got into the most trouble with alcohol were those whose parents didn't help them learn to be responsible drinkers prior to college. It sounds like Matthew falls into this category, and his parents are at fault. Matthew's mother seems especially liable given that she is both a medical professional and works on a college campus. She should have known the realities of college life far better than an average parent, and it was her responsibility to prepare her son (just as she probably took him to Bed Bath and Beyond to buy door supplies, and reviewed his college applications). Had she upheld this part of her parental responsibility her son would have probably met a very different fate."</p>

<p>The story seems sordid and sad and both students and administrators distressingly callous.</p>

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<p>I’m sure that student’s comments brought the family much solace in their time of great need. If I could send a message to the generous soul who wrote such a touching remembrance it would be “Timing is everything, bro…and yours sucks.”</p>

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<p>What disturbs me the most is that Northwestern doesn’t seem to have an amnesty policy for underage students who call for help for another underage student who is dangerously intoxicated. </p>

<p>On the other hand, it is unclear whether anyone realized that Matthew was in such bad shape as to need medical help. So maybe an amnesty policy would not have been useful in this instance.</p>

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<p>Sounds like an abstinance vs. safe sex argument applied to alcohol. </p>

<p>However, I am pretty sure it’s not typical for kids at Northwestern to die of alcohol poisoning. If it were, you’d have heard of more in the year since this one. No need to attack the University because one of its students did something stupid.</p>

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This kid must be on something himself. That, or else I’m on something. In fairness to parents everywhere, there’s nothing in the manual about teaching kids how to drink, which this student apparently considers a parental responsibility. Whenever this topic comes up, I wonder - was I really supposed to sit down with my 16 y/o kids and pour them shots while they established “their personal limits”? Or was I supposed to make sure they could drink “safely” with their friends by permitting to them to attend parties where alcohol was served, but where designated drivers would handle the driving or parents would take the car keys until the next morning? Was I supposed to host these parties myself? </p>

<p>I believe in having frequent, detailed discussions about alcohol while kids are growing up. I believe in parents modeling responsible alcohol use themselves. I believe in observing the law, even those I disagree with (I do support lowering the drinking age to 18). I don’t believe in keeping kids on a short leash, but I do believe in assigning consequences for behavior that’s out of line. If my kids had wanted to learn their limits in high school, they’d have had to outsmart me to do it. And although all of them are smarter than I am, none of them thought the potential consequences were worthwhile.</p>

<p>I don’t expect that a majority of kids will abstain from alcohol while they’re in college - but I’d rather see an 18 y/o making decisions about alcohol than a 16 y/o. If it’s somehow better for a 16 y/o to start drinking, would 14 be better still? How about 11?</p>

<p>I can’t imagine anyone being insensitive and callous enough to blame the parents for a death like this. What an idiot.</p>

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<p>This is actually something I’ve wondered about recently. When I went to college, the drinking age was 18. I had been drinking since about the age of 16 and knew how many beers it took to make me tipsy, buzzed and flat out drunk.
My 17 year old daughter has never had alcohol (and no, I’m not delusional - she and her friends identify with the “straight edge” movement), other than when we’ve allowed her a sip of wine or champagne in our home, and I do worry that she’ll get to college and have no idea how many drinks it takes to get drunk, should she choose to drink some time. </p>

<p>I think the student who wrote that comment is insensitive and wrong, but, I have to admit, I do worry about this with my daughter and have talked to her about it.</p>

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<p>"No matter a University’s policies, what type of alcohol training students undergo during orientation, or a given student’s circle of friends, parents must make sure that their child is prepared to deal with alcohol and to know their personal limits prior to sending them away to school. As a recent graduate I can say, based on first hand experience, that the students who got into the most trouble with alcohol were those whose parents didn’t help them learn to be responsible drinkers prior to college. "</p>

<p>Ridiculous. Parents don’t have to break the law and give alcohol to their kids to prepare them for college. Some students really do choose not to break the law and drink. Some students also don’t view drinking to drunkenness as fun. </p>

<p>H and I are social drinkers, but never gave our underage kids alcohol nor did we expect or encourage them to drink underage. We did talk to both of them about the dangers of alcohol abuse and drug use. We started educating them on this when they were preschoolers via a film designed for young kids.</p>

<p>Older S as a high school student was far more rigid than H and I were when it came to drinking/drugs. He thought that people who broke the law and did such things deserved to be jailed, something that H and I thought was inappropriate and narrow minded. That S went off to college, fell in with an older crowd, and got heavily into the partying life, something that he appears to be out of now at age 25.</p>

<p>Younger S decided on his own that he would never drink or use drugs. His idea of an enjoyable party is one in which people play music and play games. He is now 21 and does not drink – totally his choice. He says he doesn’t see any reason to bother with alcohol. I have been with him and other adults in drinking situations including at a bar and S was happily sipping soft drinks.</p>

<p>IMO any parent who thinks they can teach their underage kid their limits by giving them alcohol and thereby protect their kid from alcohol poisoning is kidding themselves. Someone who’s drunk isn’t going to have the good judgment to stop drinking. One’s limits also can vary based on how much one has had to eat, what the drink is and another factors. </p>

<p>In fact, right here on CC, we had a sad example of a student who thought they knew their limits. A couple of years ago, a CC member who was a freshman at Cornell bragged about how he knew his drinking limits. Several parents vainly told him that his binge drinking was dangerous.</p>

<p>A few months later, the student – Matthew Perlstone – died of alcohol poisoning while visiting a friend at U Virginia. Google and you’ll find details of his tragic death.</p>

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<p>So what exactly are the parents supposed to do: force their child to down beer until they get drunk and then record how many drinks it took? Other than simply telling their child to drink responsibly, and maybe giving them a pocket breathalyzer which I doubt they would actually use, parents really don’t have much if any control over their kids’ alcohol consumption. Rather than blaming the parents, the university should offer the standard consolations to the dead student’s family. This is a base and ignorant way of attempting to avert blame, and any validity of their argument is negated by their superior tone and obnoxious irrationality. Seriously, what kind of argument is it that the mother should be blamed because she’s a doctor? It’s that kind of nonsense throughout the article that makes it ridiculous.</p>

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<p>The “recent graduate” speaks with all the authority of a teenager, and we all know how much water that holds. </p>

<p>That being said, there is a way to teach kids to handle alcohol, and it’s not through pouring drinks down their throats. It’s a way that we teach our kids lots of things: modeling responsible behavior and talking about it at the time (without lecturing). A kid sees adults get sloppy but sees that his parents don’t; a kid sees a parent refusing a drink because “I’ve had enough” or because “I’m driving”; a kid hears parents talking to each other or to other adults about responsible drinking, behavior they’ve seen with others who got drunk, ruined lives, which one will be the designated driver if they’re going out (don’t kids always listen better when we’re not talking directly to them?); a parent tells a kid, “I stopped drinking the other day because I could feel a change in my balance, and didn’t want to get drunk.” All these things, plus the conversations we have directly with them, can lead to an attitude of responsible drinking, of accepting at least intellectually that there are limits and what to look out for physically to determine if he or she has reached those limits.</p>

<p>Will that immunize our children? Of course not. Can they still become a casualty of alcohol? Of course. But it gives them a fighting chance.</p>

<p>And by the way, I have little doubt that the parents in this case did all those things. How does the “great authority” (the recent graduate) know that they didn’t?</p>

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<p>There is currently a bill in New Jersey, which if enacted, would provide that if someone calls 911 for assistance with a drunk person, no arrests will be made. We need legislation like this in every state. No one, certainly not young people, should be forced to make a decision to help someone at the price of a criminal charge. </p>

<p>My heart goes out to teh parents.</p>

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<p>I agree with kayf. Sometimes I really wonder about the laws in this country. They often abandon common sense. For Heaven’s Sake, why should young people (or anyone) have to choose between saving a life and saving their own butt/future? </p>

<p>1) Alcohol consumption is a problem on college campuses. Look at the example that is set by the adults who tailgate during football season. 2) I think the alcohol awareness courses are helpful, but each student has to make the choice for him/herself. 3) Let’s face facts, how many of us have tested the limits of our own alcohol tolerance? Probably during the college years? 4) I had my DS read this thread and the attached article. We have talked ad nauseum about drugs and alcohol. It’s now up to him to make wise choices. 5) I hope we can put laws on the books everywhere that allow save-a-life calls for help with drug/alcohol overdoses.</p>

<p>Such a waste of a life. My heart goes out to Matthew’s parents.</p>

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<p>I couldn’t help but laugh at this. Usually the roles are reversed in these situations.</p>

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<p>So sad, tragic for the parents and such insensitive remarks to make at such a time. However, I do believe that parents need to teach their kids how to drink. Whether or not we as parents choose to believe it, most older teenagers and college students in this part of the country (New England) actively drink. We start serving wine to our own kids at 16, at special dinners, in our own home only. We talk all of the time about strategies for parties where kids are drinking- hold one beer all night, avoid red cups etc etc. As a result, our kids are open and honest about who is doing what, and which parties they would like to attend and which ones they would like to avoid. I hope that this open communication prevents tragedies in my own home, but there are no guarantees.</p>

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<p>“Avoid red cups”???</p>

<p>I’ve never heard this one. Please explain.</p>

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<p>My son has a real problem with alcohol. He’s not of age and he chooses to hang with other students who also have real problems with alcohol. As in, it’s not a good weekend unless there’s alcohol involved. My d, on the other hand, has only had an occasional glass of wine with dinner. I think what she’s seen of her brother has been enough to turn her off. What happened to this child is probably my own worst fear- that my son is dead because of alcohol poisoning. </p>

<p>The Dean of Students at UVA gave an interesting talk for the parents about the alcohol culture of the University and what they were doing to combat abuse and not encourage, but develop healthy drinking habits. I don’t think there’s a magic answer or solution to binge drinking; there are some individuals who are going to have that propensity regardless of what their parents taught them or didn’t.</p>

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<p>NSM, “red cups” are pretty prevalent at college parties (and unfortunately some HS ones as well)- it’s how they serve the alcohol- those red Solo cups.</p>

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<p>D never drank in HS so i was worried about this at college. I asked her just to wait till college and she did. She did the required alcohol awareness course before her frosh year. First month into school she was telling me about kids being carted off to the hosp weekly with alcohol poisoning. She called me at 2am one night asking what to do for her friend who only had 2 drinks. Well turns out the 2 drinks were red cups that were half vodka!!! ( the course said a drink an hour but didn’t say how much alcohol is in on drink!) I tried to reinforce the don’t be afraid to call for help but truthfully, the kids are still afraid. Not for what the school will do but for how the other kids view someone telling on them. I don’t know how they change that. I didn’t want my kids to have a sip in hs but truthfully I look at it differently now. I think they need to learn drinking in moderation because once they get to college they don’t know how. The courses didn’t help. They did the test without really even reading or understanding them. For me the key is to be accepting they will do this and make it easy for them to talk you about it. I just try to give my kids as much info as possible without making it sound too nagging. D has told me she’s only had a few sips a few times at a party just to look like she’s fitting in. She says she didn’t even think she felt the effects from it. She’s terrified to ever throw up and terried to lose her scholarship if she ever gets caught drinking under age. They are going to drink and it’s way more prevalent than I ever imagined. I think the key is being open, honest, accepting and informative.</p>

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<p>red cups are banned on D’s campus. So now they just use blue ones…</p>

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<p>I think it’s the same as the safe sex vs. abstinence argument. From what I read of the OP’s quote (and I admit I skimmed), the poster never asked parents to actually let their kids drink, but rather, to teach them about drinking - especially to teach their kids who to recognize their limits and give them a sketch of what each amount of alcohol may do. Like the above poster, the best way to help teens is probably to be “open, honest, accepting, and informative”.</p>

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<p>I think we need to have punishment fit the crime. Underage drinking should not result in jail time, loss of scholarchip, imho. If it were up to me, anyone at drinking party should get written up for a non-descript “dorm violation - noise, etc.” and be put on detail to clean up campus following weekend. And if it were up to me, anyone who calls 911 for a kid who needs help should go to head of lottery list for housing the next year.</p>

<p>We have turned what should be a medical problem, a physchological problem, a social problem, and even an economic problem into a legal problem and it hasnt helped.</p>