<p>In crime NB is urban. It has a large poor population and parts are as gritty as any big city.</p>
<p>related thread here by the OP- <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-confidential-cafe/1191016-new-jersey-colleges-princeton-review.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-confidential-cafe/1191016-new-jersey-colleges-princeton-review.html</a></p>
<p>FYI the background of the OP’s question is understanding why NJ-ers don’t choose NJ schools…the OP is not seeking advice for his S/D who is already attending college out of state.</p>
<p>Barrons: I lived adjacent to New Brunswick for 10 years. I lived in Irvington for a while in my youth, so I have a skewed idea of what gritty is ;)</p>
<p>I fully realize that rankings and ratings can often be controversial here on CC. In spite of that, I think many parents use them to varying degrees. With that in mind, I thought it interesting to look at how some of the NJ colleges are ranked.
Forbes (combined National Universities and LACs)
2 Princeton
142 Drew
174 TCNJ
266 Rutgers
358 Seton Hall
383 Stevens Institute of Technology
475 Bloomfield College
488 Rowan
520 Rider
528 Montclair State University
552 New Jersey Institute of Technology
585 Fairleigh Dickinson</p>
<p>Here are ratings from US News.
National Universities
2 Princeton
68 Rutgers
88 Stevens Institute
132 Seton Hall
138 NJIT</p>
<p>Liberal Arts Colleges
94 Drew</p>
<p>Washington Monthly National Universities
31 Princeton
52 Rutgers
166 NJIT
177 Seton Hall
220 Stevens Institute</p>
<p>Washington Monthly LACs
105 Drew
121 Bloomfield College</p>
<p>I think that the U.S. News ranking of Rutgers makes sense, as does Stevens, NJIT & Drew. I have a personal bias against Seton Hall that is long standing so I think their place on the list is flawed. Washington Monthly’s rankings have something to do with measuring social mobility and service; frankly I don’t know anybody who would rank Bloomfield College that high on any type of academic merit. </p>
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<p>Going back to the original question: I don’t think it’s so much a practical or measurable reflection of them “being bad.” Kids want to get out of NJ in a way that I don’t see here in TN. I am FB friends with a good # of NJ kids (primarily the girls in my old girl scout troop) as well as with my kids friends here in TN. There is a sociology dissertation waiting to happen just by analyzing the differences in statuses from geography to geography 
There is a lot more anger, angst, pent up woe in NJ vs. where I am now. Why wouldn’t you want to leave a place where your parents complain about: traffic, taxes, job loss, state government cutbacks, high tuition, road tolls, bad weather, etc. Then the kids older than you who do go to the schools in state are complaining about: parking, traffic, buses from campus to campus, etc. There’s kind of a culture of complaining (and I for one used to be a master of it!)</p>
<p>The kids who go to in state unis/colleges here are generally more upbeat about them when they report back to the kids back home: OMG! having fun! Classes are good! Participating in that! But the general attitude here is more positive anyway.</p>
<p>It’s my t-shirt analogy: when we first moved to TN, I was quite taken with the line of “Life is Good” t-shirts. I’d never seen them before & I thought they were fun & had a great message. Next trip to NJ I saw that there was a “knock off” brand of t-shirts that were selling well with the line “Life Sucks.” Different place, different attitude. Not wrong, not worse, just different.</p>
<p>Yes, there is definitely a culture of complaint here. Where I grew up it was considered poor manners to complain. In New Jersey, it’s poor manners not to.</p>
<p>There is a t-shirt I’ve seen in the malls that says “New Jersey: Only the Strong Survive.” That about sums it up.</p>
<p>^^^Dh has that t-shirt but it continues to say “and the weak get eaten.” He doesn’t wear it out around here. I have the mug that says: Jersey Girl: All Attitude, All the Time ;)</p>
<p>“In your face” should be the state motto and I mean that in a good way. We knew we were waiting for our plane back to Seattle when two obvious Seattlites tried to correct our place in the boarding line. I was a little too take aback to use my best NJ response-“*** are you saying?”</p>
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<p>Agreed. I can’t believe any ranking that would put Bloomfield above Rowan, Rider, Montclair, NJIT and FDU. I would have to put Caldwell and Centenary above Bloomfield. Bloomfield’s middle 50% SAT scores are 380-450 for CR and 380-470 for math.</p>
<p>My H was looking to go to Rutgers for grad. school. The department in which he was interested is very well respected. However, they put a lot of restrictions on how he could do it. He was working full time (as he had done all through undergrad) and they would not allow that. Fordham welcomed him with open arms and gave him an amazing Jesuit education and experience. He is very grateful it worked out that way.</p>
<p>We spent a lot of time on the Rutgers NB campus while D was growing up. She wanted no part of having to deal with the city and the bureaucracy.</p>
<p>Ramapo is a popular destination for the vals from our rural HS. Apparently they get a very good deal there.</p>
<p>^^Completely agree with kitty56 regarding rankings.</p>
<p>Have worked at a few of the colleges mentioned here. Bloomfield certainly isn’t ranked that high by USNWR; it does a credible job of educating students who show up with less than stellar educational and social support. It’s Computer Arts and Technology Program draws students from other states. There’s some good stuff happening there, but i don’t imagine it will work for many CC parents.</p>
<p>Seton Hall, when I taught there over a decade ago, seemed dominated by mid-level preppies who wanted a name private and could pay for it. I actually didn’t much enjoy working there; it was a year before the fire, and my good students complained about the apathetic party atmosphere and made plans to transfer. It may be different now.</p>
<p>Am teaching at Montclair State now, and am very impressed with the students. Might not be top ten percent, but strong, engaged students I am enjoying getting to know. A lot of good students who might have gone out of state are vying for spots in-state. The campus is absolutely gorgeous–they’ve really turned it into something impressive.</p>
<p>I’ve worked longest at BC, and those students have a special place in my heart, but MSU has really won me over as well.</p>
<p>Overall, I agree with those who say that Rutgers is under-rated; but I must admit, for my kids, the campus structure is what turned them off–the whole buses everywhere vibe. But many of their best friends got great educations there. TCNJ too, but lately our HS seems to have tipped from good students going to TCNJ, to more going to RU.</p>
<p>and as far as game day–I see big red R’s on cars and trucks everywhere I go in the state; there is a lot more football pride than there used to be.</p>
<p>In my day, 80’s, Montclair was better then many North Jersey schools,don’t think thats the case any longer…Ramapo was not in Montclair’s status in the 80’s, now Ramapo is a beetr school…fwiw,i attended Montclair in the 80’s and loved it</p>
<p>@Garland</p>
<p>“I see big red R’s on cars and trucks everywhere I go in the state; there is a lot more football pride than there used to be.”</p>
<p>I too feel there is a growing sense of pride in NJ with Rutgers. Those big red R’s do appear to be far more common. But is it for the college in general or just the football program? What happens if the football program continues to drop off?</p>
<p>Good question. Dunno. I’m hoping they join the Big 10, then I can go to football games and root for UMich, while my D’s SO roots for RU. Family fight! :)</p>
<p>garland: interesting that as an educator your opinion matches mine from a (former) student perspective. My 2 years at Seton Hall (1982-1984) made me realize the importance of fit in a college: I was protesting in NYC on the weekends and my classmates were politically apathetic; I was driving my 72 Cutlass S while they were driving their brand new cars that they got for graduation. </p>
<p>I loved my time at Montclair State. My department (Broadcasting) had excellent professors and the Speech & Theater Dept. (which Broadcasting used to be part of but they’re listed separately under College of the Arts now) is still well regarded; I was surprised the first time I saw it chatted up here on CC. One of my college buds is teaching Biology p/t at MSU now; his f/t gig is at a big pharma co down the block.</p>
<p>qdogpa: I wonder if our paths ever crossed over greasy pizza in the Rat ;)</p>
<p>For information
The State of New Jersey’s Commission on Higher Education reports ([NJ</a> Colleges & Universities by sector](<a href=“http://www.nj.gov/highereducation/colleges/schools_sector.htm]NJ”>Untitled Document)) that NJ has: 3 public research universities (Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey, New Jersey Institute of Technology, and the University of Medicine & Dentistry); 9 state colleges and universities (The College of New Jersey, Kean University, Montclair State University, New Jersey City University, Ramapo College, Richard Stockton College, Rowan University, Thomas Edison State College, and William Paterson University); and 14 independent four-year colleges (Bloomfield College, Caldwell College, Centenary College. College of Saint Elizabeth, Drew University, Fairleigh Dickinson University, Felician College, Georgian Court University, Monmouth University, Princeton University, Rider University, Saint Peter’s College, Seton Hall University, and Stevens Institute of Technology).</p>
<p>The best class i ever took in college was at Montclair St ,it was Introduction to Jazz, taught by Chris White…originally thought it to be a blow off class, but it taught me to LISTEN to music…and i found a new appreciation for music,stuff i thought i liked,i started to not like, and music i disliked, i learned to love</p>
<p>I know Chris White–he taught at BC as well for many years (I taught his kids, too, a long time ago.)</p>
<p>Edit–well, not really “know”–worked in different areas. More like “met”.</p>
<p>Wow, small world…i couldn’t name one other teacher/professsor i had in college, and i remember Intro to Jazz…learned to listen to the instruments in the music and seperate the sounds…i must have been in his class in the mid 80’s…i returned to school as a person in their mid 20’s to finish my degree</p>