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<p>I do not think it is as easy as that. My son is Hispanic and grew up with these kids. Now, after three years in a richer suburban high school, I wonder, if even he has the skills to survive in tuff schools like these. In addition, you have to realize that people cannot just pick a public high school they want to attend. So, parents would have to live in these communities too.</p>
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<p>Good one, so do three years at a low performing high school, then come to a high performing school for the final year after finishing all the difficult classes? lol. How would that help?</p>
<p>We all have opinions on whether affirmative action is needed today and if it serves a social good. But isn’t this irrelevant. The bottom line has to be whether affirmative action is constitutional or not. One has to decide what the following words mean.</p>
<p>“No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”</p>
<p>Regardless of how the Supreme Court has interpreted this clause in the past, can state universities have racial preferences or quotas without contravening the intent of the above sentence.</p>
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<p>Maybe in 1984…but certainly not as much 10 years later. Recalled several HS teachers/GC saying in class/GC session that someone scoring in the 1100 range as usually corresponding with a B-range student at an academically mainstream high school. </p>
<p>At my HS, students with an 1180 would usually be in the bottom quarter/fifth of our class in terms of scores and GPAs. Considering that and the cutthroat atmosphere there…someone with a score below 1300…or more so…an 1180 would be wise to keep that to him/herself to avoid embarrassment and sometimes verbal bullying from the a^&&^le contingent among the popular/academically top 25% kids.</p>
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<p>Wouldn’t have worked at my urban public magnet. One can only apply for entrance to enter as a 9th grader or 10th grader at the absolute latest. If you waited beyond early fall of one’s 9th grade…the ship has already sailed and left you behind at the dock.</p>
<p>Her scores aren’t very good. In fact, they are average at best and her case doesn’t draw any sympathies from me. Now had she had something along the lines of even 1300, then we’d be talking. Sounds like this person is just mad they didn’t earn their way in. Instead of blaming others, she could work a litter harder. There simply isn’t a spot reserved for her. There never was.</p>
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<p>According to recent Common Data Set information, 47.9% of UT freshman are white/non-Hispanic. That almost exactly mirrors (slightly exceeds) the distribution of whites for all ages in the general population of Texas. Hispanics comprise 21% of freshmen; African Americans 4.5%; Asians 18.3%. The distribution in the general population for all ages is 35.7% Hispanic, 11.4% African American, and 4.6% for Asian + Native American + Hawaiian combined.</p>
<p>So, the 10% rule notwithstanding, Hispanics and AA students are still underrepresented at UT Austin. Asians are greatly overrepresented, and whites are about rightly represented. Strictly by the population numbers, that is.</p>
<p>“So, the 10% rule notwithstanding, Hispanics and AA students are still underrepresented at UT Austin. Asians are greatly overrepresented, and whites are about rightly represented. Strictly by the population numbers, that is.”</p>
<p>Nobody is “underrepresented” or" overrepresented" in we look at each as an individual person.</p>
<p>TheBigD – I suspect that UT does not want to raise that issues. From the pleadings, which I admit I have not read thoroughly, they seem to be sticking on the need for AA. If they try to ding the plaintiff, they may very well be asked the SATs of all groups of accepted students. My guess – the minorities admitted under the Ten Percent Rule may be suprising to some, and may lead the court to say enough is enough for AA.</p>
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<p>I understand, but my question is, why would anyone who wanted to game the system in Texas, ever want to be on that ship? As far as I can see, it is better to abandon that ship asap, if the goal is to get into UT.</p>
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<p>What makes you think only minorities admitted under the ten percent rule may have questionable SATs? Recalled several previous commenters mentioning that rural White working/lower middle class Whites in poor school districts also benefited so much from this rule that their legislators will fight to keep that policy.</p>
<p>Is the present 10% rule considered Affirmative Action? I keep hearing some posters asking if there is need for “additional” AA?</p>
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<p>Quite right, my Hispanic son who should make National Merit semifinalist and takes a very rigorous courseload will not be getting auto admit to UT, because he is not in the top 10%. The 10% rule is a class based not race/ ethnicity based AA program in my opinion.</p>
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<p>While trying to address AA goals may have been one of its intents, I’d doubt the 10% rule would be considered an AA policy as it is supposed to be applied regardless of the race of a given applicant. If you’re ranked in the top 10% of your high school graduating class…you’re automatically admitted regardless of the high school, race, etc of that student.</p>
<p>Cobrat, my point is if UT starts impugning the stats of the plaintiff, as many here have done, they may be asked details on their admission stats, which I do not think they want to give.</p>
<p>IMVHO, fresh air is the best disenfectant, and there should be disclosure.</p>
<p>^Personally, I believe it is possible she might be very disappointed, because it is quite possible UT is admitting URMs with stats like my kid’s, using holistic admissions for programs that the average top 10 percenter URM is not qualified to tackle, such as engineering, computer science, mathematics, bio/ chemistry and physics etc.</p>
<p>kayf, UT hasn’t hid any stats–as a public institution operating under a statutory scheme, you can imagine there are stats galore. If you want to know about SAT scores of URMs, you can get a start by looking at the annual Top 10% report (which I previously published in post 32): <a href=“http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/HB588-Report13.pdf[/url]”>http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/HB588-Report13.pdf</a></p>
<p>But this case is not about Abigail Fisher and her stats. She is just a convenient plaintiff. All they needed was one white applicant denied admission from the “holistic review” pool. </p>
<p>Here is the “QUESTION PRESENTED” to the Supreme Court:</p>
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See opinions and briefs here: [VPLA</a> | Fisher vs. Texas](<a href=“Home | Legal Affairs”>Home | Legal Affairs)</p>
<p>And yes, the argument is that “diversity” is produced by the demographic results of the (unchallenged) race-neutral Top 10% path to admission; therefore, UT should not be allowed to consider race in the secondary “holistic review” path to admission.</p>
<p>Thanks TXArtesmis, Just as I thought, the non 10 percenters actually have higher SAT scores and GPAs.</p>
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<p>If that is the case…it wouldn’t be much of a surprise considering those stats…even assuming her SAT was pre-1995*…would have made her admission to SUNY Binghamton …my state’s premiere flagship back then quite iffy. And SUNY Bing…while decent…is no UT-Austin even back then.</p>
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<li>Recentering after 1995 and changes to the SATs makes that score less impressive than its pre-1995 counterpart…and that’s assuming that 1180 is combined just for verbal and math.</li>
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<p>perazziman, not to derail this thread on personal stuff, but trying to compare your son’s admission chances to Abigail Fisher’s is not apples : apples. There are tons of Abigail Fishers every admission cycle–she was iffy from the git-go. Your son, by contrast, is going to be NMSF, and both schools will be keenly aware of the rigor of his competitive HS, which places his rank in context. Without consideration of his URM status, your son is almost sure to be admitted into both engineering schools, and because TAMU gives way better “goodies,” including National Merit/other monies, he should strongly consider TAMU his academic and financial safety–he needs one, even if he’s hell-bent on leaving Texas! (Sorry about that, dad; mine were, too!)</p>
<p>(I know you cited some anecdote upthread about a NM kid who wasn’t admitted to UT–I’m not saying you are wrong, but as long as I’ve been following UT admissions, I’ve never seen such a dramatic result and would be shocked if it happened on a “proper” application. I am guessing that applicant didn’t follow the deadlines and requirements to the “T”…because UT’s process is different than the Common App, many high stats kids who intend to go out of state but use UT as safety get tripped up over the deadlines and requirements! One of my kids’ best friends was NMSF and had to appeal his way into UGS from CAP because of a really stupid error, when instead, he could’ve/should’ve been honors all the way.)</p>
<p>Perazz, I see you edited your last entry. The non-10% African Americans submitting SATS indicated a total of 31, with 10, or 1/3 being below 1490 (for 3 parts). Based on the plaintiffs two part score of 1180, it would seem at least 1/3, or likely more of the African American students accepted had scores below the plaintiff.</p>
<p>So the people dumping on the plaintiff, for her being so obviously non-qualified, then what is to be said about the non-10% AAs admitted?</p>
<p>Tx- thanks for link</p>