My daughter is applying to a number of school for engineering. Most of our Florida (home state) schools are safe schools for her. All the other schools are reach schools because her SAT score (2120 old score) is on the low side for those schools. They are Duke, Princeton, Columbia, Johns Hopkins, etc. She’s also applying to Georgia Tech and UT of Austin, I think they are reaches also but not as much as the ones just listed. She has a 4.0 GPA / 4.98 HPA, 12 APs and 8 college courses. We will not qualify for financial aid but schools like Duke at $71K are too much of a stretch. We can probably reasonable manage up to $50K a year. My understanding is that she’d most likely get merit aid at schools where she is bringing the average up which isn’t the case with her list. She gets stressed and I hate how miserable she is. I don’t think it’s a great idea for her to go to an Ivy or Duke where every student is a alpha dog / student. On the other hand, others might argue that it’s better to be challenged than at the top of your class. I would love to hear people opinions on this.
For my D17 big fish is better for her confidence, for sure. She was one of the brightest kids in her magnet gifted program in elementary, but she didn’t feel that way. By late elementary she was suffocating. We let her change schools and she blossomed. She is now a happy, high stats kid. She doesn’t have an interest in even applying to HYPS type schools, which is fine with me. She will be fine wherever she goes. I have 2 younger kids at the same magnet elementary now. My younger son definitely reaches more when he has accomplished peers, so it will be interesting to see how he grows up. But for D17, big fish is better for her, which is way better for my pocketbook anyway since she qualifies for great aid at lots of good schools. For engineering, tippy top schools aren’t going to mean that much of a leg up anyway.
Really she just needs an ABET accredited program. There are lots of more affordable options. Convincing her may be trickier…good luck.
Columbia for engineering isn’t the best choice. As @slaudsmom said, as long as the program is ABET accredited, her education will be fine. Engineering in and of itself it a demanding major (both of my sons are engineers) so if she won’t do well in a a potentially intense environment, she should rethink her list. Sounds like she may do better as the top of the middle than the middle of the top. That said, please don’t focus largely on her standardize d test scores. The schools you mention use a holisitic admissions approach. Is she interesting in many other ways? Can she put together a strong application? And if she ends up at UF, it’s an excellent engineering program and she will be fine.
For my S, slightly big fish is good for his confidence but keeps his ego in check. It’s a balancing act. He has a great work ethic and loves learning so he will make the most of any school he attends. He has an unfortunate tendency toward being a know-it-all so he needs regular reminders that other people are also smart, but he also likes being able to help his classmates when they ask. He’s had some classes in which he was far above average and it didn’t work out well; he was bored and became insufferable in his arrogance. He’s done best in classes where he’s at or close to the top but not by much. I think he’d do all right anyplace where he’s in the top half, but would be very stressed if he had to work harder than others just to stay afloat and might become an arrogant jerk if he’s too far above the average.
Thanks for the laughs @traveler98. I think my daughter would do best in the same position but she likely doesn’t see it the same way (based on her list). She often thinks she’s “not smart enough” and for that reason, I think being in a school with a bunch of kids who got 2350s on their SATs their first sitting might be too much.
@jym626 It’s hard to me to answer honestly because I’m her Mom and biased but she’s very involved in a particular organization at school that puts on proms for kids who missed their proms due to life threatening illnesses, mostly cancer. She had a good friend who had cancer (survivor) so it’s near and dear to her. She’s also a very strong singer as she attended a middle school and high school of the performing arts in our area and has performed (with her chorus not solo) at many conferences as well as a big international festival. She is putting together an arts supplement. She’s a scuba and free diver (60 feet!). The feedback on her essays has been extremely positive and she’s put a lot of time and effort into them. So I think she’s interesting in many ways but who knows what the admissions officers will think.
There are plenty of students who can ace a standardized test but who may not be great critical thinkers in the classroom or may be one dimensional. That’s exactly why these schools look at kids holistically and your dau sounds very interesting, with a variety of interests and talents. There will be bright kids at less-than-tippy-top schools, and she can seek them out. Encourage her to have a balanced list of likelies, matches and reaches. Currently it sounds a bit top heavy.
@jym626 Thank you. Personally, I’d like to see her in an honors college. She runs with a very academically agressive crowd and I think that is influencing her because everyone is applying to big name reach schools.
@968Mom …does she want to STAY academically aggressive?
I have a kid who wants to stay with kids who enjoy learning and want to do well. But she is tired of the race. I think she will thrive at a school with an honors college. She doesn’t want to constantly feel like she needs to be doing more and more.
She’d likely get merit aid at RPI and it’s a great school for engineering, especially undergrad, excellent reputation in the industry. Challenging academics but easier to get into than Duke, Princeton. They have a high boy/girl ratio which makes is easier for girls to get merit. Nerdy student body. (My D is a sophomore engineer there)
Another fun school to add is WPI. They may be generous with $ They developed the Segway there.
Apologies for adding another reach school to the list, as this is antithetical to the discussion, but Rice is fabulous.
@insanedreamer Many years ago, my Dad used to teach ROTC at RPI and I’ve also heard it’s a great school with merit opportunity. This is going to sound silly but she’s a south Florida kid who is also cold all the time. And to put it in perspective, she had her room heater (yes, she owns one) on all throughout the summer and we keep the AC at 78 so it’s not a meat locker in our house. In fact, we are taking her to the dr. just to make sure something isn’t going on there. For that reason, I’m trying to stay NYC and south. I think upstate NY would be too much for her weather wise.
If she can handle downstate NY weather, she can probably learn to tolerate upstate weather (well, skip Buffalo!!)
If she stays as an engineering major she will have plenty of challenge and smart kids around her. Furthermore honors often doesn’t exist for engineering majors. Many honors colleges offer seminars in multidisciplinary subjects which are great for the liberal-arts students but seldom meet the ABET requirements for an engineering degree.
DS#2 was in an honors program at his college, but when he changed to engineering he dropped the honors program.
If she likes warm weather then I’d recommend Rice as her reach school over Columbia or Princeton. A terrific school for engineering - better than Columbia and arguably on par with Duke - and great student body.
Agree, @insanedreamer (see post #10 
). Actually, especially when it comes to the range of options in engineering, Rice exceeds Duke.
I’m a huge fan of honors programs, but make sure to do your research - it can be difficult to fulfill both engineering and honors requirements in 4 years, since Honors at some schools adds additional courses to the general Core requirements and Engineering doesn’t leave a lot of wiggle room for additional courses.
S was targeting merit aid so looked at many good schools with accredited engineering programs that aren’t high profile enough to get a lot of love on CC. It’s very true that no matter where you go, engineering is going to have strong students and typically on the higher end for the school overall. S is very happy being the “big fish in the small pond” but having a strong peer group between Honors and engineering.
Also double check between an honors college and an honors program. They are not the same
If you have run the Net Price Calculators for her potential reaches, and you know that they aren’t affordable, why are they still on her list? Have you spoken clearly with her about the money issues?
It will not be easy to get 20k in merit aid to bring the cost of a 70k school down to the 50k you can afford. Verify that merit scholarships in that range really are available before she drops all that application money on the places on her reach list.