<p>p’girl,
This kettle readily admits a fondness for schools with the best blends of great academics, great social life and great athletic life. And this pot also acknowledges a desire and an ongoing effort to include more colleges around the USA in the CC conversation. If that’s my perceived agenda, then I guess I’m getting somewhere. But this thread isn’t about that, so I’ll stop here. </p>
<p>sam,
I’m not so good about animals and how they hunt, but in the wilds of CC, I can attest to the fact that the wolverines hunt in packs.</p>
<p>No! Please re-read again. You first made the comment at post 70, with the word “against” above, in the context of saying that Hawkette had a consistent bias against Michigan. Hawkette then copied your quote in post 71 and inserted the “for” in the context of indicating that you, rjkofnovi, were consistently for Michigan. I copied THAT quote - Hawkette’s, post 71 – and then said pot / kettle. Clear now?</p>
<p>^^^^Yes I am clear now. I have hawkette on my ignore list so my comments towards her are just what I read from others responses. Since I started doing this months ago, I find my enjoyment of reading post on CC has grown tremendously. Now I only have to concur with other posters without getting annoyed terribly.</p>
<p>“I agree that the Big 10 is arguably the best academic Division 1 conference in the country (all institutions are members of the AAU, a prestigious association of research institutions, and the CIC, a research consortium plus the University of Chicago that is similar to the Ivy League). The reasons why some of the Big 10 schools (except Northwestern and Michigan) are underrated on CC is because most high school students prefer to attend schools on the coasts (West Coast, East Coast). The Midwest is considered “flyover country” despite the fact the Big 10 provides excellent educational opportunities.”</p>
<p>I completely agree. The main reason why Northwestern and Michigan receive the most attention of the Big 10 is not only because they have the best academic reputations…but also because the percentage of out-of-state students in those schools are significantly higher. In comparison, a school like Illinois, Ohio State or Michigan State focuses a lot more heavily on in-state students (with out-of-state populations of under 20%). Other Big 10 schools with higher out-of-state populations are still strongly midwest-regionally-based (with very few out-of-state students from the West and East coasts), so you tend to hear less about these schools in general if you are from the West or east coasts.</p>
<p>Hey, the Big 10 is great, but let’s not get carried away. It’s arguably best in athletics maybe but not in academics. The Ivy League is Division 1 you know. I think the <em>lowest</em> ranked Ivy on USNWR is what? 15th? 16th? At least half of the Ivy league is in the top 10.</p>
<p>Most high school students on CC are from the coasts and therefore prefer to attend schools on the coasts. That’s very different from saying that “most high school students in general” prefer to attend schools on the coasts. I assure you, there are plenty of kids in the midwest for whom New England isn’t on their radar screen any more than Iowa is on the radar screen for the kids in New England.</p>
<p>The difference is, when it’s a kid from the east who wants to stay on the east, it’s “natural” but when a kid from the midwest wants to stay in the midwest, it’s “provincial.” LOL! </p>
<p>When a school from the east wishes to attract more applicants from elsewhere, it’s diversifying, but when a school from the midwest wishes to attract more applicants from the coasts, it needs to just shut up (the reaction to Wash U is proof of this).</p>
<p>rjk,
LOL. I can just picture you gritting your teeth and saying to yourself as another hawkette post or thread goes up on CC, “I know what I know and that’s what I know and quit confusin’ me with all of those dang facts you keep posting. It’s annoying to keep seeing information that might challenge my way of seeing things.” </p>
<p>fa-la,
I think it might surprise some that most of the public Big Ten schools have arelatively high percentage of OOS students. Private Northwestern obviously has the most, but 5 of the 10 State Us have pretty high levels when compared to publics around the USA and 2 more have decent levels. Only Ohio State, Michigan State and U Illinois are laggards in this regard.</p>
<p>% OOS , College</p>
<p>75% , Northwestern</p>
<p>39% , PURDUE
37% , U IOWA
35% , U MICHIGAN
34% , INDIANA U
32% , U WISCONSIN</p>
<p>26% , U MINNESOTA
25% , PENN STATE</p>
<p>11% , OHIO STATE
8% , MICHIGAN ST
6% , U ILLINOIS</p>
<p>Frankly I say the lower the chatter on the forums and the longer the coasts fly over the midwest the longer all the really excellent colleges and universities will stay less competitive and less expensive. And Pizza, as usual your points above are excellent. Of course I birthed S1 and S2 who can’t leave the midwest fast enough but I am whispering into S3’s ears after he falls asleep Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, Purdue etc. etc. etc.every single night. He’s already playing high school football so I may luck out and maybe their will be a new coach at UofM by the time he graduates LOL.</p>
<p>Hawkette has yet to address Michigan’s PA rating of 4.4 which is higher than that of Northwestern. The schools she calls Michigan’s peers have much lower ratings.</p>
<p>In all sports EXCEPT for football. So in reality while the Ivy League is in Division I for most sports, they cannot be truly called a complete Division 1 conference.</p>
<p>I think we can all agree that Michigan is an excellent school and has a considerable crowd of CC fans. </p>
<p>
The Ivy League is D I for football. It’s simply D I-AA instead of D I-A (or whatever it’s called these days).</p>
<p>Good grief. I dream of a day when a thread about public universities will not become ALL ABOUT BERKELEY or ALL ABOUT MICHIGAN. Many UCB and Michigan posters are as quick to denigrate other publics as others are to put down UCB or UM. :mad:</p>
<p>Subdivisions in Division I exist only in football. In all other sports, all Division I conferences are equivalent. The subdivisions were recently given names to reflect the differing levels of football play in them. Additionally, some sports, most notably ice hockey[8] and men’s volleyball, have completely different conference structures that operate outside of the normal NCAA sports conference structure.</p>
<p>Judging from the number of responses to this thread, I think it’s safe to say that Big Ten schools in general are not lacking for attention.</p>
<p>Of course, as with other school rivalries, the various partisans then begin to argue the merits of their chosen school. Much of it pointless and nearly always harmless, but did see a dispute that caught my eye:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Seeing as how I just was looking at the NRC rankings last week, I revisited to see exactly how the two schools compared. The results? Both have 38 (of 41) rated programs, tied for second behind Stanford (40). Michigan has a 7.24 nonzero score (12th among all schools and 3rd among publics), with a 6.71 average for all scores (3rd among all schools and 2nd among publics). Wisconsin has a 6.95 nonzero score (15th among all schools and 5th among publics), with a 6.44 average for all scores (5th among all schools and 3rd among publics).</p>
<p>As for comparing discipline by discipline, neither school offers religion. Michigan is also missing oceanography and geography, while Wisconsin is missing aerospace and biomedical engineering. Of the remaining 36 disciplines, Michigan is ranked higher in 13, Wisconsin is ranked higher in 11, and 12 are even. In general, Michigan is stronger in Arts & Humanities, Engineering, and Social & Behavioral categories (though Wisconsin has at least one department ranked ahead of Michigan in each broad category), while Wisconsin is stronger in Biological Sciences and Physical Sciences & Math (with no higher ranking Michigan departments).</p>
<p>The verdict? These are two really good schools! If you’re one to follow these rankings, Michigan has a slight overall edge, but it’s very department specific, and the statement that “Michigan is rated higher in the vast majority of them” is not supported.</p>
<p>Using that fractured logic then Big 10 can’t be called a complete Division 1 conference either. Because some of the sports they compete in are club sports at the Big 10 school but NCAA Div. 1 sports at other schools. An example is Crew (rowing) - Michigan competes in Crew as a club but Harvard competes as a Div 1. school. In fact Harvard was NCAA champion a few years back. I don’t think there is any conference in the country that is a <em>complete</em> Division 1 conference - fielding Div. 1 teams in all NCAA sports.</p>
<p>Using that fractured logic then Big 10 can’t be called a complete Division 1 conference either. Because some of the sports they compete in are club sports at the Big 10 school but NCAA Div. 1 sports at other schools. An example is Crew (rowing) - Michigan competes in Crew as a club but Harvard competes as a Div 1. school. In fact Harvard was NCAA champion a few years back. I don’t think there is any conference in the country that is a <em>complete</em> Division 1 conference - fielding Div. 1 teams in all NCAA sports.</p>
<p>If Michigan had an NCAA rowing team, it would automatically be a Div. 1. Nothing Harvard could do would make their football team Div1-A. That’s my point.
Football is the only exception.</p>
<p>I’m going to start a new thread-- what school boosters take over any thread in which their school is named and just won’t stop til all posters have cried uncle?</p>
<p>Yeah, well Harvard does have an NCAA football team, and it is automatically a Div. 1 also. As has been pointed out, the NCAA Div 1 has two subdivisions - 1A and 1AA. Both of them are Division 1. Michigan and Harvard are both Div.1 in football - different subdivisions but the same Division. Too bad about Michigan rowing…</p>
<p>the thing that’s called hawkette has a particularly annoying trait, that i’ve observed. he’s not just a someone with a personal vendetta against Michigan. He actually goes out of his way to create multiple threads over and over during a long span of time, similar in method to communistic brainwashing. See there’s something very powerful about this method:
Many posters over time have pointed out how hawkette’s wrong, and we have all at one time or another pointed out his lack of understanding of basic statistics, and he will often conduct random arithmetic to arrive at her desired conclusion. When we point these things out, she simply goes away for a few days, comes back and creates another thread, and hundreds, if not thousands of high school kids will see it AGAIN. It’s almost like she has her own ranking, aimed at bashing the elite publics, and a marketplace, and unlike usnews, her ranking gets published weekly!</p>