I have talked about my kids on threads in the past and I saw something different when my family attended a college fair recently. My African American son’s stats and resume are very good (3.84 UW GPA, 35 ACT, great AP scores, SAMS Scholar, with some leadership, lots of volunteer work, and just started working for a tutoring service). He gave a copy of his resume, transcript, and standardized test scores to some of the schools he wanted to check out and he was treated like a recruited athlete. My daughter stats were similar enough 2 years ago (3.96 UW GPA, 1470 SAT (680 EBRW/790 MATH) with lots of ECs and volunteer work), but she received nowhere near the reception that my son received at the same college fair. She was a better overall high school student, and her resume was almost as good (My daughter’s resume was better besides him getting in SAMS) and schools were definitely interested, but some college representatives were literally begging my son to apply which never happened with my daughter.
Why? Has the college landscape changed that much in 2 years? I have seen that there are fewer African American male students with top stats than African American females in my area, but was that the reason for the aggressiveness of some of the college representatives? It actually made me slightly uncomfortable, although it is nice that people want him (and gave out some application fee waivers). This college fair had mostly SEC flagships, smaller state schools, some smaller privates and some HBCUs from across the Southeast, so maybe it would have been different with higher ranked schools in attendance.
For colleges that factor URM into the admissions equations, finding a qualified AA male is like finding the Willy Wonka Golden Ticket. Not that qualified AA females are a dime a dozen, but they are not as rare.
Men are a minority in college now, so your son was doubly attractive: a URM and a male URM.
That’s my guess! But it’s certainly interesting anecdotally!
It could be that or it could be something in the way they present themselves to strangers that you as a parent don’t note.
Or it could have simply been that college fair.
His stats are probably a little better than hers but I don’t think that’s what people respond to in these circumstances.
There could also be that gender bias (nothing to do with race) that made your D seem pushy but your S seem confident.
I would say as a parent, you should be proud that he comes across as poised and likeable (beyond his stats). My guess is that this is what people respond to.
No idea about the answer to your question, but with stats like that and a SAMS scholar as well, start running the NPCs for each of the top 20 schools because your son will have multiple acceptances should he choose to apply.
It’s pretty well known that more women attend college than men. I don’t see any surprises with what you experienced. A high stats African American man is going to have plenty of great choices come decision time. Your daughter will probably do well too, so don’t worry.
First off let’s congratulate the parents with two very accomplished children. Secondly, now he knows where he stands. Let him use that to his advantage! ?.
Does he have an idea of what schools he wants to apply to? It will get confusing fast when all these schools are throwing application vouchers at him.
If possible I would make a list of schools that he’s interested in prior to these fairs THEN keep an open mind to other schools also.
I just remember coming home with my kids from these fairs just overloaded with information and forgetting who said what about what programs… Lol. Maybe Dad takes notes while your son looks at the schools.
LOL… ?
Males have an admissions advantage at a lot of schools where keeping a gender balance is endangered. Statistically, when the unbalance shifts too fat, applications, students accepting, selectivity starts to suffer. Not always, but often enough for some schools. Females also do at schools where they are a URM.
We have associated the term URM with black, Hispanic, Native American and other minorities of color, but the term holds for any group that is underrepresented and that underrepresentation results in a bit of an advantage in the admissions process Asians are URMs at some schools. Males, Females, coming from certain countries, cultures, all can fall into that category.
Black males are URMs at a number of schools even as they are very common at a number of others.
We will see how Golden it is for his current 3 reaches (Not sure how much SAMS will help him with CMU at this point although he did very well there this summer).
What’s weird is my son is an introvert that still sometimes struggles to engage people in an one on one setting which may be his downfall, while my daughter is literally a pro at being engaging. But my son did do a better than normal job for him at eye contact and communicating at the college fair.
I have run some NPCs in the past and the costs (12-15K for HYP and around 21K for most of the others) were manageable, but I suspect that it may be a little lower with a 2nd kid being in college.
@Lindagaf I was just surprised at the level of aggressiveness by several college representatives which I have never seen up close. I would think that in a college fair setting, they would try to get all students to apply.
He has a list of really only 8 schools and he has let family add another 2 to be nice. His current list is Howard, Georgia Tech, Morehouse, LSU, North Carolina A&T, Hampton, Carnegie Mellon, Alabama A&M, and Tuskegee (visited all of them). Family has added Harvard RD (cheaper than in state costs) and UC Berkeley (starting up new program for the class of 2024 modeling famous Meyerhoff Scholars Program which will hopefully have a scholarship component). I am not sure if he will add any other schools or not at this point as he has quite a few schools offering fee waivers and he is still looking at schools but the schools listed above are locks. He has his mind set on Morehouse/Georgia Tech 5 year dual degree program for computer science and computer engineering, but he knows that costs will play a factor in his final choice as my wife and I will insist that the final costs are at an acceptable level (21K or less).
Sure, they want all kids to apply, but your son is a rare and coveted jewel in their eyes. What college doesn’t want to snag that jewel? Your daughter is also a jewel, but maybe your daughter is just a ruby, while your son is a diamond.?
Seriously, just go with it and milk it for all you can. If your kids play their cards right, they could both be looking at some very tempting offers.
MIT should be on that list in my opinion if he is already considering CMU for computer science/engineering.
I know Berkeley very well, although not that particular program, and my gut feel is that it could be very isolating for a black STEM student. Just my opinion.
Based on academics alone, non-legacy and non-athlete black students with your son’s credentials see admit rates to Harvard of around 40-45%. These numbers of course include all who identify as African American, including females and recent immigrants from Africa and the West Indies. As your son was chosen for SAMS based on superior academics plus other holistic criteria, I’d estimate your son’s chances at Harvard as higher than those figures. Maybe also submit a recommendation from a faculty member with whom he worked at SAMS.
Nice school list. My son was like your son. Just more practice meeting people and shaking their hands and looking them in the eye. I told him it was practice for later on in life. College changed them also. We don’t even really recognize who my son is now compared to the introverted high schooler. He’s introverted no more. I think boys tend to be slower growing out of it then girls…
@ChangeTheGame , I too am the parent of an introvert. A socially capable one, for sure, but definitely an introvert. While I have often worried that this is a liability in our culture, feedback over the years has included "good listener, respectful, humble, pleasant ". His accomplishments coupled with this demeanor could be very attractive. This was what I meant about you, as a parent, not necessarily being able to judge how he comes across to strangers. (And to extend it to the gender bias, it could be mousy in a girl.) But it’s possible that the aggressive come-on relates to his not seeming so “look at me”. So everyone is now shouting “we see you”. Without knowing your kids, it’s impossible to say, but it sounds like folks want to be sure that this “aw shucks” kid doesn’t sell himself short.
It’s easy to attribute what happened to a single factor, but in reality, it’s the whole package. He sounds lovely, btw!
You really can’t figure this out based on 2 separate college fairs. All sorts of different variables could have factored. OP likely isnt aware of differences in staffing, different crowds, timing, and more.
Stay rational. Wishing you great results, but he has yet to pull together his app pkg, there’s a lot we others don’t know.
There may also be the additional factor of your son’s higher test score. 35 ACT is supposedly equivalent to 1530-1560 SAT, while 1470 SAT is supposedly equivalent to 33 ACT. Those colleges that heavily weight test scores (which are the most heavily weighted part of admissions selectivity in USNWR rankings) may be more attracted to your son’s higher test score.
Note that there is no need-based FA for out-of-state students at UCB, except for those who get a Regents’ scholarship. So he would be aiming for Regents’ scholarship (or Meyerhoff scholarship it is has a similar or higher monetary award), rather than just admission.
UCB also has two ways to study CS, if that is his intended major. The EECS major in the College of Engineering is a more difficult admit than general school stats suggest, but is direct admission to the major. The L&S CS major is not direct admission, and L&S is the largest division. However, students entering L&S need to earn a 3.3 GPA in the first three CS courses to declare the L&S CS major.
Strong agree with @skieurope but a little surprised at the degree compared to your D.
Looking at the strength of your son’s stats he should be competitive at most/all schools he applies to (although UWGPA sticks out a little). SAMS at CMU is a great differentiator since not too long ago expressed interest was taken into account at CMU. BTW, for CS students, getting into CMU SCS would be pretty hard to beat. Looking purely at CS programs I’m wondering why his reaches (in addition to Cal), don’t include MIT and Stanford? GTechis great, and Harvard continues to grow their program (they have the $$)
Unless you’re applying to a tech school, I believe guys get a bump over girls. Add to that, an AA male vs. an AA female, the guy is going to do better. As others have noted, take advantage of that.
You may be right as most of the staffing has changed and the crowds were a little smaller this year, but I should note that I have been to that particular college fair provider at different locations 12-15 times over the last 5 years. And I only compared the 2 particular college fairs because it was at the same location, at the same time of the year, with mostly the same schools attending and my kids had the same documents.
Yep, that is the only way that UCB would be an option.
The main reasons for my comparison is I have watched both throughout their academic careers and my daughter has always just been a better student and while my son has closed the gap a lot in the last 12 months, he is still not the student my daughter was at the same point. But he has come a long way and has worked hard to be the best kind of student that he can be which is all that I have ever asked.
He looked at CalTech and MIT hard (he has talked to Reps from both schools), but decided that he wanted some parts of the traditional college experience that he might not see at those schools although he liked both schools otherwise. We have mentioned Stanford, but my son is just not interested which he has not really explained. I chose Harvard as my pick for application over Stanford because the NPC calculator liked Harvard more than Stanford:) He did some cutting edge stuff at CMU for an high school student (worked in a group as the primary coder on a virtual reality project) and got an A in the Math class that doubles as dual enrollment credit so he knows he can compete, but he is slightly worried about the same issues he has with CalTech and MIT.
To be honest, I am much less worried about my son’s college application season than I was when my daughter was applying 2 years ago, because her lack of expenses on my household has given my son more options.
Have you run the NPC on Tufts? If he’s going to consider/visit Harvard, Tufts could be worth a look as well. They have a diversity fly-in program that he could still apply to https://admissions.tufts.edu/voices/voices-home/
Rice is another excellent CS/EE school with very generous financial aid, a diverse student body, and an undergraduate social experience that can be particularly great for introverts on account of the highly inclusive residential college system. The deadline for their SOAR diversity fly-in has already passed, but it could still be worth considering if the NPC stacks up.
The Morehouse/GT program does sound very appealing in that he’d get the HBCU experience and the elite STEM school experience. The caveat is that the majority of intended 3:2 students (generally, not Morehouse/GT in particular) don’t end up following through, often because it’s hard to leave the “3” school with only one year to go, and because financial aid at the “2” school often isn’t as good as hoped. Morehouse and GT are so in such close proximity, though, that it might help to alleviate some of the social barriers to continuing in the program, if the money aspect works out. It does have a very best-of-both-worlds appeal!