<p>a friend of mine who has a parent that works at US News mentioned to me that penn is most likely going up to 3rd tied with yale...</p>
<p>who cares about public prestige...it's all about what the people who will hire you know and I can guarantee you that all worthwhile employers know Penn. so who cares what the public thinks you'll come out of penn, get a good job, and if you're in wharton retire by the time you're 40, lol.</p>
<p>3rd eh? Wow...</p>
<p>For those who can't be bothered to check the US news website, their methodology is as follows:</p>
<p>Peer assessment 25%
Student selectivity 15%
Faculty resources 20%
Graduation and retention rate 20%
Financial resources 10%
Alumni giving 5%
Graduation rate performance 5%</p>
<p>explanation of categories here:</p>
<p>As you can easily see:
1) Wharton per se doesn't have anything to do with the rankings.
2) The only "perception" based item is "peer assessment"</p>
<p>And lest anyone forget: overall rankings have NOTHING to do with the quality of any given department and the personal "fit" of the school. </p>
<p>As always, YMMV</p>
<p>It is clear why certain people refuse to accept that Penn is a top school: jealousy. They can't accept the fact that Penn is as good or better than they are.</p>
<p>Or can't be bothered to realize that Penn has improved incredibly over the past few years.</p>
<p>About the third with Yale, I'm not too sure about that. Penn's overall rating was a 95, to Yale's 99. It may be possible if Yale's overall rating dropped, though.</p>
<p>Peer assessment 25%
Student selectivity 15%
Faculty resources 20%
Graduation and retention rate 20%
Financial resources 10%
Alumni giving 5%
Graduation rate performance 5%</p>
<p>As flawed as the USNR rankings may be, they do take into account the most important factors. Penn ranks so well in the peer assesment category because of its stregth in categories 3, 4, and 5. Unfortunately, a great number of students on this board feel that scoring perfectly on category 2 is the only way to deserve a top 10 ranking. Some people never grow up i guess.</p>
<p>According to one critic, a professor at U of Texas, Penn is ranked high because it cooks the numbers.</p>
<p>"Penn is a very good research university, to be sure, one of the top 15 or so in the nation, on a par, more or less, with UCLA, Wisconsin, Texas, Cornell, etc. But how did it get ranked 4th for undergraduate education? It certainly has a better student-faculty ratio than state research universities like Wisconsin and Texas, but that's not why it's ranked 4th. It's ranked 4th because they cook the numbers, plain and simple (as a former Penn Dean said to me a few years back, "I'd hate to be around if they ever audited the books"). That started with former Penn President Judith Rodin; whether Amy Gutmann will continue that "tradition" remains to be seen. For a variety of reasons having to do with the ranking criteria, the undergraduate rankings are even more subject to manipulation through creative accounting and outright fraud . . . ."</p>
<p>Why does this conversation end up always going in the same direction...Penn is cooking the numbers, etc? Nobody has to go to Penn if they don't want to. Like it or not, Penn is an Ivy and always will be. Penn must be doing something right to be able to stir up so much controversy. Would this conversation be started if Penn was ranked #10? The top 20 are still considered the most prestigious in the nation. I admit it, I am guilty of inquiring about Penn's prestige, but it's not because I am questioning it or doubting it. It's just for friendly debate.
Pennstergo, are you attending Penn?</p>
<p>After reading Pennstergo's all forty something posts, I have come to the conclusion that he just has a chip on his shoulder against Penn.</p>
<p>Everything is either talking about the crime is high (compared to living in suburbia your whole life), the area stinks (which is stupid, as philly is a great city), or how it doesn't compare academically to other institutions (again, stupid).</p>
<p>Penn has changed dramatically in the last ten years, and especially so in the last twenty. It deserves its rating.</p>
<p>Penn is a great school, but does anyone in the world really think it's superior to Stanford or even MIT?</p>
<p>Really, nobody here has a right to compare universities. Have any have you been to Penn MIT or Stanford for more than a few weeks or months? Have you taken classes (not just sit-in), talked to professors (not just at orientation), and seen at least three-fourths of the campus? At all three? If someone here has, then I'll be glad to give consideration to their opinion.</p>
<p>Rather, for most of us, our opinions on who should be ranked higher stem mostly from newpapers/magazines we have read and opinons from people in our community.</p>
<p>Penn is ranked number 4 by people who have done extensive research on the topic, and as criticized as their work is, the biased opinions of young jealous prestige whores of CC will not be given higher relevance.</p>
<p>When you're comparing schools that high up, you really can't say "superior" to any one of the to another. </p>
<p>It's more of a "different" factor. The top twenty institutions are all comparable academically, and thus it all comes down to personal preferance, really. To put it in terms that College Confidential posters will understand, it's like either getting a 99.1% on a test or a 97.1%+2 points extra credit. They're both the same grade, but slightly different in their method of approach.</p>
<p>2 quick comments:</p>
<p>1) Penn's biggest weakness is in resources - our endowment is <em>much</em> smaller than that of HYP.</p>
<p>2) Lots of people would pick Penn over MIT or Stanford depending on their desired major. For Classics, my major, neither school is particularly good. Heck there are cow colleges in the midwest (spoken respectfully - I went to one of 'em years ago) with better Classics departments than Stanford.</p>
<p>As always YMMV</p>
<p>Exactly. Who cares if Penn is "really" superior to other schools. Go where you want to go. I am getting my degree in economics and Penn (or Yale) would be better suited for that major than other schools I was accepted into (Hopkins, Georgetown, Tulane, etc.), but also I want to attend an Ivy for my own personal reasons.</p>
<p>Penn is a great school, but does anyone in the world really think it's superior to Stanford or even MIT?</p>
<p>AceRockolla, tell me why you think these 2 schools are so much better than penn</p>
<p>Wharton kick ass 'nuff said</p>
<p>Pennstergo, please provide a link.</p>
<p>Penn is superior to Stanford and MIT. MIT is a TECH school, so is Stanford.
Stanford has close 50% studentd fron CA. 1/3rd of it CA applicants( which are 10000 out 19000) are UC Berkeley rejects. Close to Palo Alto/Menlo Park, there a good prep school, Menlo School. At Menlo Sc, 2002-2004, UCB got 62, Stanford got 40 and IVY including penn got 80. So even in CA where 60% of Stanford Applicants come from, Berkeley and IVY Beats Stanford. Stanford based on 50% CA class is basically weat Coast IVY like NW is for mid west.Penn only takes 15% PA get more from west.</p>
<p>If you take away CA applicants, West Coast Applicants and International applicants, Stanford only gets 5000 from 250mm population. So it is a regional school that too a good. But it does not have appeal like IVYs to make kids leave home and travel far. Even MIT is better at that( 20% West). They should change SF name to University of California at Palo Alto or Leland Stanford Jr College.</p>
<p>baba, I love Penn, but even I'll admit that Stanford is overall a better school (but not by much). It's main reputation is probably as an engineering school, but its also top notch in economics, marine biology, medicine, business (graduate), and a bunch of fields in between. Most people admitted to both Stanford and Penn would probably go for Stanford. I'm glad I didnt get into Stanford, because making a decision between the two schools would have been agonizing.</p>
<p>Someone once asked a Princeton professor what the best schools in the country are. He said HYPSMC. The kid asked "What about UChicago? USC? the other Ivies?" The professor said that yes, in terms of quality of teachers and resources, they are all top notch. But the thing that sets HYPSMC apart from the rest are the students. The best of the best choose these schools over the others most of the time. That is why people say that they are the best.</p>
<p>Seems like my comment started up a firestorm of debate and Penn support. Your opinions have been very informative and entertaining. Thanks to you, I now know the real truth:</p>
<p>MIT= only for computer nerds
Stanford= junior college</p>