Bogus College Application Claims

Parents Forum
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<p>my daughter was accepted to all the schools she applied- she is a senior at a top LAC
not a leader- never team captain ( indeed the only time she was on a sport team was senior year spring semester I told her it was an opportunity she should have before she graduated)
In the musicals but never a lead- usually chorus although she was Big Jule in Guys and Dolls( the director thought it was hilarious she is 5'2")
Only time she was on the honor roll was maybe 8th gd
She did do a fantastic job of singing "Beautiful" by Carole King at graduation- even though she had never done a solo before.
She is also a great girl and I am proud to know her let alone be her mother :)</p>

<p>My recommendation?
Be yourself- that is what the schools are looking for</p>

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<p>A couple of things...</p>

<p>Marlene...I'm smiling because one of my D's wrote an essay on a similar vein. She had played soccer since K. In ninth/tenth, she was the JV goalie. She then tried out for Varsity for 11th as goalie. There was already a senior goalie on the team but in the past, they had had two Varsity goalies. Turns out, they didn't take another goalie so in essence all her training and then the tryouts were for a nonexistant position and for the first time in 11 years, she was not in soccer. Though, I must say, the coach later regretted only having one goalie. Instead, my D coached a fifth/sixth grade girls soccer team and loved it. She tried out for Varsity Goalie for senior year, rather than giving the sport up like most do once they are no longer chosen to participate. She became varsity goalie and went on to represent the school in state semi final championships. Her essay had to do with this experience of not getting to play that year and yet the great experience she had coaching girls which she would not have done otherwise and then making a comeback the next year and not giving up. </p>

<p>About leadership....I posted earlier that leadership is not always a title that you are selected for. Sometimes people lead in other ways that are not the traditional ways you may be thinking of such as team captain, class president, club president, etc. My kids, I will admit, are leader types. I think it is fine, by the way, not to be a leader type but am just saying that they are. My kids never opted to do an EC activity to "look good for college". That concept was just about foreign to me until I started reading CC nearly 4 years ago. My kids did ECs that they had been engaged in most of their lives and were long term interests that they wanted to do even if they had never gone to college and wanted to continue even in college. </p>

<p>I can think of a few examples of leading that they did that don't involve a title. For instance, one of my kids was in the Student Senate but was not elected as an officer. She was in it all four years, though one year wasn't even elected to be a senator but chose to participate anyway. During that time, she led an initiative almost single handedly that lasted two years in which she researched and developed a new school policy and went through faculty hearings and eventually school board hearings until the school board actually adopted the policy she wrote. She then spearheaded with one other student another policy initiative that went through the hearings stage with faculty though these things drag out so long that she graduated before that one became official policy. I know that some recs even mentioned what she did and how they had never seen another kid effect change and actually do something like this at the school before. This is not an elected title or some club that basically accomplishes nothing but it is a kid working on something for two years until formal policy adoption. </p>

<p>I can think of another example. I have a kid very into musical theater. Her last two years of high school she wanted to create/produce/direct/choreograph a student run musical theater revue cabaret and nothing remotely like that had ever been done at our school before. She completely ran every facet of this endeavor and also gave all proceeds to charity. It was a labor of passion. It was quite successful and she did it a second year again. Another time she single handedly created, wrote, and produced and performed in a multi media performing arts informational event around peace and activism in our community at a local venue as she felt so strongly about policies and the war, etc. and researched it in depth and presented a power point, movie clips and perfomers on this theme. For two years, she choreographed dances for her tap dance troupe because she loves to do it and has a knack for choreography. Again, rec writers talked about all these endeavors. She mentioned them as well on apps but that was after the fact. She did these things as she is very into them and in fact, continues to initiate such things as student run shows in college and so forth. She was even selected as a Scholar when admitted to her university and leadership was one of the criteria for selection. NONE of these leadership examples were selected or had titles. None were done to get into college. All were related to lifelong pursuits and interests. </p>

<p>I hope sharing just a couple of their examples demonstrates pursuing one's passions and not for the college app, AND ways of leading or achieving that are not titles or by selection. As well, the essay example earlier is that even discussing a setback of sorts and how one deals with that and creates a different sort of success, are natural things that show what we are talking about here. They are not forced and they are not made up for the college app.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>You're right--it's easier to miss part of practice if you're a track/cross country runner than if you're the pitcher or goalie for a team. At our HS girls were usually able to combine tennis with other activities. And the other solution is to do sports in one season, the musical in another. I heard once of a kid who was both on the football team and in the band but I have no idea how he did it or how good he was at either!</p>

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<p>Colleges perpetuate and encourage these bogus leadership positions. On applications, every single one has a blank list several lines in length and sometimes even a free-form question about the applicants' leadership positions. What is the poor kid to do you has only ONE or maybe NONE to fill in? The implication of giving so much space to leadership positions is that a good applicant would have something to put in that space.</p>

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<p>It is not only the colleges that are perpetuating it, though. My son has applied for many scholarships and has gotten nowhere with any of them, despite excellent academic credentials. His passion is Boy Scouts. He has held many, many true leadership roles in his troop, is an Eagle Scout and has worked 80+ hours per week for the past few summers at a sleepover boy scout camp. I truly believe this has hurt him since the big national (ie Best Buy, Target, Coca-Cola) scholarship committees seem to reward the joiners (kids that are active in many activities) as opposed to the kids who are passionate about one or two activities. </p>

<p>To the original poster, I have come to the conclusion that so much of the college admissions process has to do with luck, especially in this day and age when kids are applying to 10-15 schools. Even with "bogus" claims, there is absolutely no guarantee that it is what the adcoms are looking for. </p>

<p>Lastly, just because a kid starts a club doesn't mean it is meaningless. My daughter is very active in an activity outside of school that leaves very little time for in school activities. She started a club which donates items to a charity. Despite very limited participation, they have made some wonderful donations to a local group home.</p>

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<p>To Ripcurl: In reference to your above response. I'm the OP. I have nothing to be jealous of. My child is an underclassman and not applying to college for some time. If you, as you say, you "don't really care" why take the time to post after reading a dozen responses? If you "don't care" I can assure you other people do, as indicated in by amount of responses. Absolutely! Padding goes on with the aquisence and the down right encouragement of coaches, parents, guidance counselors, and perhaps implicitly adcoms. And to the responder asking me how gullible I think adcoms are? Take a good look at this thread. Phony essays, fake clubs, made up ethnicity, lies about volunteer work, ... the list goes on. Most colleges have a metric which they use to screen applicants. On that metric are things such as community service, leadership, miniority status, essay writing, and so on. Can a skeptical admissions officer simply toss what he or she feels is a trumped up application on the scrap heap? No, not without first proving it is replete with lies and exaggerations. Does a busy admissions officer have time, or will he or she take the time to call a school and determine if Johnny really was the captain of two sports team, organized a can and bottle drive to benefit the poor, tutored mentally challenged children, and help to paint the church or synagogue last summer? No. Nine times out of ten Johnny will be taken at his word ... and let's face it many of these bogus assertions will be backed-up be some complicit parent, coach or GC. And as far as your assertion that it will "catch up with them in the long run" ...well maybe it will. And as another poster indicated earlier it did catch up with the Enron CEO but only after people had been robbed of thier pensions after he and his cronies padded the company's finances, perhaps much the same as he padded his college app. 35 years ago. So yeah.. it will catch up to them.. eventually. In the meantime the cost of an elite college education and the supposed prestige attached thereto has, what I have to believe are normally moral people, lying there collective butts off for admission, merit aid, or whatever. So I'm hoping someone does care and that maybe some of these kids will get torpedoed and possibly, if its proved they lied, be sanctioned in some way as regards the admission process. Perhaps with a big red letter "L" attached to thier future applications.</p>

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<p>I agree with Susan. What the ad coms are really looking for is an application that is genuine -- they probably are not at all impressed with titles unless it is very clear from the recommendation letters that the student really accomplished something in that role. The kids who have the phony credentials may believe that is helping, but I am sure that by now the ad coms have seen enough team captains to know that it doesn't mean very much. Leadership comes in all forms -- my daughter tends to be a behind-the-scenes organizer who does all the work and lets others take the credit. So no titles -- but she sure impressed the teachers who wrote her recommendation letters. Anyway, there are no awards, no titles, and yet she has managed to get accepted at her top two choices, one of which was a very big reach and the other was a super, impossible reach. </p>

<p>I think really it is more about being able to present the true accomplishments in the best and most revealing light than simply rely on a title. For example, a description such as "organized food drive for hurricane refugees, collected 6 truckloads" - is going to get the message across. The kids who have truly shown initiative and real leadership are going to be able to do that without a problem. And I also agree that not everyone has to be a "leader" -- colleges like active participants, too. When it comes down it, though, I think the really would prefer being told what the kid DID rather than seeing a title. I'd suggest an activity list with more verbs, less nouns.</p>

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<p>I agree that playing a sport(s) makes it very hard to participate in school clubs thus causing the extracurricular "list" to look very one dimensional.
My football playing S was one of four team captains last year. At our school, captains are chosen by the coaches, not players, and it is based on ability, hard work and leading by example.
Responsibilities included leading drills, calling the coin toss with the refs to start the game,making sure everybody is where they are supposed to be on the field during a game, making sure the locker room is clean ( and staying late to do it if those reponsible did not) and most of all giving 100% on the field in every game win or lose.</p>

<p>Skipping practice to attend a club meeting is not an option. If you want to start when the lights come on on Friday night then you better be there Mon-Thurs. S has never missed a practice and has started every game. It means that much to him.</p>

<p>So I hope colleges recognize taking a commitment to one thing seriously and working hard to be the best you can at it (even if you're not all-state) can be a more worthy endeavor than having your name on a laundry list of (often meaningless at our school anyway) clubs.</p>

<p>On another note, my other S(now college fresh.) dropped out of NHS his senior year because he was frustrated with the "mandated" community service hours that were required to be done with the club at set times during each quarter.
He held a part-time job(25-30 hours a week) in customer service at a local store and was almost always unavailable at the "set" times for the activities. Much of the club time was spent talking about grades (very competitive group) and getting into college, not any real interst in the community service...just had to do it because it was expected. He just wasn't into doing things that way so he quit.</p>

<p>In a scholarship interview, he found that the interviewer was much more interested in how a 18 year old came to be managing the front end of a large grocery store, supervising 8-10 people, opening/closing the store on weekends( a teen-age boy with the key to a large gro. store and the combination to the safe to put the day's receipts in after cashing out all the registers at night!) than he was in any school club memberships/positions.
BTW, he got the scholarship.
So in the end I can't see why kids feel the need to " be something they're not". I would think colleges would be more interested in "who they are" and if the college is not interested in them for that, why would they want to go there?</p>

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<p>There is a vast difference between having a title and demonstrating what you did with the title. In many high schools, the titles – captain, class president, etc. – are awarded based on a voting process where the most popular/best looking kid wins. Some kids have titles simply because no one ran against them. And there are the kids who get the job and then drop the ball completely (like the yearbook editor who got into college ED and promptly stopped working on the yearbook and never went to another meeting again).</p>

<p>If you are NHS president, and lead the club to raise more money or volunteer more hours … if you are newspaper editor and can talk about how your leadership improved the paper – then those activities and those leadership roles become meaningful. It’s the same as when writing a resume – listing a job title isn’t enough, you need to use all those active verbs that show what you accomplished. </p>

<p>I would hope that admissions officers can see the difference, although I am cynical and maybe it is a question to be asked at the next info session I go to. From all I’ve heard, just compiling a list of clubs and leadership roles is not what colleges want to see. </p>

<p>OTOH – I know HS kids who go to one or two club meetings, every now and then, and list it on their resume even though they never contribute. Like the kid who comes to theater club meetings but never tries out for a part or paints any scenery. Perhaps colleges think that kids who have a leadership position are at least one step above that kid.</p>

<p>For the kids who do put tremendous amount of energy and passion into an activity – I hope they can communicate that in their application (or through teacher recommendations) and that colleges value their efforts.</p>

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<p>MY D's university invites all comers to apply for a leadership scholarship. Her GC, at a school where they do not inflate awards, told her to apply though she had no official leadership titles, other than varsity captain...which we figured would not be that competitive. The GC told her she is the best kind of leader a school can have, she leads by example in everything she does because she always gives her best. What a sweet thing to say, what a nice way to diffuse the crazines of college apps, and....she got the scholarship :D</p>

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<p>I understand the disillisionment over kids who lie on apps and the unfairness issue. However, adcoms read a bunch on each kid. The recs, interview, resume, essays, all should line up with a similar profile. My kids' recs related to their activities and accomplishments. They had supplemental recs from those who ran those activities. If you are reading an app and find all these extraordinary accomplishments on it and nobody in the recs says a thing about them (unless you have some unethical adult that someone else here posted has lied on the kid's behalf), and the interview doesn't seem to get the same profile across, a red flag is raised. I interview kids for a very selective university. A kid can't make up to me that she is on the soccer team and was the lead in the musical and did an internship at such and such because I am going to probe and discuss these things and it is hard to weave that kind of story in such an interview. I can tell who is passionate and involved in what they do.</p>

<p>About the EC activity chart on the applications...someone was saying that the colleges have a line for "leadership" for each activity. Well, let me say as a parent of two kids heavily engaged and accomplished in ECs AND as a college counselor, there are two things....one is that that line is NOT just for "leadership" but for any significant accomplishment in that endeavor...anything of note. For instance, I have D2's little "activity chart" here from the application. 95% of what she has in that right hand column are not elected leadership "titles". She has one minor thing of being a class officer that is along those lines. But examples of things that are in that column....next to theater productions...she put in right hand column: "40 shows to date, numerous leads, NFAA Arts Merit Award in Musical Theater (that is a national award). Next to all the dance classes she lists "Jazz Repertory Troupe by audition, Tap Repertory Troupe by audition, Choreographer". Next to piano lessons, guitar lessons and Jazz band (instrumental on piano), she put on right side: "National Piano Playing Auditions, International Jazz Educators Award". next to Choir, Select Choir, and Jazz band (vocalist) she listed "All State Scholarship Award for Jazz Vocals, Regional and All States for Choir". For Voice, she listed "All State Scholarship Award for Classical Voice, VT Young Musician's Award Finalist. Next to her 8 years of Summer Theater Intensive Program, she listed: " Select Cabaret Troupe, Master Classes by selectiion". Next to Student Run Cabaret, she listed on the right: "Creator, Director, Producer; Benefit for American Cancer Society." and so on and so forth. I could dig out my other kid's little chart or one's of clients I have but this would get too long. In all cases, the right hand column had what role they played in the endeavor, any significant accomplishment, etc. They were not necesarily "leadership" or titles, etc. ANYTHING accomplished in that activity can go in that right hand column.</p>

<p>NEXT....every kid I counsel, as well as my own children, had activity/award "resumes" that were annotated. Here is where they were able to explain each endeavor and what they did in it, their contributions and their achievements. If the student led an initiative in the Senate, it was described. If she accomplished things within her three varsity sports, these were explained in context. If she tutored at the elementary school, exactly what she did there was explained. Her work experiences were described. Summer programs and what these entailed and what they achieved or enjoyed in them were explained under each entry. So, this is not some list of "titles" but rather a picture of the kid is painted in the annotated resume that would be difficult to make up. It is clear how genuine it is...they don't just list things, they SHOW things. </p>

<p>The recs talked a LOT about their heavy engagement in these activities and so forth. There was no mistaking it for a lie. If you put that next to some app that lists blah blah blah number of hours doing community service, president of such and such club and then no essays, no resume, no recs, no interview speak to these endeavors and a heavy commitment and dedication to them, a passion for them, significant achievments in them....no supplemental recs from coaches, mentors, directors, band leaders, etc., one may question the validity. Surely the depth of passion and dedication will not be apparent. </p>

<p>By the way, my three varsity sport athlete WAS in band (it is not marching band here, just concert band) and in jazz band, and in dance classes at a studio, and in musical theater outside of school, as well as held a job. The thing is, her essays painted a picture of who she was. One essay even dealt with how she juggled a life of balance between performing arts and sports and then also got into her math/science side balancing with her more creative side and it had to do with this well rounded personality (which today is considered not as attractive as she did not have just one singular passion) but a picture of a kid who had a foot and arm in several lifelong activities came out and the recs described her that way as well. You can't just make this up. </p>

<p>If you are reading an app that shows lifelong dedication to these pursuits (they listed how many total years of involvement and often that meant 10-12 years) and spoke about how they planned and hoped to continue those involvements once they go to college...even spoke with coaches, sport club team captains, or theater or dance people at those colleges about particpating on campus if they got in. Someone who just lists a bunch of clubs in high school is going to come across differently than someone who, for example, did an internship with an architect (D1 did this) who has a rec from that architect and then plans to major in that area in college, did an independent study on her transcript in that area, and talked to professors on campus on her visit in that field and writes about that in her Why X college statement, and then plays various sports and performing arts stuff and talks to people on campus who run those things and seeks ways of wanting to do them if admitted, and the recs are from high school coaches and the like and the guidance counselor also speak about how the kid stood out in athletics and the arts while also academically, yadda yadda, the teacher recs bring that up as well.....that is going to look different than just a list of some misc. stuff that doesn't relate to why they want to go to X College or that nobody else is speaking about them in this context, etc. </p>

<p>I can think of a girl I counseled last year who was in marching band. Her essays told stories about that experience that would be hard to just make up and she wrote about hoping to be in marching band at the college she went to, among many other things. So, it is not like these things are just listed on an application and that's that. Those very involved and passionate about their endeavors do come across. I interview kids and trust me, it shows. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Very informative post, thanks. Call me narrow-minded, Susan, but a lot of what you're implying should indicate "leadership" would have, in my opinion, more properly belonged in a list of significant EC's, or awards and honors. Were you intending that type of activity chart to be used to respond to a question about leadership? Different schools use different categories on their applications, but are you suggesting that if they actually ask for "leadership positions" students should expand that to mean stellar accomplishments? Is an outstanding soloist/actress/dancer a leader? For example, let's say my kid didn't make varsity capt. but made the All-State team, would I list that under leadership? It's too late for son #1, but maybe we can do better with the D#1.</p>

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<p>For my application essays, I wrote exclusively about my ECs. I don't know if this will make a difference or not, but I hope that the colleges can get a glimpse of what I had to do to earn my positions in these activities.</p>

<p>For example, I attend a military school where JROTC is a way of life. While JROTC is simply a club in many public schools, as a military school cadet, I have to wake up at 5:30 every morning and make sure my room is spotless in order to prepare for daily morning inspection. Afterwards, I have to polish my shoes, shine my brass belt buckle and then make sure all my subordinates are doing the same. This year, I am the Battalion Executive Officer with the cadet rank of Major. My primary responsibilities include designing the curriculum and the training schedule for all New Cadets who matriculate at my school.</p>

<p>I know that this type of commitment leaves little to no time to engage in activities that other kids might have the benefit of doing. Even so, I've worked my butt off in school and on the playing field (football). I've been very successful this year and was named team captain as well as being an all league pick. I don't know what colleges will make of me, but I hope that I don't get passed over for someone with a "prettier" package.</p>

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<p>GFG....on most "activity charts" on most applications that I have seen...the right hand column can be used for any significant achievement, role, contribution, etc. For instance, my D who is an athlete and her teams do not have "captains" even....listed things like "All State Championships" or "#1 one seed Singles Player" or All Eastern Championships, District Champions, State SemiFinalists, X Newspaper All Star Team, State team for J3 (that is an age level in one of her sports), Coaches Award, Wendy's Heisman Award State Finalist.....so anything to do with that activity went WITH the activity. She listed for band, for instance...All State Band, Regional Band and also Wind Ensemble by invitation. For dance, she noted Tap Dance troupe was by invitation and noted she was also a tap dance teacher for kids' classes with the dance activities/lessons. For piano, she listed achievements on piano. </p>

<p>For that matter, on her 3 page annotated resume, she lists each activity, hours per week, weeks per year, which years of high school, total number of years of participation if significant (in many cases this was 10-12 years), awards/achievements and role in that activity, and an annotation. Her academic awards and achievements were listed separately on both the application and the activity/award resume. But awards/achievements associated WITH AN ACTIVITY were listed with that activity on both the activity chart on the application as well as on the resume. I think it makes sense to note the level of involvement and achievements with the actual activity, not some place else. Then use Awards on a resume for academic ones.</p>

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<p>A clarification for GFG now that I am rereading your questions.....I was ONLY talking about the "Activity chart" on most college applications including the Common Application and not some short answer question that asks about leadership (have never seen that question). I was talking about the right hand column on the activity chart that someone posted and said that colleges even ask students to list leadership role for each activity and I was saying that that column is meant for any significant contribution, leadership role, another role, achievement to do with that activity.</p>

<p>Sorry if any confusion. i am not talking of any short answer or essay questions on "leadership". However, leadership is broadly defined and not meant to just be "titles' like captain or club president. Colleges want to know in what way a student has contributed to the activity, roles played in that activity, possible leadership, achievements. I outlined in previous posts that there were ways my kids "led" that were not elected titles....be it creating and directing shows, spearheading a policy initiative that the school board passed, etc. etc.</p>

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<p>Sly_VT wrote: "There is a vast difference between having a title and demonstrating what you did with the title. In many high schools, the titles – captain, class president, etc. – are awarded based on a voting process where the most popular/best looking kid wins. Some kids have titles simply because no one ran against them. And there are the kids who get the job and then drop the ball completely (like the yearbook editor who got into college ED and promptly stopped working on the yearbook and never went to another meeting again)."</p>

<p>I very much agree. Officers in our student senate are really a popularity contest. They rarely do or accomplish much. My D wrote about how she was not only not elected as an officer (though was a Senator), that one year, she was not even elected to Senator but chose to particpiate anyway. She noted on her activity resume about being the founder and leader of two initiatives/committees to create two policies in our school. This was very involving and time consuming, involving meetings at 7 AM before school, presentations to faculty, school board, what not....two full years resulting in the school board adopting her first policy which was a big change in our school. This was leading when not even elected as officer and was one of the few accomplishments ever made by the Senate, and no kid had successfully done this before. Teacher and GC recs noted this. She not only did not quit when she ran up against obstacles, did not quit when admitted to college, and pursued the second policy initiative even AFTER she GOT TO COLLEGE because she had devoted so much time to it and that one had not been brought to closure as the first policy had been.</p>

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<p>We had a situation where younger d tried out for a sport, was cut, tried for another, and thought it was no cut, well, it was</p>

<p>anyway, she is now able to do something she loves, if finding ways to get more experience with it, has plans to pursue it over the summer , and next year, when 16 9as it involves animals) volunteer</p>

<p>it is different, it is fun, and she loves it</p>

<p>the sports at my Ds school is all consuming, no clubs meetings after school because of sports, kids are let out of class early even if event is at school, it takes over all, especially in the spring</p>

<p>it makes it are for sociallalizing if not on a team, but after frosh year, kids learn it isn't everything</p>

<p>but, it does make it difficult for kids wanting to do things at the school after school, clubs, and the like, as there are very few at that time</p>

<p>I get frustrated, because this school has so much, but the sports, well, is all</p>

<p>And as a parent of a kid who is too young to drive, well, I am part of whatever D is doing, and often no one her age is doing the activitiy because of SPORTS</p>

<p>Our sports is a way of padding the resumes, in my opinion...and it is sad, these kids have little time to do anything else during sports season- little service, few clubs, etc</p>

<p>But hey, my D will be different- she loves horse, volunteers on a ranch, designs clothes and sews, and works with rescue dogs, so, while not leadership in the traditional sense, hopefully her passions will be recognized</p>

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<p>And my other D chose not to run for office, even though the school asked her to, she found the issues shallow, trite and the same thing year after year, so like others, found her own club, does other things, but things she finds important that make a difference and are "real"</p>

<p>to her deciding the homecoming theme isn't that important, but bringing about awareness of human trafficiing is, if choosing not to be a leader in the traditional popularity sense "hurts" her, so be it, she does what is important to her</p>

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<p>Citygirlsmom...I think your D's pursuits are as worthy and notable as school associated activities. Colleges do not care if the EC endeavors are associated with the school. Our school barely has "clubs"...I didn't even know what a club was until I read CC and everyone was talking about "clubs". Mostly here the school stuff is either sports or the arts and a couple of other things. But ECs include ALL activities, not just school ones. For instance, my kids spent hours at a dance studio and in instrument or voice lessons or ski programs outside of the school. Your D is as well. Volunteering on a ranch IS an activity. I have a client who rides horses and works at the stable and has a job at a cafe....she just got into her top choice school. </p>

<p>I do not, however, understand your comment that sports is padding a resume. To the contrary, the teams my D has been involved on require as much as 15 hours a week and sometimes far more with travel. It is a huge committment and dedication and over many many years. It is a deep seated passion and hardly done to look good for college. Nobody gets up at 6 AM on weekends to look good for college, lol. Also, if it were padding a resume, why in the world is she still doing these sports in college for hours on end?</p>

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<p>OK, proud Dad, but I'm very please with how DS has approaced EC's.</p>

<p>His big thing is jazz piano, even though he won't be a music major. His EC list includes high school jazz band since 6th grade, started own jazz combo for paid gigs, started summer jazz club to encourage participation in jazz band by younger kids, attended summer music camp 2 years to play jazz pianio, raised money for a grand piano in high school auditiorium, plays piano at retirement home monthly, etc.</p>

<p>This was not by design to fill out a college application, it's just something he loves to do. Whether this is the kind of thing adcom's are looking for or not, only time will tell (he's a junior). </p>

<p>And it's not even that I am hoping they value it so he can get in to X school, it's that the school that values this degree of dedication in this field of interest is indicating that it will be a good fit for DS.</p>