<p>You present good advice, how did your daughter look for employment in NY and DC? I mean, did she do this through online searching by city? Right now I use two different career sites from universities and indeed.com and simplyhired.com(I don’t use Monster or Career Builder). I wouldn’t know how to search for a job specifically in New York unless I entered New York directly into a search engine.</p>
<p>Every single submission I have sent out of state has not been answered. I haven’t got a single email or call from any position that I have applied out of state. I also am looking at government jobs that are out of state. Perhaps I just don’t know how to find a job out of state. Does anyone know what I am doing wrong?</p>
<p>Calmom - I am sure your D’s apt is fine, as she says she likes it, and you vouch for her good sense.</p>
<p>However to get serious (as opposed to my earlier post with the smilie), from all I can gather (and I still follow it both because as a former NYer I am interested in NYC real estate, and because there is some percentage my DD will end up in NYC) most “cheap” apts in Manhattan are not merely smaller than you might expect given the number of BR’s, but they are often in buildings charecterized by certain “issues” not to mention in neighborhoods with certain “issues” (though of course there aren’t so many such nabes in Manhattan anymore). When I was 20 or so my cousin lived with some roommates, said it was Ok, then one fine day she called my dad (my parents still lived in Brooklyn, I was at college in New England- her folks were in Los Angeles) saying she needed to leave and could he come and help move her. My dad later shook his head at how disgusting the place and the building were. She later found a nicer, rent stabilized place - albeit on what was then a very marginal block. IIRC she crashed with my parents till she found the new place.</p>
<p>My standards for comfy are, I suspect, not as high as most parents on CC. I grew up in a family of four in a 3BR 1 bath apt in brooklyn, without central air. But it was a clean middle class building, it was new enough that all apt were relatively light and airy, and it was a safe neighborhood. Today I live in a 3BR standard issue end of group Northern Virginia Townhome. I do not judge based on mcmansion standards. But my strong impression is that the tendency of new grads with modest incomes to seek out roommate situations in Brooklyn and Queens rather than Manhattan is for a reason.</p>
<p>Your DD may have been very lucky in what she was able to find - but I would not suggest to most 40k graduates to expect to find a good RE situation in Manhattan.</p>
<p>Buba, my daughter was attending school in New York, so she used local resources, including listings at her college – and she used various online resources. Even Craiglist, though that’s better for part-time work & odd jobs than full time employment. I know that the listing for the job she got came up through idealist.org. It is very easy to set up a search with specific criteria with idealist.org, and then subscribe to a daily email or RSS feed based on those criteria. No charge.</p>
<p>If you are graduating in the spring, then you would be unlikely to get very far with most applications, as the listings you see now would be for openings in a few months. On-campus recruiters might show up in October to hire for June, but real-world employers usually are listing positions to be filled 60-90 days out. So at this point in time it would be more important to be networking, building up interviewing skills, honing up the resume, etc. My d’s college career center offered a series of workshops focusing on job-hunting skills and she took full advantage of those offerings; they also hooked her up with a real-world mentor who held a high position with a government agency that would fit her idea of a “dream job”. The mentor was a great help – and my d. did in fact apply for an overseas job with that agency – she did not get that job, but the agency called and offered her an unpaid internship in D.C., that sounded amazing. However, my d. turned it down because of the “unpaid” part.</p>
<p>If by “issues” you mean a place where the neighbors tend to have darker skin tones, that’s not an “issue” in my family. </p>
<p>My d. is in Washington Heights, but Brooklyn & Queens would be fine with her, as she works in Brooklyn. But both her apartment & work are on the A train - so it’s one train – the thing about NY is that she could be geographically much closer to work but end up with a longer commute, depending on proximity to trains & routing. </p>
<p>And I’ve seen photos of her apartment – it looks cozy but nice. There’s a dishwasher in the kitchen, polished hardwood floors throughout. So I think its fine for a youngster with her first job out of college. </p>
<p>As I posted above, my d. earns “under” $40K – well under, though I’m not sure what the salary is worth if the value of the health benefit is tossed in… I did a little research on the cost of health insurance in NY, so I’m thinking that with her benefits package calculated in, then the job would probably be worth somewhat more. In the current market, that’s good money – I was keeping an eye out for listings when she graduated, and I saw a lot of jobs that paid far less. But if a person erects a lot of barriers for themselves by unrealistic expectations, then it is going to be that much harder to find a job and live independently.</p>
<p>Disappointing and sad, but in the larger scheme of their working lives, just a blip. Or so they’ll come to think of it 40 years from now. </p>
<p>I knew some people who got married in 1929. Talk about a bad time to be starting out. :eek: When I knew them in 1999, they were living very nice comfortable lives. Things can’t stay bad forever…at least in the US.</p>
<p>By neighborhood issues, I mean crime, appearance, amenities, etc, etc - but mainly crime. Not race - the neighborhood I live in now is diverse, and I have lived in diverse parts of Alexandria Virginia, and in Hyde Park in Chicago. Nonetheless there are parts of NYC where I would be reluctant for my DD to live. From what I understand there are different sub neighborhoods in Washington Heights and anyway, I am not interested in going into detail about your D’s situation. But in terms of rents, I guess Wash Heights is far enough out that its rents are more comparable to Brooklyn and Queens than to Manhattan below 96th Street (despite the A train). </p>
<p>For a look by the NYT on the RE situation of 20somethings in and around Manhattan, take a look at this </p>
<p>* Before this I was living in a loft in Bushwick,” said Mr. Cavin Quezada, who grew up outside Washington. “This apartment is nicer, and has more amenities, but the neighborhood is noticeably fishier. In Bushwick, I never really felt threatened. Now, the sounds around are more aggressive. I’ll see 20 guys ride by on motorcycles, or hear gunshots outside my window. </p>
<p>“And one day,” he said, “in the middle of a Sunday afternoon, I saw a guy on a motorcycle with a handgun. It was not a reassuring sight.” *</p>
<p>Calmom…There are neighborhoods in Brooklyn that no one would want to see their loved ones in. Heck the people that live their don’t even want to be there.</p>
<p>My d. is currently paying roughly $500/mo rent, shared apartment with 2 others. She has the smallest room, so pays a smaller fraction than the others. (The master tenant sets the rate by square footage). I assume the room is pretty small, but I’ve seen photos of the apartment and it is nicely decorated, albeit cozy, and has a well appointed kitchen, although also cozy. We are experienced city dwellers, not naive – but at the same time also not afraid of downscale neighborhoods. My d. lucked out with that apartment, she would have probably been willing to rent paying twice that much, but with her student loans its nice that she is able to live comfortably on her income. She does have to add the recently increased cost of the monthly metro pass into the mix – although when she complained, I pointed out that if she had a car, she would probably be paying out as much or more in gas & insurance costs, more if you consider a car payment. </p>
<p>In many areas craigslist is a great source of listings for shared housing. The Google streetview feature can be used to check out a neighborhood in advance – you really can get a reasonably good sense of the area from the pictures. There’s a web site called padmapper that is a wonderful tool for searching for listings in specific areas, and they have just added the ability to overlay their maps with ones based on crime stats for people who are really worried about that sort of thing.</p>
<p>this exchange started when someone complained about his prospects of earning 40k with an econ degree and you replied</p>
<p>“To Buba001. The problem isn’t your degree, it’s your attitude. My kids have (a) jobs and (b) poli sci degrees. Both are fully employed, and have been since immediately upon graduation. D. earns under $40K & is living on her own (in an apartment shared with other 20-somethings) in Manhattan, quite comfortably from what I hear.”</p>
<p>A tiny room, in Washington Heights (granted its improved alot in the last 25-30 years, its still far from the major activity centers, and its still, IIUC, much less safe than many of the less convenient nabes in brooklyn and queens) was NOT the impression I got from your earlier post. I am glad your D finds it quite comfortable. I would not come down too hard on someone who does not find such a situation quite comfortable. I really am NOT comfortable going into detail about your D’s situation, but you raised it as evidence of the livability of 40k in NYC. I know of course that many young people, committed to a field that takes them to NYC, get by on less than 40k, but I can hardly find fault with a new grad who finds that lifestyle daunting. </p>
<p>Certainly if I lived in a house anywhere near NYC and my DD was offered a job in NYC, I would strongly suggest she live at home rather than live in a tiny room in Washington Heights. If she ends up with a choice between a 40k job here in DC, and a 40K job in NYC, (given her field of Arch, not an impossibility) I will strongly suggest she consider taking the DC job, rather than live that way in NYC.</p>
<p>Brooklynborndad—I have a similar view to you as a former New Yorker very familiar with neighborhoods that I would not want my kids to live in. Given the choice between living at home and living in some parts of the city it would be a hands down decision that safety comes first. However, I can appreciate the idea of a young 20 something wanting to be out on her own even if it means a less than favorable area…however I would hope her stay in this neighborhood is as short as possible with a move to a better location as soon as she could afford to move on.</p>
<p>My daughter has spent more than a year out in LA looking for work in her field ( at least she had a little $$ coming in from the retail job she began in college and transferred to out there )
We decided ( as parents ) that we were not going to renew the lease as she has had only one job interview in all of this time. She is currently driving back east with her car packed and a little sad about what she feels is a failure.
She is going to try her hand in NYC and something tells me she will have better luck here than on the west coast…maybe she might have that much more motivation when she is sort of stuck here in our little town.
Her childhood friend who has taken a semester off from his college flew out to share the trip with her…which makes me feel better that she isn’t alone
I am a little mad at her college for giving what I consider to be outdated advice to the graduating seniors in her major , to stay out there while applying. In retrospect, we could have flown her out, first class and put her up in a five star hotel for all of the money wasted …things just aren’t the same for today’s grads as they were a few yrs ago</p>
<p>The thought that $40K is QUITE livable in Manhattan is a hoot. I made $45K over 25 years ago, and felt that I could not really get a livable studio apt in a decently located area in Manhattan while still continuing to buy clothing, have a social life and go on an occassional vacation. I opted to live in an area close to Park Slope in Brooklyn ( a safe middle class area but far from trendy). I was able to go out and enjoy Manhattan by not living in Manhattan and had some leftover money to buy clothes and travel. But remember that was over 25 years ago and the cost of living was much lower!</p>
<p>Living in Washington Heights is far from the experience that most kids seeking to live in Manhattan would want. I don’t think that it is being pampered to expect certain things from a living situation. I do not ever want my D to compromise safety, nor would I want her never to be able to save any money and live totally pay check to pay check by necessity. Too many kids are paying way too much of their salary towards rent and are sacrificing the ability to enjoy life in the city by having zero cash flow after rent.</p>
<p>I would much rather have D move back home after college and focus on saving money until she could realistically support herself in decent style. I have a friend in her 60’s now who is still living in her first apartment in downtown Manhattan and who has never really moved beyond that. While her rent is a bargain now, it wasn’t for many years and her expenses kept rising. She has never quite caught up!</p>
<p>I have no doubt about my D’s ability to make it on her own in the city. She has been dorming at NYU for the last 4 years. But when she does move out I want her to be able to truly support herself and be safe.</p>
<p>Well, you guys pretty much prove my case… it is a matter of attitude. </p>
<p>My d. is happy, comfortable in her lifestyle, and ecstatic about her job. She’s paying her rent, paying off student loans, and saving money for grad school. If she has any worries about the safety of her neighborhood, she hasn’t voiced them. I’m not worried – she spent the previous summer traipsing on her own all over Europe, and the previous summer living by herself in Delhi … I figure that on a relative scale she’s “safer” than usual. </p>
<p>But if you erect a barrier for yourself at the outset by deciding that modest lifestyle is a hardship or labeling a downscale neighborhood as too dangerous – then of course the new grad will have a tough time finding a job that pays enough to support the upper class lifestyle they expect to lead. </p>
<p>According to the color codes, my d’s current neighborhood is safer than the one where her college put her up - and safer than the upper east side (colored a paler shade of blue) – whereas she’d run into a lot more problems if she moved to midtown south or the lower east side. Probably not, actually – the reason the crime rates are higher there is that there is more stuff to steal in more well-to-do areas, and areas in NY with a lot of tourists and hotels are also a magnet for theft. But my d is not particularly likely to be targeted for theft. The bottom line is that NY is one of the safest large cities in the U.S. and the crime rate has been declining steadily over the past decade – see: [NYC</a> Is Safest City as Crime Rises in U.S., FBI Says (Update1) - Bloomberg](<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?)</p>
<p>Calmom…I agree it is a matter of attitude and it is also a matter of circumstance. D has the option of moving home for a while to save $ and earn some more in terms of salary while still living in a nearby suburb. I would rather she see this as a temporary situation and for her to know that when she moves out that she can truly support herself.</p>
<p>D has been to many of her friends apartments throughout the city and frankly has found some of them to be in truly unsafe neighborhoods. Many require long subway rides which her unescorted girl friends take at all hours of the night. Statistics aside, I know the city and would not want her in those circumstances. I would rather have her live at home and skip to the next step…living in a safe area that is well located. I am not talking about her emulating an upperclass lifestyle…just living a safe and comfortable lifestyle with money for a cabride home if necessary.</p>
<p>Luckily we are able to offer this option because we are New Yorkers. Most of her friends from home are planning to do the same and move back in with their parents. The others are having parents help out with rent or end up buying their children apartments. Most of the kids D knows who are living in fringe neighborhoods (in terms of safety and location) are from out of state and don’t have any other option if they want to pursue living in NYC. And their parents aren’t as familiar with the city and don’t quite understand the downside of their living arrangements. I grew up in Brooklyn and lived there when I was single. I am not adverse to her living in the boroughs as long as they are safe and offer a good commute. My husband and I know the city very well–not just Manhattan. There are “downscale” neighborhoods that are safe, and others that are not. My issue is that many kids are making unsafe decisions and their parents don’t know the difference. I have no problem with her living “modestly”…as a matter of fact I see no other option as it is my goal for her to support herself!</p>
<p>My point isn’t to criticize young people who choose to live at home if that is a reasonable option for them… it’s just there seems to be an “I can’t” attitude manifested by youngsters – coupled with parental ratification in the sense of branding normal and customary living arrangements for youngsters as too risky. </p>
<p>My daughter is 22 years old; I have faith in her ability to make appropriate decisions as to living arrangements. I don’t have to see or approve where she lives – and I certainly don’t have to or want to subsidize her through her adult live for my personal comfort level. There are recent college grads her age who have opted for the Peace Corps after college, or programs like Teach for America that sends young adults into inner cities to teach; and there are kids much younger who opted for the military – those are situations that are potentially far more risky. When my d. returned from Europe a year ago she needed a place to stay for several weeks before school started, and she ended up in east Harlem. She survived. She was there because in her mind it was “safer” than the place she had planned to stay originally, in Brooklyn. I put “safer” in quotes because it has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of the neighborhood – it was a matter of the behavior of a roommate. She was uncomfortable sharing space with one particular person so she chose to move in with someone else instead. </p>
<p>The real question is… when do youngsters grow up and start taking responsibility for their own lives? And when do parents let go? </p>
<p>I know that parents who have achieved a higher, more comfortable standard of living for themselves want what they perceive as best for their kids — but my d’s observation has been that a lot of her elite college classmates are hampered by their own unreasonable fears. They have been conditioned into believing that the world is a far more dangerous place than it really is, and at the same time they haven’t accumulated the day-to-day street smarts and common sense that make them less likely to be victimized.</p>
<p>I agree with you calmom. I want my kids to learn to live within a budget as soon as possible upon graduating. My D lives in the area of Brooklyn where I grew up(a very safe area) and commutes to her job in Manhattan. We live in a suburb of the city, but the commute would be much more difficult from here and she wouldn’t be getting that full sense of independence she is experiencing now. The one thing that I do help her with when necessary is a taxi ride to her apt if she is out in Manhattan very late.</p>
<p>Researchmaven… I think we are on the same page. I do not expect my daughter to only want a prime, expensive Manhattan apartment as her only option. Hell, I work hard and my husband makes a decent living and I am still waiting for one of those. As I said, I grew up and eventually had my first apartment in a safe but thoroughly uncool neighborhood in Bklyn. The subways were good and yes, I also spent money on cabs home at certain times of the night. </p>
<p>But it is not a matter of “learning street smarts”. Sometimes “street smarts” is understanding what is a safe neighborhood and what is not. As a born and raised NYer (third generation) I do not live in fear at all. But I know how to access situations reasonably and cannot say all situations are safe because it is not cool or politically correct to not want to live or commute from certain parts of the city.</p>
<p>Since my point is that I think my D has to be making X number of dollars in order to afford a safe apartment, I will offer her a home a commutable distance from NYC until she is earning enough money. If she is lucky to make enough with her first job, then I will NOT hold her back. But I think with a salary between $30-$40K her options will be limited. I still also feel that if you need to sink every dime into rent, you are putting yourself in a precarious position and may not enjoy city life because of your inordinate rent obligation. That is a decision D will have to make for herself. It is not a matter of letting go. It is a matter of her making a wise decision based on what kind of lifestyle SHE wants. We are not talking about fear, we are talking about choice.</p>