<p>I have no problem with AA as I see it has its use and college needs it for diversity sake. However I was thinking actually bigger problem in diversity is income disparity. Does college boost chances for to white or Asian (Non URM) exceptionally bright kids but who have financial disadvantages? Are they simply ignored as there are many non URMs who have similar disadvantages and have achievements?</p>
<p>Is there any boost for Asian kids with lower income group who are exceptionally bright and have proven track record. They have consistently performed despite odds. Or the College advantage is only limited based on race only and not the culprit which is actually income differences. I am curious if there is any study on this kind of data.</p>
<p>the short answer is "no".
you're out of luck. furthermore once some schools reach their quota for BWRK, denials occur and they look for the quirky, the downtrodden, those with victimhood stamped on their foreheads.
now keep in mind we're talking about the top 20 and ivies and top LACS.
If you look further down the list you'll find scholarships available at many, many schools for BWRK--the problem is that most kids can't handle the lesser prestige and believe that their future is dependent upon what school they attend. it isn't. you tell them as a parent it isn't but deep down they buy into the malarky that it weighs upon your social status, your housing, your employment and they dismiss among themselves those who attend such schools. so do many snobby parents.</p>
<p>I will post my same answer to the same question you asked in the other thread..</p>
<p>At schools at are actively seeking to recruit, admit and enroll more low income students and have initiatives in place to accomplish this; most of the ivies, stanford, amherst, williams, schools that have partnered with organizations like questbridge & the posse foundation the boost is there regardless of race.</p>
<p>I agree with music toad to the extent that the disconnect lies in the fact that there are many schools where students with these attibutes will be eligible for full scholarships but students/ parents would tend to "look down" on them because they are not the ivies and peer insitiutions. Based on some of the postings that I have been reading on CC, this seems that there is more pressure to get into an ivy from students of especially those whose parents are recent immigrants of asian descent than it would be for caucasian parents/students.</p>
<p>I got your message loud and clear that for poor people it is a doggy dog world. It means perform and compete with the rest of the world which exits in real life.</p>
<p>This logic makes sense as this is a fact of life for majority of people. However, with similar logic working against the odds and performing to the exceptional level and then trying your best to apply good college there is nothing wrong? Is that a wrong assumption? </p>
<p>That is a fair assessment and since all Ivies are private schools they do not owe anyone any thing. :)</p>
<p>sybbie :</p>
<p>I think your assessment is fair enough and thanks for it.</p>
<p>there is a small admission boost for students who are first generation college.
Also essays are often where students can illustrate hardships overcome and that sort of thing to give more depth to students portfolio
IF a good writer, this can help in admissions</p>
<p>I think you would really be hard pressed to find any school that would break the information down like that. </p>
<p>The closest thing you would find would be the common data set which would tell you the number of students who applied for financial aid.
The number of students who were determined to have a financial need and the % of need that was met.</p>
<p>for example: Princetone has 1179 undergrad freshman
715 students (60.6%) applied for financial aid</p>
<p>608 students (51.6%) were determined to have a financial need and were awarded FA</p>
<p>the UCs do give a small tip factor in admissions to ALL low income kids, and/or those kids who attend low income schools. As a result, at ~33%, the UCs have (one of?) the highest % of Pell Grantees.</p>
<p>Also, it's important to keep in mind that all financial aid packages are not necessarily created equally, even at need blind schools. </p>
<p>Like need aware schools, many need blind schools can and do use preferential packaging when it comes to FA awards-- i.e, Admit A and Admit B have identical EFC's. However, Admit A has something the college wants/needs but Admit B doesn't. They both get $20,000 aid packages but Admit A gets a $20,000 grant and Admit B gets a $10,000 grant, an $8,000 loan and $2,000 in work study. And, of course, some schools - even need-blind ones -- do not meet the full EFC for all students to begin with. So, you will NEVER get most schools to tell you that EVERY student with an EFC of such and such is going to get a particular FA package. That is why all of those online calculators on college websites are very careful to include disclaimers saying that the results shown are not a promise of any particular award.</p>
<p>However, if you want to know how many kids fall into Pell Grant range (typically under $40,000 or so family income), that information is readily available. And, you can also easily find out details about how many applicants apply for aid, how many are determined to have need, and how many have 100% of need met. If you want to PM me, I'd be happy to give you a list of resources that will help you find the information and understand how things work.</p>
<p>I don't agree with musictoad's reply (post #2). Arguably, the situation you describe is my family's situation. I don't worry about it. My oldest son is gaining some great opportunities in precollege programs, and I expect him to be able to go to a great, and affordable, college. I don't expect any of my non-URM children to have any trouble attending a good college that we can afford. </p>
<p>The OP's broader concern was the subject of a famous article ("Needed:</a> Affirmative Action for the Poor") by Laura D'Andrea Tyson, formerly a government official in the Clinton administration. Some of the recent financial aid initiatives at the Ivy League colleges are a response to her call for action.</p>
<p>Finding the distribution of financial aid for matriculants at certain schools is not that hard. It only requires to check the contents of the web sites. What is a lot harder is to find correlations between financial aid distributions and admissions, or finding the distribution of financial aid very instructive except at schools that have abandoned loans for lower income families.</p>
<p>"the UCs do give a small tip factor in admissions to ALL low income kids, and/or those kids who attend low income schools. As a result, at ~33%, the UCs have (one of?) the highest % of Pell Grantees."</p>
<p>and probably the highest ratio of self-employed families.</p>
<p>It depends on the school - D is at Amherst she is not URM, but she is considered a diversity student because of home state and finances. She received Early Write and the school paid for her to visit, etc. Her school still considers Asians URM's, because there aren't that many of them there. So you need to look at this on a case-by-case basis.</p>
<p>Newparent, I have seen data similar to what you are looking for with some colleges, but it isn't something regularly available. </p>
<p>Many colleges do publish a chart of some kind in connection with the financial aid data that will show the level of financial aid in connection with income level -- the charts are not definitive, because of course each family situation is different -- but it does provide some useful guideline information. These charts don't show you percentages -- that is, the chart isn't going to tell you what percentage of admitted students fall in the $70K-$90K family income range - but they do tell you the average award level for families in that range.</p>
<p>I have also seen some demographic data that shows what percentage of students are admitted within different income ranges, for a very few colleges. Again, this isn't something regularly available -- one problem is that schools really have no way of knowing income levels of students who do not seek financial aid. So the best you could get would be a breakdown based on the overall percentage of kids who apply for and qualify for aid.</p>
<p>newparent, I think you are conflating separate (but related) issues:
Will your daughters status as a low income Asian help her acceptance?
How much need based aid will she receive?</p>
<p>Starting with the second question, I think you could get a pretty fair idea of how much your daughter would be entitled to by using an on-line calculator. As others have pointed out, this is just a guideline: she may get more, she may get less, she may receive a different breakdown among loans, grants, work, she may be able to re-negotiate offers, etc. There are a lot of variables that simply cannot be firmly predicted, but you can get a general idea of what to expect.</p>
<p>Back to the question of how her personal profile will affect her chance of admissions: It really depends on the college. All colleges want economic diversity. Usually this is not just a quantitative measure based on income but is reflected in life experience for example desireable economic diversity traits are having parents who are immigrants or who didnt attend college or rising above difficult living environment. In other words, excelling inspite of economic disadvantage is a plus.</p>
<p>As ejr1 points out, at some colleges especially non-urban LACs -- Asians are considered unrepresented minorities. These are usually not the biggest names and they are usually not located in cities, but many of them offer rigorous academics and excellent graduate school connections. They tend to give preference to Asians and other non-whites because they have a difficult time attracting the URMs that they need to balance their diversity percentages. They admit more because their URM yields are comparatively low. </p>
<p>So, in answer to your question, yes, student from a lower economic stratum would have an advantage at many schools and being Asian would increase that advantage at many, but not all, schools. At most selective schools, if accepted your daughter would most likely get need based aid; however, the amount and type of aid may vary widely from school to school.</p>
<p>newparent, last year Brandeis appeared to have shifted their strategic plan to attract more Asian students. I say appeared, because many studetns who would have traditionally received big merit $$$ from Brandeis were passed over for Asian kids with lesser stats who got big $$$. Go to the Brandeis forum and page through the forums about scholarships and merit money. Brandeis is a superb small/mid university with excellent reputation in many areas located in Waltham, MA. It was founded in an effort to provide an Ivy League level education for students of Jewish background who could not be admitted to Ivy League schools because of anti-Semitism. Now, Brandeis prides itself on it's diversity. Yes, the predominant ethnic backgroud is Jewish, but overall fewer than 50% students are Jewish, many non-observant, and most non-Jewish students report no problems socially. The main issue has been that Asian parents/families seem to be so hung up on prestige, that only HYP will do (and often not Y or P). BWRK Asian students (and parents) needing financial assistance who broaden their scope of schools can be as successful as any other group. Check out Brandeis.</p>