<p>I seriously doubt that this young man got kicked out of Syracuse for getting caught twice with a six-pack of beer. I strongly suspect that the two "violations" were more serious than that.</p>
<p>For example, most colleges would probably "recommend" or demand a year off for a student following a second hospitalization for alcohol poisoning. Or a second arrest for drunk and disorderly. Or a second drunken brawl. Or a second serious destruction of property.</p>
<p>I appreciate the concern for this young man- but I agree that - consequences should have meaning & it possibly is the best thing that could have happened.</p>
<p>The suspension I mentioned earlier was for bringing alcohol into the dorm after being on probation. This particular kid DOES have an alcohol abuse problem and has for years. He is over 21 and will not agree that he has a problem and will not agree to any treatment. As a result, he is not attending college and has to work and support himself.</p>
<p>the consensus on this thread is that this kid has a drinking problem. I believe he probably had dumb luck, and will use this as a growing experience. I don't like the fact that people are passing judgement on him. I'm sure he is a very nice kid. One poster stated that the universities would be empty if every kid who drank twice got kicked out.
When I was 19 I had 2 drug violations in the military, from the thread here I was a doomed person. It said to me that I needed to grow up. I never was kicked out of the military, I stayed active/reserve for a total of 21 years retired over 6 years ago. I work for a large corporation, graduated from college and have a very nice family and make a very good living. I guess that is what you can do if you are a pot head.</p>
<p>He definitely was found drunk twice. He was taken to the hospital one time, and the second he was drunk but just walking home. I kind of am upset because he was only walking home from a party and got breathalized. It is policy I guess to take drunk students to the hospital so it counted as another hospitalization even though he was never even actually checked into the hospital. From what he says they just gave him potassium pills and told him to go home after 15 minutes. </p>
<p>My brother is definitely irresposible, but I have to admit that he could have been doing much worse. This was a weekend night...and while he was drunk he wasn't driving home or anything extreme...he didn't put anyone else at danger. He does go out basically every weekend, but there's no way he does during weekdays. </p>
<p>I guess it is a waste to argue Syracuse's decision since the decision is final. He probably is going to give Tulane a shot and hopefully Mom and Dad won't force him to go to our state school.</p>
<p>I haven't seen any judgment passed at all. Why would suggesting that he explore whether he has an alcohol problem or not, especially since, if he is an incipient alcoholic, it is likely inherited, and something he can't easily help, be considered judgmental?</p>
<p>I think the only judgmentalness I've heard is from those who apply stigma to alcoholism. Would you do the same if he had signs of high blood pressure or diabetes, and someone suggested that he have it checked out?</p>
<p>Did I miss it, or has no one commented on the fact that this
young man, at only 20, is under the legal drinking age. </p>
<p>That makes it a state violation,
which may cause compliance to
extend beyond the school's jurisdiction.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It is policy I guess to take drunk students to the hospital so it counted as another hospitalization even though he was never even actually checked into the hospital.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Of course it counts. College security and college town police do not send every student who has been drinking to the hospital as a matter of policy. Students are sent to the hospital when there is reason for concern as evidenced by their BAC levels or behavior. You don't get transported to the hospital for having some drinks (even quite a few) and walking quietly back to your dorm. You get transported to the hospital when you are either found unconscious and unresponsive or "acting out" in an uncontrollable manner.</p>
<p>Two alcohol related hospital transports is a big red flag. I believe that most colleges would take serious steps at that point, usually involving either a voluntary or non-voluntary leave from campus.</p>
<p>Judgment has been passed. Posters have unfoundedly assumed that the student is an alcoholic and proceded with some of the stigmas you referred to. You are correct he should explore as to whether he has an alcohol issue, but it is not for us to decide. Would you recommend a tobacco smoker for counseling? </p>
<p>"Did I miss it, or has no one commented on the fact that this
young man, at only 20, is under the legal drinking age. "</p>
<p>We all know how ridiculous those laws are.</p>
<p>"extend beyond the school's jurisdiction."</p>
<p>Evidently, not.</p>
<p>well, let us see</p>
<p>he was kicked out of school....hmmmm.....seems to me there is a serious problem, if nothig else, an extreme lack of judgement and not caring about consequences, and he is an adult</p>
<p>for a school to kick someone out, well, that is indeed a judgement</p>
<p>I don't know if the young man has a drinking problem, BUT I do know that he didn't take the consequences seriously, and now, he is out of school...he didn't care and decided that partying was more important...KNOWING that if he got busted, he could be gone...</p>
<p>if we judge him on being stupid well I do</p>
<p>if that was MY kid, oh man would I be angry, its not like he had no warning...</p>
<p>maybe the rules aren't fair, I have no idea, but they are what they are</p>
<p>my Ds school has a dress code, you can often get away with being out of dress code, but if you you get caught, fair or not, it is the rules, so suck it up</p>
<p>this brother, well, he, as I said, needs to figure out his priorities, that is not saying he is an alcoholic, but a sign of having a drinking problem is not seeing the consequences and not changing your behavior</p>
<p>I agree with most of what you said except "if we judge him on being stupid well I do". We have absolutely no right to judge others because we will never be in their shoes...we might endure and undergo similar circumstances, but we will never be them.</p>
<p>I mentioned age in passing, in that he most likely has an illegal ID. No one is saying he is stupid so much as saying he is showing stupid behavior, possibly behavior driven by addiction. He'll take his attitude home, to New Orleans, and everywhere else he goes.
Being dumb about it may be the best thing to happen to him. He'll have to face the consequences. He didn't learn from his first warning. Fixing it so he just switches schools and leaving the behaviors and attitude in place are putting him at risk.
yes, some will outgrow this, outgrow drugs, wild behaviors of all kinds. But you cannot assume cause you drank too much, or got caught with drugs, that it is safe, healthy, ok behavior.
I think many of us could start the Dead friends, ruined families, addictions are not like on TV thread.</p>
<p>I think that Tulane would be a seriously wrong choice of a school. While he may not be an alcoholic, he clearly can't see that the one violation was a loud wake up call to whatever choices he made. Tulane is not the kind of place that will help him curb his drinking or help him figure out why he is in this mess in the first place. He would be going from the frying pan to the fire.</p>
<p>Maybe he has already realized the dire consequences of his actions and is willing to reform. Personally, I don't think punishing him severly will help matters. I know that if I wasn't given the chances that I've had(2nd, 3rd) then I might have become a lost cause and ultimately wouldn't have become the person that I am today. In this instance, understanding and compassion is needed not harsh punishment and intolerance. If only someone was willing to help, but I digress as we have become a society in which we do not help our fellow man and woman.</p>
<p>"Would you recommend a tobacco smoker for counseling?"</p>
<p>If you got kicked out of school or other institution for it, I sure would! Not only that, but in my state, I'd help hook you up with a counselor, if you'd agree to go. I'd do the same (but with a physician) if you repeatedly felt light-headed or nervously irritable, or passed out after eating that extra piece of cake.</p>
<p>The fact that he drank twice, and perhaps it was only twice, is not the issue, the indicator of a problem is the immaturity of not taking the first warning seriously. I may not agree with the 20MPH speed limit on the street nearby, but if I get a ticket, it ought to convince me to abide by the limit. If I choose to disregard it again, my insurance rates will go up when I am caught, that is the consequence. </p>
<p>Your B needs to experience and understand his consequences and figure out why he disregarded them. Maybe he & all his buddies and EVERY ONE he sees drink on the weekends and they are all safe, but when he was caught the first time, he lost his safety net and did not care enough or did not take it seriously enough to adjust his behavior. That's the crux of the issue.</p>
<p>Perhaps a bit of time off will give him time to figure it out and go back to school with a fresh perspective</p>
<p>"If I choose to disregard it again, my insurance rates will go up when I am caught, that is the consequence. "</p>
<p>Yes, but it is unlikey that your insurance rates will drastically alter the rest of your life in an immense way.</p>
<p>while I am not a drug/alcohol counselor- I would agree that this young man is not necessarily an alcoholic.
An alcoholic- the way I understand it- has a disease- addiciton & can't stop the behavior without lots of help.</p>
<p>I think that many students- abuse substances in college ( and high school) and all it takes is a kick in the butt to straighten up.</p>
<p>However- he has been behaving recklessly and abusing substances- in this case alcohol & to have outside consequences imposed on him- is probably not something that could have been negotiated away in all cases.</p>
<p>I would also agree that New Orleans and Tulane- while wonderful & stimulating, do not have necessarily have the environment, that I would recommend to someone who is predisposed to abuse alcohol.
( even before Katrina)</p>
<p>okay, stupid is knowing that you will get kicked out of college if you get busted for having alcohol again and then having alcohol again...I call that stupid....</p>
<p>so either the kid was stupid or has a drinking problem which should be addressed...if it is the latter, then he should get some help and this is up to HIM....compassion ONLY if he sees that he needs help or realizes he did something stupid....if he doesn't see one of those...</p>
<p>the only time I have ever gotten a moving violation ticket I learned my lesson....I did not want another one</p>
<p>being an adult is learning from your mistakes, and we, as adults who have lived through stuff, are trying to make the point that unless the brother has learned something, worrying about getting into another school is pointless</p>
<p>as well, many of us are doubtful that these two events that caused the suspension are the only ones, and if that is what he is claiming, even just to himself, than he needs to wake up, as does his family</p>
<p>as a parent, I wouldn't want to just start paying another tuition for my child who got kicked out of college, no matter what the reason was, UNLESS they acknowledged the problem that got them kicked out- if that is getting help, admitting how stupid they were, if there was a drug or alcohol problem, of course I would be compasisonate if they seriously realized they needed help and sought it...</p>
<p>this kid is not clueless, he knew exactly what he was doing and took the risk, is that very smart? </p>
<p>I have compassion for people dealing with problems, but at a certain point there is some personal responsibility and if this student really wants to have a chance at college, he at least needs to look at what got him into this mess in the first place</p>
<p>some people have circumstances thrown at them and are in a mess not of their own making, while others create their own mess</p>
<p>It's utterly ridiculous because if this student was only a few months older he would be devoid of these problems. Really, what is a few months?</p>