Brother Suspended, Need Advice!

Parents Forum
41

<p>"this kid is not clueless, he knew exactly what he was doing and took the risk, is that very smart?"</p>

<p>Most kids (and young adults) are clueless about when getting drunk repeatedly is a potential sign of a larger underlying problem (and when it is not). And frankly, we, (and here I am also pointing at myself professionally) have done a terrible job in educating them - and the colleges, have abnegated their educational responsibilities, have done even worse. We just pile stigma on top of stigma, denial on top of denial, and then are "shocked" when people don't change their behavior. </p>

<p>If colleges don't want to appear to be large publicly or privately supported taverns, they should begin to act like it.</p>

<p>"It's utterly ridiculous because if this student was only a few months older he would be devoid of these problems. Really, what is a few months?"</p>

<p>In my family, in the previous generation, EVERYONE smoked. The month after the Surgeon General gave his warning, everyone stopped. Cold turkey. 30 year smokers. Chain smokers. Four-pack a day smokers. They all stopped, and didn't go back? Why? Good genes.</p>

<p>The average adult smoker tries to quit 11 times before actually managing it.</p>

<p>"It's utterly ridiculous because if this student was only a few months older he would be devoid of these problems. Really, what is a few months?"</p>

<p>A couple of trips to the emergency room. Our state has a project (of which I'm a part) which provides chemical dependency treatment to addicted individuals who are Medicaid-disabled. About a third stop using the first time around (and then a third the next time, and a third the next.) But regardless of whether they stop, we save a fortune. A single trip to the emergency room "in those few months" pays for an entire year of treatment. This past year alone, we saved the taxpayers $16 million, and maybe, just maybe, saved your life if you went to the emergency room with a heart attack because you could be seen earlier.</p>

42

<p>He may have a serious drinking problem, he may just be an idjet</p>

<p>that is for him to figure out, but to say the rules are stupid and he didn't deserve the consequences, will that is totally his responsibility, alcoholic or not</p>

<p>being an alcoholic does not mean not taking responsibility for your actions</p>

43

<p>"Yes, but it is unlikely that your insurance rates will drastically alter the rest of your life in an immense way"</p>

<p>But this is an opportunity to affect the rest of his life in a GOOD immense way. Graduating one year later than planned is no big deal at 20-21-22. Not learning maturity and that consequences are real could affect the rest of his life in an immense way if he does not learn anything. </p>

<p>If this were my son i would want to see him take his consequences and take the year off, then prove to me and to the school that he was ready to go back ( to any college) and be more mature. These behavior styles will affect him in jobs, marriage, life, etc. Now is a cheap time (opportunity costwise) to learn the lesson.</p>

<p>For me this is not theoretical, I had a university student who delayed graduation to deal with the consequences of poor choices along the way ( not alcohol and not being required to leave school, but other distractions.) It was extremely difficult to consider taking the train off track, but I can see now it was the right thing to do and am grateful to the advisor at the school who said take the time and come back ready to be successful, it worked...so far!</p>

44

<p>I don't see Tulane as any worse of an environment than almost any other college- except maybe BYU. I have kids at Rice and Penn, and it's pretty hard to avoid alcohol at either place. New Orleans as a city certainly is known for alcoholic "fun" (more so than Houston or Philadelphia) but college is college.</p>

45

<p>"Not learning maturity and that consequences are real could affect the rest of his life in an immense way if he does not learn anything."</p>

<p>You are assuming he hasn't learned. What if, now faced with serious punishment, he is willing to reform.</p>

46

<p>qwilde,</p>

<p>"Judgment has been passed. Posters have unfoundedly assumed that the student is an alcoholic and proceded with some of the stigmas you referred to. You are correct he should explore as to whether he has an alcohol issue, but it is not for us to decide. Would you recommend a tobacco smoker for counseling? "</p>

<p>Not me! I just called him STUPID or possibly someone with a problem. </p>

<p>If after the first time dramatics (hospital) I'm sure the school sat down with him and explained their policy and gave him options and consquences if he gets tagged again. So it would be better if he did have an alcohol problem, because he can be treated for that. STUPID however, is lifelong. </p>

<p>Knowing that he could get tossed with the next violation, to drink enough to fail a breathalizer out and about (why didn't he just crash where he was at?) is really stupid, unless he has a problem. </p>

<p>So have it your way, he doesn't have an alcohol problem, he has a stupidity problem.</p>

47

<p>"if you repeatedly felt light-headed or nervously irritable, or passed out after eating that extra piece of cake."</p>

<p>Mini, you guessed one of mine. You forgot eyesight loss and bladder control.</p>

48

<p>"It's utterly ridiculous because if this student was only a few months older he would be devoid of these problems. Really, what is a few months?"</p>

<p>BINGO !!!!!!!!!!</p>

<p>You hit it right on the head. He only had a few months till it didn't matter, yet he was still stupid enough to consume enough and be out and about PRIOR to 21. Then it comes back does he have a problem?</p>

<p>Or really is school worth it to him and this is his out? </p>

<p>If you were told one more underage citation and your expelled and you are a few months away from it not mattering could you hold off? Would the average person hold off? That's all he had to do. Wanting a beer (or a lot of beers) that badly is not a good sign. The consquences were laid on the table and as you readily point out in a couple of months it wasn't going to matter, why couldn't he hold off? Now you are pointing out the beer controlled him, not the other way around.</p>

49

<p>The number of folks hospitalized because they drank too much beer is miniscule, and I mean REALLY miniscule. </p>

<p>There's something he's not telling sis.</p>

50

<p>"You hit it right on the head. He only had a few months till it didn't matter, yet he was still stupid enough to consume enough and be out and about PRIOR to 21"</p>

<p>I was hoping someone would respond with that because now you are admitting that a few months do not make a difference and ergo the law is nonsensical. You also assumed that he had been in serious trouble with the school board prior to this incident. For all we know, they might have just given him a slap on the wrist, like quite a few colleges, and not warned him of the dire consequences should he choose to drink again (which he should be aware of anyway, but I digress).</p>

<p>"STUPID"</p>

<p>Calling someone stupid is passing judgment. Personally, I have read many of your threads and I think you are cold hearted. Have I said that? No, I have not because I'm sure there are outside forces that I might not recognize.</p>

<p>“I value your kids life over someone in another country.”</p>

51

<p>*The number of folks hospitalized because they drank too much beer is miniscule, and I mean REALLY miniscule. </p>

<p>There's something he's not telling sis.*</p>

<p>thats what I thought- wouldn't you puke first?</p>

<p>Although I did notice that the cardboard carrier that I picked up ( D likes Buderim ginger brew and the store has extra beer carriers for loose soda) for Dogfish brewery- makes pretty high proof ( and it is $10 for ONE bottle- that is one regular size bottle)</p>

<p>I had another question for you mini- that could be relevant- are there drugs that interfere with the bodys attempt to protect itself by passing out or puking? ( so that you remain conscious to drink more alcohol). Like Cocaine for instance?</p>

52

<p>You would more likely overdose on the cocaine. There are drug/drug and drug/alcohol combinations that can be particularly dangerous (usually alcohol and, say, benzodiazapines or other tranquilizer or tranquilizer-like drugs), but it would be very, very difficult to get enough alcohol into one's system fast enough from just normal beer to induce acute alcohol poisoning - you'd more likely be in distress from water poisoning first. It's just very, very rare, and often indicates some kind of underlying condition (an "underperforming" liver or kidneys....)</p>

53

<p>"You hit it right on the head. He only had a few months till it didn't matter, yet he was still stupid enough to consume enough and be out and about PRIOR to 21"</p>

<p>Game on!</p>

<p>"I was hoping someone would respond with that because now you are admitting that a few months do not make a difference and ergo the law is nonsensical. You also assumed that he had been in serious trouble with the school board prior to this incident. For all we know, they might have just given him a slap on the wrist, like quite a few colleges, and not warned him of the dire consequences should he choose to drink again (which he should be aware of anyway, but I digress)."</p>

<p>Hey if you really checked my posts you'd find that I think if you can be drafted, you should be able to have a draft on occasion. :) So no, I don't disagree with the concept your speaking of, but that isn't the rules he is under, is he? If I had a nickle for all the what if's out there, I'd be rich. But I'll still eat Kraft Dinner. :)</p>

<p>As far as a slap on the wrist, for the first time maybe. That's where the consuling comes in and the warnings. I am sure if you researched you'd find their policy on drug/alcohol violations. In the big world institutions get SUED for failing to have a policy. So I would bet he was lectured on what happens for #2.</p>

<p>Again it falls back to either he has a problem or he is....
"STUPID"</p>

<p>"Calling someone stupid is passing judgment. Personally, I have read many of your threads and I think you are cold hearted. Have I said that? No, I have not because I'm sure there are outside forces that I might not recognize."</p>

<p>Is that supposed to hurt me? make me feel bad? :) One screw up is a mistake, two screw ups for the same thing is stupidity or a problem. Since you've completely discounted the possibility he has a problem then he must be stupid. Call it a judgement call it cold hearted or whatever, it is what it is. Failure to learn, progress after a bad experience should be chalked up to what? </p>

<p>It is too bad he got caught the first time. But the first time... he ended up in the hospital, so he had to be pretty messed up. You don't go to the hospital with a little buzz. You go because your passed out where you shouldn't be and they can't get you up. 99% of kids who do too much booze don't end up in the ER. </p>

<p>“I value your kids life over someone in another country.”</p>

<p>Absolutely and I value my kids lives over yours. That's normal. May not be nice but it's normal. When you have kids, you'll feel the same way. </p>

<p>If your kids live with the possibility of a draft to support a war we don't believe in, you'll value your kids and your neighbor's kids lives ahead of someone else in another country too. That's called being a parent. I don't want my kids or my neighbor's kids to die so an executive can make a buck in arms sales. </p>

<p>Yup I am cold hearted. You did nail it on that. So what's your point? ;)</p>

54

<p>It doesn't matter if the kid is 20 or 21. He was drunk enough to require hospitalization!!!!! The issue isn't underage drinking, but drinking to the point of severe intoxication.</p>

55

<p>
[quote]
"Drinking problem" is merely a euphenism for alcoholism.

[/quote]

Not really. Many may make this leap but in reality 'drinking problem' is fairly simple - it means that one's drinking is problematic. </p>

<p>I've had employees reporting to me that have fallen into this category. Their drinking was a problem but I don't believe they weren't alcoholics - they just had some bad habits (there's a difference). It was a problem because they were drinking at lunch and came back to work having had too much. It wasn't a one-off, they did it repeatedly. However, after a fairly serious discussion as to the impact of such actions, they stopped immediately. There was no longer any issue at all. The drinking was no longer a problem (as far as work went).</p>

<p>If a student was caught these two times he probably got away without being caught many more times. It appears that despite knowing the consequences he continued his behavior (unlike my employee). This is definitely a drinking problem since he allowed his drinking to impact his life whether he's an alcoholic or not.</p>

56

<p>Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (also known as "alcohol addiction) are clearly defined technical terms in the DSM-IV.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.mentalhealthchannel.net/alcohol/diagnosis.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mentalhealthchannel.net/alcohol/diagnosis.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

57

<p>Does this kid have a drinking problem? Sure does. He just got kicked out of school for drinking against rules. He would have a better chance making his next step if he does go to some program. In my book, however, he has bigger problems than drinking. Yes, he may be an alcoholic. Certainly possible but from info given not possible to diagnose as such. The big problem I see is that he cannot toe the line even when he is knows the consequences are going to be dire if he has any further infractions. In fact, he repeats the same transgresssion that got him into trouble in the first place.
He is unfortunately not a rarity. THere are some behaviours that are so prevalent among kids that age, that they really get the idea that those behaviours are fine even when they are against the rules, the law and have many far reaching consequences as well. Ok, so he got caught drinking. But look at all those people still drinking and they did not get caught, they are not punished, and I've drunk so many times before without getting caught, so what are the chances that I get caught again? That is the stupid mentality and rationale that so many of these kids have. Not to say adults don't do the same. Parking, speeding transgression are often justified the same way. Stupid, yes, common, yes too.
Stupid and bad luck, a bad combination, and I would not want someone like that around my school.</p>

58

<p>Opie, I agree with you. Stupidity is the main problem.</p>

59

<p>"As far as a slap on the wrist, for the first time maybe. That's where the consuling comes in and the warnings. I am sure if you researched you'd find their policy on drug/alcohol violations. In the big world institutions get SUED for failing to have a policy. So I would bet he was lectured on what happens for #2."</p>

<p>Exactly, my point. In an immediate response to the first incident, the school should have provided necessary assistance i.e. counseling and punished him accordingly and reasonably. Instead they did nothing to help and when he inevitably drank again they resorted to abruptly suspending him for an entire year, which might ultimately destroy his self-confidence. Initially, they hadn’t penalized him or even to bothered to help, which subsequently attenuated his behavior and in a sense even condoned it. The school conveyed the message that it was just a trivial matter that could be brushed aside. </p>

<p>You keep assuming he has a problem. MOST COLLEGE STUDENTS DRINK. Most just don’t get caught. So, if the school really wanted to practice fair treatment they would have to suspend half their student population.</p>

<p>Also, I am not stating that he doesn’t have a problem, he may very well do, but that is not for us to decide and is definitely not for us to pass judgment, especially since you probably drank underage as well…don’t fool yourself. </p>

<p>“But the first time... he ended up in the hospital, so he had to be pretty messed up”</p>

<p>Not necessarily. I have read of multiple instances in which students have been capable enough to walk home, but cops have escorted them to the hospital anyway.</p>

<p>Absolutely and I value my kids lives over yours. That's normal. May not be nice but it's normal. When you have kids, you'll feel the same way. </p>

<p>No, I won’t.</p>

<p>“If your kids live with the possibility of a draft to support a war we don't believe in, you'll value your kids and your neighbor's kids lives ahead of someone else in another country too. That's called being a parent. I don't want my kids or my neighbor's kids to die so an executive can make a buck in arms sales.”</p>

<p>Sorry, but that is your own fault. You, the American people, elect presidents the likes of Bush. You know what such men are capable of and yet you provide them with unlimited power anyway. You have no problem with the president sending young boys to their death and even worse imploring them to kill others (often people that are defending their country), but as soon as it might affect you, you become defensive. If America stopped ****ing the world off i.e. invading other countries and slaughtering their people and walking around with a cavalier “holier than thou” attitude it wouldn’t find itself in the predicaments it’s now in.</p>

<p>I’ve lived on American military bases almost my entire life (twelve of seventeen years) and lost friends and my family has been affected by the advent of wars for generations, so I’m sure I know much more about sacrifice than you. </p>

<p>“your neighbor's kids lives ahead of someone else in another country too.”</p>

<p>We are all humans; we are all entitled to life no matter where we live. No one life is more valuable than another. We are all born equal.</p>

60

<p>Also I would like to add just because he visited the hosptial doesn't necessarily mean he has a problem. This is one of my posts from another thread:</p>

<p>"I vehemently disagree. I lived in Italy for four years and attended an American DOD school. Although, laws in Italy prohibit consumption under the age of sixteen, virtually anyone who can see over the counter can buy a drink (I saw a group of ten year olds buy a bottle of Superior once, which I confiscated from them). Initially, when Americans moved to Italy, they would go crazy and drink all they could. They would drink until they fell over, puked, and passed out. From afar my American friends and I would jestingly dub them as "dumb Americans", even though we had done the same at first. After a brief period of time, the phase would ware off and "the dumb Americans" would generally become responsible alcohol consumers. They would drink tolerable amounts and we would no longer have to escort them home. Eventually, they would become the group that jokes from afar, as the new "dumb Americans" begin to prepare for prayer to the porcelain god."</p>

<p>Most of my friends and myself included, don't drink now that we are back in the U.S. and yet we often did in Italy. Were we alcoholics because we drank on occasion? Apparently, not since we have had no problem refraining from alcohol use.</p>