<p>Pre-Med/Bioengineering Major </p>
<p>Any input??</p>
<p>Brown PLME is about as good as it gets if you want to be an MD. IMO, Cal doesn’t compare in terms of undergrad experience.</p>
<p>I agree with the poster above.</p>
<p>In my opinion, Berkeley (Regents) is superior to Brown.
You will leave Berkeley (which is an amazing school and a beautiful vibrant, student-friendly place) and make more money than you would if you go to Brown.</p>
<p>Brown is great, but Berkeley is better. </p>
<p>At Berkeley, you can explore on a multitude of activities and works, either scholarly-related or otherwise. The Berkeley resources are huge and unparalleled. Some equipment can only be found there. If you’re a highly achieving type, or the type that can discover something for the betterment of the human race, there are very, very few places on earth that will hone your skills and talents so you can explore more and discover more, and Berkeley is one of those extremely few places that will house you with the kind of talents you have. Brown does not have the resources that Berkeley has, that’s why people at Berkeley discover things, win Nobel or other prestigious awards and help uplift the general standard of the human race. You won’t be able to do that if you will go to Brown. Brown is great and all, and its improving… But it’s still too “teaching based”…sort of like an extension of your high school. Berkeley is a university in its truest sense. The academic community is vibrant. The professors are brilliant. The students are smart. The facilities are boundless. The academic activities are world-class. It’s a multi-billion entity. Only Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Princeton, Caltech and Yale can rival Berkeley.</p>
<p>Again, if you’ll go to Berkeley, you’re most likely going to be paid more/earn more than you would when you graduate from Brown. Check this out. </p>
<p>[Top</a> State Universities By Salary Potential](<a href=“2024 College Rankings by Salary Potential | Payscale”>2024 College Rankings by Salary Potential | Payscale)</p>
<p>Starting Median Salary<br>
Berkeley - $59,900
Brown University - $56,200 </p>
<p>Mid-Career Median Salary
Berkeley - $112,000
Brown University - $109,000</p>
<p>What are the cost differences? What kind of loans would you (not your parents) have to take out for each?</p>
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<p>Honestly, those differences are very minute. It’s not as if one is $200k versus $120k – the difference of ~3k in salary should not sway the OP into going to Berkeley over Brown. Please.</p>
<p>Have you visited both schools? I think the environments would be quite different (huge state school vs. smaller private)</p>
<p>Brown for undergrad. Berkeley for grad school. Best of both worlds ;)</p>
<p>Right, because 3k in salary difference has nothing to do with having a huge population in California, likely to stay in California, where geography alone would easily dictate increased pay relative to everywhere in the country except maybe NYC.</p>
<p>Do you know you want to be a doctor (MD)? If so, PLME is quite clearly the better choice. If not, it depends on what you’re looking for.</p>
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<p>And fwiw, it’s statements like these where your otherwise often rational advise makes you come across as an idiot. I’m sorry that you think teaching (an integral part of learning) focus is not a good thing for undergraduates, but to suggest that unequivocally one place is better than the other is utterly ridiculous. In fact, these two places are so different than even the notion that “better” or “worse”, rather than “different”, applies is nonsense.</p>
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<p>Maybe it won’t. But who knows? At least, it appears through the Forbes Magazine’s list that Brown isn’t at all better than Berkeley as what hmom5 and her cohorts have been saying all along. If anything, Berkeley is better than Brown.</p>
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<p>and where do you think Brown grads would end up working, in RI? lol</p>
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<p>Why won’t you say something about the post of hmom5? I think it was utterly nonsense too. lol </p>
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<p>Brown = teaching focused.
Berkeley = an excellent mix of teaching and research focused.</p>
<p>which one do you think is the better approach?</p>
<p>Do you have to pay extra to go to Brown? If so take the Regents</p>
<p>The salary difference simply speaks to the fact that the vast majority of Cal grads stay in CA while Brown grads spread out. The cost of living in much higher in CA than most of the Country and salaries are a bit higher.</p>
<p>My husband, a Cal alum, is sitting here telling me to tell all the kids Cal undergrad is not fun and to choose an ivy, any ivy! Save Cal for grad school which is what it’s reputation is based on and where it’s deserved.</p>
<p>I think you may be missing the point that it’s Brown PLME. That’s an 8 year medical school program. The student can major in any subject. NO MCATs. Guaranteed acceptance to medical school (with top residency placements). A fairly stress-free undergrad experience in a school known for “teaching” undergrads. This kid wants to be a doctor or he wouldn’t have applied to PLME. I suggest you go to Brown, if you can afford it.</p>
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<p>Okay; then Brown wins in this case. That’s a no brainer. That specific program is better than a conventional traditional baccalaureate degree of any school including HYPSM + Caltech & Berkeley.</p>
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<p>Again, you have been declaring statements without bases, so I take it that you only speculate things. I would trust your word if you can back it up, even by a little. This is CC, not some kind of a funfair or celebrity forum. Therefore, we need to be responsible for what we say here. </p>
<p>Again, for the millionth times, please back up your assertion. It would help you convince people when you have evidences to show. But if you don’t, it only means then that what you have are just mere opinions. </p>
<p>And, for your information, Cal did not just beat Brown in the Forbes survey. It also outranked 2 other Ivy League schools, one of which is in New York and the other is the “mother” or “host” university of Wharton, your alma matter school. </p>
<p>So, to follow your logic, DHYPSC send their grads to work in NY and California. While Cornell, UPenn and Brown grads are spread all over the country. How would you support that?</p>
<p>What about UCLA, USC, Pomona, Scripps College and other elite private colleges in California? Why are their graduates don’t get paid as much as Berkeley grads are? So, we will speculate again and say that their grads are spread out too? That UCLA, USC, Pomona, UC Davis, UCSB grads are spread out. </p>
<p>And, what about Dartmouth? Don’t you think Dartmouth grads are also spread out just like Brown grads are? </p>
<p>There are a lot of flaws in your argument. I’m sorry but cannot accept that. </p>
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<p>But your husband is just one of the hundreds of thousands of Cal alumni all over the world. If it’s really true that he’s telling you that he’s not happy at Cal, then he does not speak for the whole Cal alumni body. Besides, which year did he go to Cal, 50s, 60s?? My wife went to Cal in 1993 to 1997 and earned a degree in economics. She’s very proud that she went to Cal. That contradicts your husband’s experience at Cal. Besides, no school is perfect. I have former colleagues from Harvard who were not happy at Harvard. So, if we would follow your logic, let’s all dissuade students not to go for Harvard because there’s a chance that they might not be happy at Harvard?</p>
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<p>Which is why what hmom says was not uninformed in the slightest.
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<p>Actually, Brown has at least as much focus on research as Berkeley has on teaching. In my opinion, the way the balance is struck at Brown = better, more meaningful undergraduate experience. Teaching is a focus, yes, but research is far from forgotten at Brown. Just because our setup makes it less likely a professor will be able to pump out research constantly (because they have additional responsibilities, smaller lab groups, etc), doesn’t mean we don’t have quite a few quality researchers. I have found that nearly every Berkeley cheerleader has been surprised just how impressive out faculty actually is when they go and take a look at who is here.</p>
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<p>Again, the point here is quite simple. Many, many in state students. Large state, large economy, people who have their family ties in the state of California. Result== highly likely that a very large percentage of students will be working in California after college. Not all, maybe not even most, but certainly a larger percent than those working at Brown. It’s just a very simple conjecture that’s rather logical that demonstrates why looking at salary differences of 3k is a complete wash because there are many other factors that go into that kind of measure that cannot make “quality” as precise as <3% difference.</p>
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I love it when people talk in absolutes…:rolleyes:</p>
<p>My years at Cal were some of the best of my life, and I look back at them fondly. I’m sorry your husband did not have a great experience…</p>
<p>OP, I agree with what others have said. If you can afford it and your dream is to be a medical doctor, Brown’s PLME program is the way to go.</p>
<p>Melody</p>
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<p>Like I said, Berkeley outranked 3 Ivy schools, not just Brown. And one of which is in NY. NY companies pay more than Cal companies do, don’t they?</p>
<p>UCLA, USC, Pomona, Scripps, UCSD, UC Davis and the like are very prestigious schools too with very high percentages of Cal residents in their respective student bodies as well. How come they’re not as high as Berkeley’s on Forbes’ list?</p>
<p>Also, please explain the huge discrepancy registered between Brown vs Dartmouth.</p>
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<p>I have never said or claimed that Brown faculty aren’t impressive. Of course, they must have an impressive resumes for an Ivy League school to absorb them. Why would Brown, a prestigious, expensive, Ivy League school hire a less than stellar faculty to handle some very talented students?
What I was only saying is…when you try to rate them collectively and benchmark them against Berkeley’s, they wouldn’t match Berkeley’s. </p>
<p>Now, as to the topic, I seriously think that Brown wins this one, even though Brown’s med school isn’t top 10 in the nation. It’s hard to get accepted to good med school now a days. How much more 4 years from now…</p>
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Btw, if you don’t constantly publish, you won’t stand a chance at publishing. That’s the nature of research. The group my cousin researched with at Cal, the prof gives his grad students a problem, whoever comes up with the best solution gets to publish it and present it at conferences.
Brown against Berkeley is like going to war with a pistol against an enemy that has an atomic bomb (literally, as they discovered plutonium in 1940.)
If both cost the same, Brown PLME wins.<br>
If the first 4 years set you back by more than 100k, Berkeley wins.</p>