<p>Not only are people paid better in California, but that salary scale only weighs the overall salary potential, not the salary potential for Regents vs PLME, where it may sway the other way. Go Brown!</p>
<p>
I think the whole measure is bad and this is just one easy way to show why.</p>
<p>Look at where the students come from. If you stay in your own state for school, I bet you’ll find you’re far more likely to stay in your own state for good. It’s conjecture, but it’s not something I think most would disagree with. People tend to go “home” (wherever their family is) and I bet they stay “home” at even higher rates when they don’t go out of state for schooling.</p>
<p>As for the med school not being top ten, our Match List suggests we’re rather underrated: [Match</a> List](<a href=“http://med.brown.edu/about/match]Match”>http://med.brown.edu/about/match)</p>
<p>modestmelody, please explain the huge discrepancy registered between Brown vs. Dartmouth.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My lab group publishes about 2x a year on average, still hasn’t stopped us from getting our paper’s published literally within weeks of submission (one revision request, published within 24hrs of us receiving the desired revisions).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Could be many things. Dartmouth, so far as I know, doesn’t supply me with the data I suspect would back this up, however, a large percentage of Brown students are in the non-profit sector and I would be willing to bet that this number is higher here than many of our peers. They don’t report so I can’t say for sure, but that’s impression I’ve been given over the years. That would account for some of that. 71% of Brown science students in physical science areas get a Ph.D versus 47% at Dartmouth (<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/559039-top-producers-phds-physical-sciences-comp-sci-math.html?highlight=production[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/559039-top-producers-phds-physical-sciences-comp-sci-math.html?highlight=production</a>), and since the PhD median salary is below that of DMouth, it would suggest more people being involved in the business, management, and consulting side of science and earning more as opposed to research.</p>
<p>EDIT (this trend follows even looking at the university as a whole, 10.6% for Brown, 7.6% for DMouth <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/676826-ranking-ivies-recent-phd-production.html?highlight=production[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/676826-ranking-ivies-recent-phd-production.html?highlight=production</a>). Median salaries for those with a PhD according to Google <a href=“http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Doctorate_(PhD)/Salary[/url]”>http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Doctorate_(PhD)/Salary</a>).</p>
<p>There’s lots of information that is critical about the type of things student’s do after college, where, and why that adjust these numbers that have nothing to do with quality of education or even actual potential. We’d have to see how people working the same field with the same qualifications did relative to each other over time to really make any call about this, and these studies just don’t go that deep.</p>
<p>modestmelody, the study does not include phd students. the number quoted is for people 10 years into their profession or something like that. Whatever you just wrote still does not explain the difference between Dartmouth and Brown. And whatever you wrote before that about students going back home does not explain the difference between Dartmouth and Brown. I guess at Brown, they still give you a gold star for trying.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>L o L . . . I would give modestmelody a gold star for her excellent display of having very high “school spirit”. Really. </p>
<p>Anyways, the stats only go to show that some Ivy League schools aren’t worth the extra bucks when you have Berkeley as the other option.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Have you checked the facts of those med schools rated in the top 10?
Brown is a great university. But med isn’t one of its strengths.
It’s med school isn’t even in the top 25 in the nation.
[Search</a> - Best Medical Schools - Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/med/search]Search”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/med/search)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Thank you for your insightful response which addresses why higher percentages of students earning PhDs (for which the median salary is lower than Dartmouth’s median salary, and Brown’s for that matter) does not account for the difference of a few thousand dollars. I’m not sure how much this accounts for the difference, but the fact that very simple-minded critique can start to poke pretty reasonable holes means the data is probably not all that useful. You didn’t address the very real fact that many of the factors I discussed would effect salary and concurrently have nothing to do with how well a school prepares you.</p>
<p>RML-- how does posting the USNWR list address the fact that I feel our Match List suggests we’re currently underrated? Our match list suggests that you won’t be at some significant disadvantage being educated at Brown in medicine. I’m also interested in how Brown fairs against schools that are of a similar age. We only granted our first modern MD in 1975. 31 is not bad for research for a small, new school, that only accepted students from outside of DMouth and Brown last year, and again, it seems based on the match list that you’re not really held back after Brown Med from getting into the more competitive residency programs (which is the real reason to go to better med schools).</p>
<p>Anyway, what the stats only go to show is that some people continue to narrowly define the purpose of education as preparation to be successful in the job market whereas the institution itself actually views itself as having a far broader mission that has no direct connection to prep for non-academic work.</p>
<p>Modest, don’t bother, he’s a Berkeley ■■■■■ without an understanding of the big picture.</p>
<p>hmom can’t come up with a constructive argument so she resorts to name calling…just makes her assumptions based of her husband’s experience, who probably would complain about the lack of attention at any research university. There really is no way to reconcile the face that Berkeley UG is 4 times bigger than Brown and yet the average Berkeley student makes more than a Brown student.</p>
<p>I’ve posted the stats to back up my positions over and over. I do believe RML is a ■■■■■. I have no dog in this race, but wait, let me guess, you’re a Berkeley student…</p>
<p>DH later went to Stanford where he was very happy.</p>
<p>^ You don’t have a dog in this race, but you seem to like to “■■■■■” UC threads and tout your grand undergrad experience. </p>
<p>Let’s see…husband went to Berkeley for undergrad then Stanford for grad.
You went to Penn for undergrad then ______ for grad?</p>
<p>:rolleyes:…doesn’t seem like Berkeley undergrad held him back.</p>
<p>Oh-- and I just learned something for all you BSers in this forum who just tout whatever statistic says what you want-- the PayScale.com numbers exclude anyone with a degree past their bachelors.</p>
<p>So, the fact that 78% of Brown’s population has a higher degree at the 10 year mark means that 15.5 years out you’re looking at ~30% of Brown’s population for your sample. 3k difference across the ~30% of Brown that chose not to go to grad school is meaningful?</p>
<p>Im sorry but Browns Pre med program is the best in the country therefor UCB is not comparable YAY = ) CHOOSE BROWN…Regent is tempting though = (</p>
<p>BC, I have a husband and 4 sibs who did not enjoy their UC experiences the way I enjoyed college. As they will all tell you, until they got a good look at what a top private school experience was like, they had no idea how big the difference was.</p>
<p>I should also explain that I spent much of last year visiting college campuses. public and private, across CA as I was interviewing for teaching positions. I wanted to love the UCs as their locations were places I wanted to live. What I saw at the undergrad level were schools in crisis with increasingly large classes, budget shortfalls, very low 4 year graduation rates, profs looking to leave in droves and tremendous professor apathy in general. </p>
<p>Kids come here in ernest to ask about the difference between schools. So my only reason for posting is to give another opinion to counter some of the blind posts from those who have no comparison, haven’t been inside of these schools for 25 years or don’t realize that the excellence does not generally extend to undergrad education.</p>
<p>As for my husband, the degree got him where he wanted to go. His comments are about the experience versus what he sees out 3 kids getting at schools that excel in undergrad education. I’ll also mention that as a Haas grad he went back to hire from there for decades. He doesn’t anymore.</p>
<p>modestmelody is still confused and still trying. another gold star.</p>
<ol>
<li>Both schools send a good portion of its students to graduate schools. It’s not 30% vs. 100%.</li>
<li>Furthermore, 30% is a large enough sample. What’s the average turnout for the past few elections? 30%?<br></li>
<li>Those who do not pursue higher ed are happy with their jobs and their pay, so it’s a valid comparison.</li>
</ol>
<p>
I don’t know what the comparison is. I suspect it may not be 30 v. 30. I suspect that the very different student populations at these schools (attracted to these places for different reasons) choose different careers and different paths afterwards.
I didn’t realize that ~480 students who specifically don’t take the majority path represent an accurate picture of the whole.
And as I said in response to point one, what is there to suggest that the geographic distribution and the type of job those people are doing across both Berkeley and Brown are the same? This is one of those moments where the median is not good information because the difference between the two schools is significantly less than the difference between students at the same school. Classic social science right there-- you don’t have a whole lot of strong evidence to say that your variable is creating the effect when you have almost nothing built in to account for other variables that demonstrate a high range of different outcomes and when changing only the variable you’re examining (the school) results in a shift of the median which is far, far less than the differences amongst people for which that variable is constant.</p>
<p>I still know more about how to analyze statistical data than you do, and I studied physical sciences at a school that apparently is simply good for a “gold star” for trying.</p>
<p>middsmith = still not addressing the majority of my posts and largely wrong about the parts he/she is addressing. Way to go.</p>
<p>Brownbear is still ■■■■■-like, even if he/she favors my school.</p>
<p>Brown Engineering:
</p>
<p>I have no idea if 40% is a high number to be going to graduate school right away, but if it is, that could go a long way in explaining the difference right there. One area where students would be expected to make significantly more money with just a bachelor’s, Brown may send more people to graduate school from that program. Does anyone have the Cal numbers? I couldn’t find anything looking around real quick… UCBChemE?</p>
<p>480 out of whatever to make up 30% is a good enough sample. Follow sakky’s posts, Cal has plenty of English major grads who work in Starbuck’s or Shop and Stop or Dunkin Donut or whatever.<br>
I’m very clear what you’re trying to say, Berkeley grads stay in CA, thus make more on average. But what you failed (and therefore, don’t deserve a gold star) is 'splaining the discrepancy between Brown and Dartmouth.<br>
Let it be clear, I think 3k difference is negligible. However, for a student to pay 40k/year to go to Brown only to come back to CA and make the same as a Cal grad is very silly, borderline stupid.</p>