You wanted to love the location and are looking for employment as a prof…someone who worked 30 years as a MD for a investment bank…and you turn it down because the schools have “increasingly large classes, budget shortfalls and very low 4 year graduation rates”? Sorry, but this doesn’t pass the smell test.</p>
<p>Ivies are cutting back on employment too in these tough economic times.</p>
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His experience is very personal…if you need someone to coddle you, Cal’s not the environment…doesn’t mean others will have the same experience as your husband.</p>
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That may be the case for you and your husband, for me, it’s been 9 years.</p>
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If it gets you at the same destination for a cheaper fare, what does it matter? Nobody cares 3 years after you graduate what you did for undergrad.</p>
<p>This is a slam dunk with RML presenting the best supporting info. Berkeley is much stronger than Brown and you’ll have plenty more options upon graduation. Plus, where were you rather spend all those years…Berkeley, California or Providence, RI? Slam dunk!</p>
<p>I’m not sure what your smell test is BC, but for me seeing unhappy potential colleagues and knowing many were hoping to get out, frustrated kids lamenting they couldn’t graduate in 4 years and were being taught by TA’s whose English they couldn’t understand was alone enough for me to pass.</p>
<p>^I think RML has been reincarnated, he’s now a saint!</p>
How quaint…instead of thinking about yourself for 30 years, the investment banker is concerned about kids. :rolleyes: </p>
<p>Look, you have been spouting the most stereotypical BS about my alma mater…and you have probably never been inside a Berkeley discussion or lecture session. I didn’t have one foreign TA in my entire academic career at Berkeley, but that’s beside the point. </p>
<p>Ivies don’t have foreign grad students with limited English acting as TAs?</p>
This smell test: were being taught by TA’s whose English they couldn’t understand
If you indeed came to the UCs for a teaching job, you will know this is not true.
Only professors teach classes. If the classes were big enough, they’d break it down to groups of 15-20 students. They call them “discussion session.” The TAs head those discussions. Discussion session is meant as a supplement to the lecture taught by real professors.</p>
<p>wow i didn’t mean to start such a controversy haha.</p>
<p>basically, i would be paying full (besides the $1000 Regents’ at Berkeley) price at both schools.
I live in CA and my parents make just enough so that obama will raise their taxes</p>
<p>if there’s any other things i should let u know (obviously not SSN or anything haha), tell me.</p>
<p>I think even the Berkeley cheerleaders like RML when reading the benefits of PLME would agree that the program affords you with many advantages you won’t have at Berkeley. If you’re sure you do want to go into medicine, I personally think you’d be crazy to turn down a program where you’re already accepted into a medical school with excellent results during the matching process.</p>
<p>More people removed from the sample = skewed results, even if their salaries are being taken into account. I’d bet that the top earners (with just a bachelor’s) at any school could easily complete graduate work, and the fact that more of those “potential” top earners actually go to grad school in one place versus another can account for a difference. Is that the total with Dartmouth? I’m not sure, we’d have to look at career breakdowns and lots of other factors as well. But I’m willing to say that there is a probably a good portion of that number effected by the gap of 5% or so in PhDs-- that’s pulling out a full 80 students who would likely be top earners out of a sample size of ~500.</p>
<p>What you fail to realize that a narrow view of higher ed which says that increased earning potential is the sole reason for attending is not the one all people hold. There is a significant difference in the education process at Brown versus Berkeley, and if you’re likely to learn in one environment better than the other, likely to be more inspired to succeed in one versus the other, be afforded a particular opportunity you see as central to your learning process at one versus the other, then really, salary differences which are smaller across groups than within groups are not going to keep you from going to one place versus the other.</p>
<p>The reason the OP should go to Brown is because Brown is guaranteeing his/her acceptance into medical school already.</p>
<p>^ If you are good enough for Brown PLME, you will do fine at other top 25-30 med schools that are arguably way better than Alpert Brown med to begin with.</p>
<p>If you want a “better” med school than Alpert, then go to UC Berkeley. If you are fine with just Alpert, then go to Brown PLME. Someone of Brown’s PLME caliber shouldn’t be complaining about pesky vicious competitive premeds and MCAT tests anyways!.. Less competition for other ppl to get into med school if you went to Brown PLME :D</p>
<p>Boo, number 31 at an up-and-coming school with some unique focus on humanities training for doctors and a guaranteed admission is sooooo much worse than number 30 you may get into :(.</p>
<p>Just screwing with you ;).</p>
<p>I think the Match List posted earlier made my point on that though. Sure, we’re not the best school in the country, but it’ll hardly hold you back.</p>
<p>Modestmelody is right… unless you plan to go into academic medicine, medical school rankings doesn’t really mean anything…</p>
<p>Brown Alpert is known for matching very well into top residency programs so if you want to specialize in a field of medicine to make extra bucks… Alpert will do great in that respect…</p>
<p>If you wanted to do MD/PhD and pursue a career in research or academic medicine, Alpert doesn’t really shine because it’s not quite known for research… Just to become a doctor, the Brown PLME program will save you a lot of work and a lot stress! It’s a great med school too… I would DIE to say I want to Brown med… Ridiculously hard to get into…</p>
<p>hmom5, I’m not ■■■■■■■■… If there’s anyone who’s ■■■■■■■■ here, I think it’s you.
I just reacted to your constant and endless barrage of bashing state universities especially the very elite ones such as Cal, UCLA, Michigan and UVa. And please, you haven’t supplied your arguments with proofs. Instead, you’ve always relied on your husband’s past stories, hearsay and some personal anecdotes…and it’s sad because you think they’re gospel truths… </p>
<p>Berkeley isn’t perfect. Sure its has some problems. And, as a government funded, the people are more vocal about their angst and unhappiness with the school. That’s the nature of large, state schools, and something you can hardly hear at private schools because people there are “well guarded”, so to speak. Do you think the staff at small private schools have as much liberty to complain and voice out their angst as those at large state schools? I very much doubt it. </p>
<p>Melody, I already said that Brown’s med school is great. I only said that it’s not a top 10 med school. You shouldn’t’ be offended by that as med school rank doesn’t really mean that much, and the differences between ranks (for med school) are quite negligible. I can name at least 10 med school that are much better regarded and generally superior to Brown’s. And, that is not bashing Brown when someone says something like that. There are a lot of great med school in the US and Brown is certainly one of them. However, it is not a top 10 med school.</p>
<p>And I’m saying, because of the bolded above, what was constructive about making that comment? What did that do to help the OP, to simply throw out that it’s not a top ten med school? Who was more helpful in this case, me posting the match list to demonstrate what kind of options are available after Brown med, or you who through a ranking you admit is not all that meaningful? In the context of the posts you make, this is precisely the kind of snide side comment that makes you appear to be overly biased in your posting. It doesn’t offend me, it’s just indicative of your overall tone toward any school that’s not designed to be a research powerhouse ala Berkeley, and it is the kind of statement which, taken in isolation, leaves the OP with bad advice.</p>
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Actually, they have more freedom. In fact, Berkeley has been the site of some of the most vigorous displays of support for academic freedom by the faculty, but this has been a direct result of being exposed to some of the most rigorous challenges to academic freedom because of Berkeley’s status as a public institution. Because taxpayers support the university, they, from time to time, determine there is some greater accountability they desire from their professors. This accountability almost always attempts to infringe upon the rights to academic freedom. While Berkeley professors have not simply “sat down” when these attempts were made, they have been exposed to more systematic challenges to their rights as faculty than any of the private schools where apparently people are “well guarded”. Basically, your assumption here is baseless.</p>
<p>If all things are equal, Brown PLME is a better deal. But OP said OP will pay full price at both. (Berkeley Regents nets her $1000).
So it’s 200k vs. 90k.
Can modestmelody explain why it’s a good idea to hedge more than 100k for a medical school acceptance? It’s not like OP can’t get into any medical school from Berkeley.</p>
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Are you saying Brown inspires more students to advance, affords worldly opportunities not found at Berkeley?
If you aren’t, then it’s perfectly fine to only account for those who work immediately after finishing school. The others who continue to study shouldn’t matter as they aren’t at a disadvantage one way or another. I still think Berkeley grads go to better graduate schools.<br>
I’m not sure what you just said. what does “accountability almost always attempts to infringe upon the rights to academic freedom” mean anyway?</p>
<p>You have no idea where students at Brown or Berkeley go on to graduate school. Considering all my friends who have chosen to go are going to top 10 programs, I’m not sure that there is such a thing as “better”. I don’t know what happens at Berkeley, I only know anecdotally about the people I know as a current college senior. I’m not sure you even have that, limited though it may be, perspective.</p>
<p>What I’m saying is not that one places offers these experiences and one place doesn’t. What I’m saying is which experiences, presented how, under what structures, in a particular culture is unique to EVERY institution.</p>