<p>Asian male, international school in China. Probably international relations/polisci.</p>
<p>I can't decide between Brown and Berkeley. Brown is smaller, more liberal, and more 'intimate', but coming from an international school in China, I'm not sure how I'll adapt to being a minority. Whereas Berkeley is much bigger, more opportunities and clubs - and strange as this sounds, I might feel more comfortable being surrounded by 'my own kind', coming from Asia.<br>
Don't get me wrong, since I came from an international school, I am comfortable hanging out with people of all races - it's just that I hate the feeling of being a minority.
I'm pretty extroverted, but let's face it, even the extroverts from international schools are considered nerdy. Not sure how that will translate to college.</p>
<p>I don't know which has better weather.</p>
<p>Berkeley seems a bit easier (although it's still very hard). The thing is, I'll probably go back to work in China - and in Asia, Berkeley's reputation is stronger than Brown's.</p>
<p>I would have pushed you to go for Berkeley because I truly think that it is the better school academically specially for your chosen major. But when you mentioned you’re Chinese, that made me thinking. If you’ll go to Brown, you’ll be a minority there, but you’ll probably get the attention that you want since it’s a small school. If you’ll go to Berkeley, I think you’ll be compensated well when you go back to your homeland someday because Berkeley has a great alumni network there. But whilst you’re at Berkeley working towards your undergraduate degree, you will be just another Asian there as the school’s student body is something like 40% Asian. So, think what matters to you more, undergrad years or post college years. That is, assuming you’re not gonna go for graduate studies in the future.</p>
<p>Personally, I’d go for Berkeley in a heartbeat. But for your case, I think it’s Brown.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I’m doing ED</p></li>
<li><p>I’m not quite sure what you mean. Are you saying that because I’m Asian I’ll get more attention at Brown?
Social life is important to me as well. I fit in well with the white kids at my school too, but my school is exceptionally ‘nerdy’. As stereotypical as this might sound, I don’t know whether I’ll feel like I’ll fit in better at Berkeley.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>You can apply Brown RD and Berkeley, then decide later which school to attend if you get accepted by both schools. If you apply Brown ED, you can still apply Berkeley, but if you get accepted by Brown, then you have to go to Brown.
IMO, you will fit better in Berkeley, social-wise. I live in the San francisco bay area, there are many Asians here and I think you certainly will feel very comfortable down here.
Good luck!</p>
<p>If you’re unsure about either, don’t apply to Brown EA/ED (I’m not sure what Brown offers). As mentioned above, Berkeley doesn’t have ED or EA. I would apply to both and see where you get accepted and look at the finances then make a decision.</p>
<p>Either school will provide a great education but the environments will be quite different.</p>
<p>OP, I was saying two things why you should go for Brown instead. One, because Brown is smaller, you’d probably get more attention there. Not that you’re not going to get it at Berkeley. But Brown is so small everyone can easily ask for attention and get it. Two, since you’re Chinese, you’d add to Brown’s diversity. In contrast, if you’ll go to Berkeley, you’ll just be another smart Asian there. Smart Asians at Berkeley aren’t special and it’s harder to shine out under such environment.</p>
<p>The social scene at Berkeley is superior to Brown’s, from what I’ve gathered. Berkeley students and alumni are so full of school spirit. Though that part intrigued me a bit when I found out that the alumni giving rate of the school is minimal compared to Brown’s. </p>
<p>To recap, Berkeley is the superior school academically. Almost all of Berkeley’s departments are top 10 in the world. But Berkeley isn’t for everyone. And, I think it has just too many Asians than it should really have.</p>
<p>This is just my personal opinion, however. So you can take my word with a pinch of salt.</p>
<p>Since $$ don’t seem to be an issue. I say visit both schools if you haven’t yet. </p>
<p>As I told my D when she applied last year (both Brown and Berkeley were on her list), if you’re lucky you’ll get into one of your first choice schools. If you’re really lucky, you’ll get into two.</p>
<p>I don’t think this is true. Berkeley is known for being cut-throat competitive, while Brown is known for inflated GPA’s and professors giving easy A’s.</p>
<p>I agree with RML but for different reasons.</p>
<p>Brown is something like 15% Asian, so while that is clearly a smaller percentage than Berkeley, there’s still enough of a critical mass for you to feel comfortable. Moreover, Brown is going to have a lot more international students. While Berkeley is taking more OOS students, it’s still overwhelmingly Californian. You may find that you have less in common with Chinese-Americans than you think.</p>
<p>Difficulty of getting in: Brown >> Berkeley</p>
<p>Academic quality: Berkeley>Brown
International reputation: Berkeley>>>>>Brown
Weather: Berkeley>>>>>>>>>>>>Brown
For an Asian: SF Area >>>>>>>>> Providence Area</p>
<p>As others have said, the Admissions committees will do a lot of the work for you.</p>
<p>However, the other posters are not necessarily giving a fully accurate view of international perspectives or even educational qualities of the respective schools.</p>
<p>Firstly, in Asia, Berkeley may have the greater reputation. In Europe (where I have lived for well over a decade, working across the continent), Brown has by some margin the better reputation. In the USA, where I lived for three decades, Brown again has the better reputation… except on the West Coast. So it really depends on where you want to be after graduation.</p>
<p>Secondly, in terms of academics, one is not better than the other. Brown has a higher percentage of smaller classes and more faculty-student interaction at the undergrad level which lifts its performance – it is an undergrad oriented school. Berkeley, however, does have the stronger graduate program. In political science, Berkeley may have an edge.
In international relations, one really does not have the edge over the other (trust me, I deal with international relations). </p>
<p>Thirdly, one is not better or easier than the other. Brown’s grading is hardly a place where As are easy though they may be more plentiful. Due to the open curriculum, as most students select courses they want to attend they are more likely to put in the extra time to get results. Considering the extremely high placements Brown has at advancing its graduates to the top professional and grad schools (including Berkeley) and top firms and govt bodies, clearly others value the Brown education rather a lot.</p>
<p>Fourthly, always know who your advice is coming from. RML and UCBChemEGrad are Berkeley people and clearly love Cal. I am not a Brown person (or a US East Coast person) but rather someone who read this topic and decided to balance it a bit. However, I did go to an Ivy League school + an Oxbridge university so there may be bias on my part too.</p>
<p>If you get into one of the two schools: congratulations!</p>
<p>I’m Italian studied university in the UK (Cambridge) and currently residing in Asia. I don’t know which part of the UK you’re talking about, but in Italy and the UK, at least, the Berkeley name carries way much more name than the Brown names does. Berkeley is perceived to be a top 10 university in the world whereas Brown isn’t even considered a top 20 global university.</p>
<p>Why are we talking about business placement when the OP is interested in Political Science/IR? Brown offers the far better undergraduate education and may be more generous to internationals with regards to FA but I’m not sure. Do you want to go to a small private school or a large state flagship?</p>
You need to look again. I have never met a Brown student or graduate who was not absolutely blissful about his/her experience. It’s honestly a little sickening. In contrast, I’ve met a not inconsiderable number of Berkeley graduates who were rather “meh” about their social experience, including many posters on CC. </p>
<p>(At the graduate level, I can vouch that my department at Brown is notoriously relaxed and has a way better social scene than any of its primary competitors, including my own department here. Unfortunately, I can’t attest to the atmosphere of the IR program at Brown or anywhere else.)</p>
<p>
I think you’ve outlined the major differences rather well. I would not worry about fitting in at Brown; as others have noted, it’s diverse and has a reputation for students intermixing. </p>
<p>Brown has a very good reputation for international relations, a freestanding program with ~130 majors a year that utilizes the international studies offerings of the excellent Watson Center. Berkeley’s IR program is a track within the political science program, which graduates ~400 majors a year. </p>
<p>bustazak is right – you basically need to decide between a small(ish) private university and a moderately large public university. There is no obvious one-size-fits-all choice, and I don’t think either is a bad option. </p>
<p>Personally, I would head to Brown and not think twice. There are certain things about the school that turn me off, and I think its undergraduate focus is somewhat overrated, but it has a great deal going for it. The students are diverse and uniformly accomplished. There is more of an undergraduate focus, and classes are smaller. Advising is better. The majority of students live on campus, leading to a more close-knit community feel. The Open Curriculum, unlimited pass/fail, and lack of +/- grading are wonderful things. Providence is a decent city, and Boston is pretty close for occasional trips. Based on my own experiences at another UC, I’d say small/medium privates have FAR less red tape and more funding available for research/travel.</p>
<p>Berkeley’s weather is nicer for those preferring a mild climate, and its large size means it hosts a greater variety of student organizations, especially cultural and religious ones that sometimes lack a critical mass at small schools. There are many who would prefer Berkeley to Brown. Personal preference!</p>
<p>My perspective is somewhat unique here, because I went to an Ivy freshman year (Harvard) and transferred to Berkeley. The weather in Cambridge really hit me hard but I am from LA. I had spent the summer before Harvard at Berkeley, so when I got to Harvard it was a complete shock. Berkeley is an incredibly diverse (ethnically, but also in other ways) and exciting campus, and Harvard seemed so small and-stale is the word I would use. I am half Mexican, but born/raised in California, and my dad’s family came with the pilgrims so my ethnic situation is complex. At Berkeley you will find a very diverse Asian student population:from first gen’s to kids whose great grandparents help build the railroads. And there will be more Mexican Americans!! And you will be able to eat amazing Mexican food! I lived in coop housing at Berkeley and there was a definite student-community feel to it. Often for 3rd or 4th year, you share a house in Berkeley or Oakland with other students, but often you are living quite close to other students. At Harvard as a freshman you live in dorms mostly in the main campus area; then you live in various house-residences during sophomore -senior year. I spent a lot of time in a house where my sister lived, and I don’t recall it being any more of a “community” feel to it than how I lived at Berkeley.</p>
<p>As for academics, when comparing Brown to Cal, no need to beat a dead horse: Berkeley. I have lived overseas (Latin America, Europe, Africa) and have found Berkeley is universally recognized. I agree with others here, Brown just doesn’t carry that name recognition. You may want to consider Harvard, too - it is more comparable to Cal in terms of international cache.</p>