I have been admitted to both Penn and Brown as a transfer student, and would like some advice on which college to attend.
I intend to study English and economics, although Penn’s PPE program appeals to me equally.
From where I come (international student), Brown has a better image than Penn, so anyone I ask from my hometown usually tells me that I should attend the former. I know many people from my city who get into Penn each year and almost nobody who attends Brown. Inevitably, there’s a strong bias amongst people from my home: for them, Brown is more exclusive and therefore prestigious.
I want to ask a more broad audience what they think. Which college do you personally like more, and why? Academics is my biggest priority, of course, but I also think social life and nightlife are very important. What is Providence like as opposed to Penn? As a transfer, I don’t want it to be difficult for me to make new friends. I also would like the convenience of a busy city, accessible transportation & services, etc. I currently live in New York and I have been spoiled by the great advantages of a 24/7 city (ordering food online at 4am, metro, restaurant at every corner, and all that!)
Finally, I’ve seen that Penn has higher rankings for economics, and maybe even for English. Its overall ranking also seems to be higher according to 2-3 sources. Rankings aren’t everything, surely, so if you know anything about these colleges that rankings don’t tell/would counter any biases these rankings might carry, then I would love to hear what you have to say!
Most department specific rankings are heavily weighted towards graduate school, not undergraduate. Even if not explicitly so, the factors they use are not as relevant for undergrads as they are for graduate students.
I think you are hair splitting in matters of prestige which I suppose is more common among international students, although HS students certainly are caught up in that. I don’t think there is any difference in prestige between the schools. Penn is larger undergrad and larger grad school too and the admit rates not quite so low as Brown has been so maybe the more elusive admits give more prestige amount your friends but I don’t think this sort of thing matters at all to American employers and grad schools who know that they are both elite schools that attract similarly strong student body. I think Penn gets more overtly business oriented students because of Wharton and students from Wharton enjoy their own particular reputation.
I have met people from Penn but I don’t know it as far as my student only attended Brown. Can’t compare for you, sorry. Although I have seen some interesting cross disciplinary programs at Penn. However I have also heard of PPE referred to as 3 minors in the past. This just may be something people say to be glib, or it may no longer be true. But sometimes you need more upper division strength. However if it prepares you sufficiently for the grad program you want then it doesn’t really matter because you will specialize in the grad school.
Oh, as for English, Brown is famous for Literary Arts, writing through the curriculum approach, masses of alumni authors,playwrights etc.I have written a recent post on that if you care to look in the forum. I’m sure that isn’t neglected at Penn and they have the Kelly Writers House as a resource.
If you are looking for NYC amenities outside NYC you are likely going to be disappointed. Sure you want to transfer?
Thanks for your thoughtful replies. Yes, I guess I cannot expect a comparison because most of us have experience with either one of two schools and not both.
I think prestige at some point plays on the minds of anyone (not just international students) who has the luxury of choosing between two great schools. It may matter to some people more than it does to others. For me, it was one of several factors that I listed.
I don’t expect to find the same amenities I enjoy here at NYC; I would simply prefer a city that has more amenities than another (because living in NYC has made me that way). Both of you seem acquainted with Brown so I would like to ask: what is the surrounding neighbourhood like? What is Providence in general like? I can’t afford to visit at this time, so gaining a sense of the area, campus, amenities, etc. would be extremely helpful. Thanks!
I quite enjoyed my visits to Providence. It is a walking town and I like that. When my dd was occupied I tooled around to a few different neighborhoods, stopping by a cafe for coffee or a glass of wine, chat people up. There are a few different sorts of neighborhoods near Brown–some are a bit boho and some upscale… There is a bit of Portuguese neighborhood too. Farther away is an Italian District. I enjoyed the big outdoor festivals along the river called WaterFire. http://waterfire.org/
Day trips to Newport. Biking on the East Bay bike trail. Looking for interesting restaurants. My daughter used to see a lot of music but I don’t know if mostly on campus or not. She did go to a music venue called Lupo’s. I have no idea what kind of all night delivery there is if anything, not many cities have the density of NYC to make that work. Providence will seem small compared. I just don’t think students ‘go out’ as much and there is more of a campus life. Can’t remember how big Philly is, it has been years and years and I was mainly only downtown in a hotel.
Oh you can get to Boston in a bit over an hour and there is a transit center not far from the university.
We just visited Penn and Brown for 11th grade college visits. Between Providence and Philadelphia, Philadelphia seemed more like NYC in terms of a major Northeastern city (no offense Providence) with a serious restaurant scene. Not sure about the late night dining options but generally Philly has great restaurants and markets including the Reading Terminal Market. There are also several large-ish universities in Philly (Penn, Drexel, Temple, etc.) so more businesses catering to students. There is a big food truck scene around the Penn campus. Penn is a lot bigger than Brown and actually struck me as a larger version of Columbia in terms of being a campus in a city. Personally I preferred Brown when we toured but Penn is attracting the stronger students from my daughter’s high school these days, especially the kids who want to go into business or Wall Street.
Agree that prestige between the two is essentially the same. I attended Brown and loved it and have Penn friends that feel the same way about Penn. Though Brown has its share of those heading to Wall St., med school, and law school, my impression is those paths are more prevalent at Penn, due in part of the presence of Wharton. Can’t go wrong with either school.
What a great choice to have! I loved both schools when we toured although they are quite different with different vibes. Penn is more big city/urban and closer to NY. Brown is so lovely but in a quieter way. I think the no core curriculum and “shopping” period at Brown might make it less of a pressure cooker environment. I think it is often rated one of the 3 happiest campuses in the country.
Congrats! As everyone else has mentioned, these are two truly outstanding universities and you definitely cannot go wrong in terms of academic quality. As has also already been mentioned, they’re equally prestigious to those who know anything about colleges (i.e. grad schools and employers, among others) so I really wouldn’t consider that too much. I was also choosing between Penn and a few other ivies when I matriculated 5 years ago so hopefully my perspective can help you out a little bit.
At the end of the day, Penn and Brown will both offer an outstanding undergrad education. I was an English major at Penn and I ABSOLUTELY loved it. Penn’s English department is incredible, small, intimate, scholarly, intellectual and accessible. I cannot speak highly enough about my experience. I was a double major and a double minor at Penn but the English department was light years ahead of every other discipline in which I took classes. And while it’s true that most rankings are oriented towards the graduate departments, as a consequence of Penn’s One University policy you will have access to all of those grad school classes, professors, advisors, resources, etc., in addition to every resources available to undergrads (as well as access to Penn’s other undergrad, graduate and professional schools like the Law School, Engineering and Wharton). Penn’s econ department is also very strong and, like the English department, it is doing incredible research. I have also heard people discuss PPE as 3 minors but others have indicated that it was a rigorous and intellectually demanding major. I think (much like college in general) it will be what you make of it. So academics at both schools will probably be top notch and I can certainly vouch for that at Penn. Feel free to direct message me for more details if interested.
In terms of atmosphere I think Philly might be more of what you’re looking for. I currently live in NYC and I can promise you that nothing will ever compare to New York if that is the type of urban environment you enjoy. There is no other American city that is so enormous, diverse, full of life, etc. But Philly definitely holds its own. As the fifth most populous city in the US, it has an awesome restaurant scene with top chefs from around the country/world coming to set up outposts of the best restaurants. The food in philly is one of the things I miss most. New York has a lot of average food everywhere but I have found that Philly has a lot of great food but on a smaller scale. Late night options are awesome and the bars/restaurants are tons of fun for students. Penn’s campus is beautiful, vibrant and large enough to keep most students on campus most of the time but Philly is large enough and cool enough to pull kids downtown every once in a while. And Penn’s neighborhood, University City, is like an urban college town with every amenity you could ever want. Plus, New York is an hour bus ride away if you ever miss it- though I don’t think you will once you’ve arrived at Penn. Also the art scene in philly is awesome. Between the Philadelphia Museum of Art, the Barnes collection and the many many other museums and exhibits that pop up around the city, you’ll never be at a loss for culture. Philly is just a fun place to be!
Congrats again on this amazing choice. You will love wherever you go. I have many friends who went to Brown and loved it just as much as I loved Penn…Go where you think you’ll feel most capable of thriving in your fields of interest. Best of luck!
I’m a Penn alum who transferred there and while I don’t know many people who went to Brown I’ve visited the campus a couple of times over the years. As everyone has said, both are outstanding schools and especially considering that you’re interested in studying Economics and English or something like PPE, I think the academic strength/reputation/prestige is basically a wash.
The campuses are quite different. Brown is more of a classic New England liberal arts college sitting on a hill above Providence (only a 10 minute walk) while Penn has more of a “hybrid” campus with College Green, Locust Walk, the Quad and Hamilton Village integrated into the Philadelphia community. Providence is pretty small with a population of about 200,000 while Philadelphia is like a “baby NYC” with 1.5 million. I think Brown is one of the most beautiful campuses I’ve ever seen (up there with Princeton and Stanford). However having lived in Boston I bet the winters probably last for about a month longer than they do in Philly – something to think about.
Regarding campus culture there does tend to be a strong pre-professional vibe among the students at Penn while Brown is probably a lot more “chilled out.” I was a Wharton/Engineering double major (M&T) and even I thought that the whole Wharton, Engineering, Pre-this and Pre-that emphasis was too heavy sometimes. But remember that the College makes up 61% of the class while Wharton and Engineering only make up 17% each. And Penn students definitely know how to socialize and have a good time! I really loved it there.
I think one really critical thing to think about as a transfer is how easy it is to make friends and become a part of the community, considering that you’re not entering as a Freshman. When I transferred to Penn I was assigned housing in a section of a dorm where all of the residents on my floor and the floor below were also transfers. This was really great since it allowed all of us transfers to bond together, almost like a second Freshman year. I’m not sure if they still do this at Penn but it was really a great way to become connected to the community. I don’t know what the transfer experience would be like at Brown and how easy it is for transfers to make friends. Hopefully someone can chime in and say something about the Brown transfer experience.
Congratulations! You have a really tough choice to make but I’m sure you’ll have a wonderful and fulfilling experience wherever you decide to go.
@HaiLua44 makes a very good point about fitting in as a transfer. They do still try to group transfer students together to enhance their social experience but they are also heavily encouraged to become integrated with the population as a whole. There is also a group at Penn, the Transfer Students Organization (TSO) that works on behalf of transfer students to advocate for their needs with the administration and ease the transition into their new university.
Perhaps you can reach out to them to learn more about the experience. I think, as with any other community on a college campus, you can be as involved or uninvolved with other transfer students as you’d like to be.
Reading your post, it is obvious that you would be better suited at Penn. Philadelphia fosters the NYC-esque location and Penn is known as the “social Ivy” with the best night/Greek life. While I personally prefer Providence, it is hardly a city (compared to NYC/Philadelphia) and feels more like a busy beach town occupied by college students. It sounds like you are very happy in New York’s urban environment, which leads me to believe Philadelphia would fit your interests & needs better than Providence.
In terms of prestige, I would not let that factor into your decision. I have never heard either school been declared more prestigious than the other, with the exception of Wharton, of course.
Wow, thanks everyone; your replies were really helpful and detailed! I just visited both universities and I agree with mostly everything you guys have mentioned. As soon as I arrived in Providence, I picked up really happy and homely vibes. The campus was of course beautiful. The buildings were nice and quaint (I went to the economics department and it was so unlike the one at my present college, which is really modern and corporate office like).
Penn was louder definitely, but I loved it! I think the pre-professional vibes that people talk about when discussing Penn, though perhaps observable generally, can probably be avoided depending on your major. For instance, if I’m studying English at Penn, I doubt that I would be surrounded by work-obsessed students or lose out on some kind of artsy intellectual vibe (not to say that the two are direct opposites).
As all of you have said, both colleges are great. I am so happy to be in this situation. Thank you again for taking the time to share your thoughts and for all the advice!
Hey! I went with Penn ultimately. After my visits I realized that while Brown is great – and all else being equal – Penn would really be the more comfortable college to transfer to. I think Penn offers a nice balance between a medium-sized university in a beautiful campus and an urban city environment just down the road. For me personally, switching from a large school in New York, location and setting were an important factor. It also helped that I have many friends at Penn who encouraged me to come to them!
I felt that I would not be able to use Brown’s curriculum too much, as I am a junior double-majoring with very set academic goals; all my credits did not transfer and that was also an issue. Penn accepted pretty much all of my credits, and I got the impression that Penn is incredibly resourceful and really looks after transfers (based on my talks with friends who have transferred) and learning about the TSO); this same resourcefulness I am sure also filters down to their undergraduate departments and quality of student life.
Brown is a lovely school and I perhaps would have chosen it had I been admitted as a regular high school applicant. But it was not to be!
Not trying to knock your decision at all - it sounds like you made the right one for you, but as someone who did a double major at Brown with very set academic goals, I want to dispel the idea for future applicants who stumble across this thread that the Brown curriculum is not for such students. In fact, I would argue that it can be even better for such students. I did an ScB Biology and Classics double concentration that frankly would have been impossible at many schools. With literally zero overlap between my two programs, I needed 28 of my 32 courses to complete my concentrations (this is why the school wants you to do 5 years for an ScB/AB but if you don’t officially get the AB and just do a concentration in the 2nd area you are allowed to do it in 4). At many schools, the gen ed/distribution requirements would have prevented me from taking all 28 of those classes (and in fact I took 30/32 that would have counted for my concentrations). Only the most liberal of distribution requirements would have allowed me to cluster all of my non bio/science classes into the Classics department.
Yes, I agree with you @iwannabe_Brown. But as a rising junior I have already taken a lot of distribution requirements at my previous college. In other words, in the 4 semesters I have remaining, I only have space for courses belonging to my two majors. The Brown curriculum allows one to both explore different fields, and, as you said, to concentrate on set academic goals without worrying about requirements. In my post I was talking about the inapplicability of the former advantage. The latter is also not very useful to me because I have already completed most of my requirements; so, a traditional curriculum and Brown’s curriculum at this stage of my undergraduate career appear pretty much identical to me. I hope that future applicants will be able to discern from my personal context what I really meant to say (which, I repeat, is that Brown would have more likely been my choice had I been admitted as a freshman).