Business Major Questions (Accounting concentration)

College Majors Business Major
1

<p>D is looking at business programs…both of us are new to to the business world and have some questions to help her make a sound decision. She wants a concentration in accounting and is considering two options that are from our state schools (one from flagship and another from newer sister campus).</p>

<p>Option 1: BBA – Accounting: AACSB-accredited
Option 2: BABA – Accounting: Online, not AACSB-accredited from a fairly new institution</p>

<p>Her ultimate goal is to get a well-paid and stable job after graduation. She does not plan to immediately pursue the CPA status; she wants to work before going back to complete the additional credit hours to be eligible for the exam.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Does the degree (BABA vs BBA) and accreditation matter to employers? </p></li>
<li><p>Do online accounting degrees hold less weight/prestige to employers? </p></li>
<li><p>Which option would you choose, and why?</p></li>
</ol>

2

<p>I can’t answer the accreditation question since I’ve never experience this situation but </p>

<p>2) An online accounting degree typically weigh less but only for her first job. Breaking the job barrier and getting her first accounting job with brand name company will be difficult. Once she has experience, she should be fine.</p>

<p>Also, does she have the same recruitment opportunities from the sister campus?</p>

3

<p>I don’t think the name of the degree matters, but I do think the accreditation does. I also believe that an online degrees won’t hold as much weight as a typical degree. In addition, new, non AACSB accredited, online programs won’t have nearly the level of career placement that a flagship university will have. I’d go to option A. </p>

4

<p>“does she have the same recruitment opportunities from the sister campus?”
We looked into this and I think the short answer is no. The flagship has a much more extensive record of networking among their alumni. The newer campus is known for producing graduates who go on to work in our direct local community. </p>

<p>A couple possible key factors that I left out were costs and timing. It would take D about two years to complete her degree at option II. Three years to complete a degree from option I (more requirements and more prerequisites). Likewise, option I would cost more. Could these differences make up for, or break the decision we should make?</p>

5

<p>@happy1 what about a non-AACSB accredited traditional (not online) program? She has the option of attending campus if it means equal opportunities. The main reason she’s attracted to the sister campus is because it will only take her two years (she has an AA degree that she acquired through dual enrollment in HS), whereas the flagship will take her three years. </p>

<p>If she considers an accounting master’s program sometime after graduation, will she be at a disadvantage if her degree program was not accredited with the AACSB?</p>

6

<p>If her ultimate goal is to get a job after graduation, there would be no point even if she graduates in 2 years and she has no job lining up. </p>

7

<p>I don’t think the major firms recruit as much at a non AACSB accredited school. But I don’t know the schools in question. You and your D need to really go on a fact hunting mission to the two schools. Try talking to the accounting department and the placement departments of both schools (particularly the non-flagship) and try to get information on how many graduates get jobs and what kind of jobs they get. I still think the best bet for the long term is the three year state flagship accredited program. The extra year of maturity gained as a college student will also help her in the working world (it might even be hard to find a full time accounting job at 19 years old).</p>

<p>Also FYI, a candidate now needs 150 college credits (most colleges you need about 120 credits to graduate) to get a CPA (the exact requirements vary by state but every state has the 150 credit requirement) so many students now go for a one year masters degree to satisfy this. Again, the state flagship likely has a program for this while the other school might not but you need to check.</p>

8

<p>And I don’t know for sure the extent to which graduating from a non AACSB undergraduate school would impact her chances at grad schools, but I’d imagine it would be a negative at least to a certain extent. AACSB accreditation assures a basic standard of education/coursework (not to say that non-accredited schools can’t meet that standard, but it can be hit or miss). Again, you need to talk to people at the non-accredited school to see what their history has been for recent students in terms of grad school placement. </p>

<p>And I know you said she doesn’t want to go for the CPA right away, but just so you know, almost all accountants do for for the CPA right away. She would be taking a highly unusual path.</p>

9

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<p>@Username1010- sorry, are you referring to the master’s program inquiry?</p>

10

<p>@happy1</p>

<p>She doesn’t mind much about not being able to work at a major firm; just a job where she can earn a decent salary for a year or two to pay off her student loans and go back to complete more credits for the CPA exam. </p>

<p>I’m still waiting to hear from the flagship but for college with the online program, I know that recent graduates only recently started getting hired to a couple local large CPA firms (as assistant accountants and staff). Starting salary is between $45,000 and $55,000 per year, depending on the position. How common is it to find jobs that pay this much with an accounting degree right out of college?</p>

<p>I’ve also heard that the business program at the online school is seeking accreditation from another Business accreditation entity. The guy didn’t specify which accreditation entity, however. Is the AACSB the “holy grail” of business accreditation? We’ve been looking at top master’s programs and the only accreditation many seem to recognize is the AACSB accreditation. </p>

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<p>Yes, we’re aware that she’ll need 150 credits. However, she’s planning to work straight after graduation to gain experience before going back to complete additional credits. I think our state requires at least one year of accounting work experience to sit in for the CPA exam. How do most students satisfy the accounting work experience if her plan is unusual?</p>

<p>Also, looking ahead- once she passes the CPA exam and becomes a CPA, will all this worry about accreditation and online degree still haunt her if she goes with this path? We’d assume the playing field is all equal once she reaches this credential, no?</p>

11

<p>A CPA and father of a current Masters in Accounting student.</p>

<p>Hiring salaries are a function of location. For example, the Big 4 and other major accounting firms have a starting salary at each office that reflects the cost of living. A new hire in NYC makes more than one in Chicago, who makes more than one in Dallas, who makes more than one in Knoxville, TN. At least with the major firms, where you go to school does not impact starting salary; all new hires will typically get the same offer - no individual negotiation. There may be slight differences between the firms, but they will usually be within a thousand or so of each other. This makes sense since a new hire has not shown they are worth anymore than anyone else - the pay differentiation will occur once you join the firm and your performance evaluated. FYI - new hires to the Big 4 in Chicago are starting above the range you quoted.</p>

<p>However, to be eligible to get an offer with a Big 4 or national firm, you need to be eligible to sit for the CPA or be in the process of completing those classes. They will not hire you with 120 hours, unless you are going to grad school or otherwise taking classes to get to 150 - and in that case, you can not start until you have earned the hours. They do not want to be in a position of extending an offer to someone who can not sit for the exam and get licensed. </p>

<p>I don’t know what type of position your daughter is looking for, but I would be asking alot of questions about future advancement if she got hired as a clerk at a firm. At least with the bigger firms I know, there is a tendancy to want to hire new graduates for starting audit positions. The number of positions for “climbers” and “second career” cases can be limited or non-existant. Maybe the firm you are talking about has a program that allows for progression into the assurance/audit ranks, just make sure.</p>

<p>I believe you are a little confused about the work experience requirement. Most states have a work experience requirement for licensure - none, to my knowledge, have an experience requirement for eligibility to sit for the exam. In order to get your CPA license you must pass the uniform examination, pass a separate ethics test (in most states) and meet the experience requirement in your state. However, it should be noted that some states will allow you to sit for the exam with only 120 hours, but will not grant you a license until you have 150 hours. Other states will allow you to sit once you have registered for the final classes needed to meet the 150 hour requirement and other states will not allow you to sit until they have transcripts in-hand showing all 150 hours earned. Please also note that all states also have specific requirements as to the number of accounting hours and other business hours. Many states also have unique requirements related to business law, ethics, communication, research etc. </p>

<p>Regarding accreditation, AACSB is absolutely the gold standard in business school accreditation - all of the major business schools are AACSB accredited. These are the large recognized programs: Harvard, Michigan, UIUC, Notre Dame, Texas, USC etc. As such, these schools tend to have the best campus recruitment. The other major recognized accrediting body is - ACBSP. This body tends to accredit smaller “teaching” programs as it does not require a commitment to research that AACSB does. Not that there is anything necessarily wrong with these schools, but with smaller programs, they may or may not have numerous firms recuiting there. There is also a third accrediting body - IACBE, but it is relatively new and not as well respected. In fact, today I tried to get to their website and cound not - the domain owner put up a generic page, they must not have been paid.</p>

12

<p>Only you and your D can do the work you need to determine which program will have better job opportunities and will fit better into your plans. I would be concerned with 1) what percentage of the students from the online programs actually get those jobs? is it one or two, or the majority? 2) what is an assistant accountant ( a staff position or like an intern level?) would it count as work experience towards the CPA? 3) If your D finished college at 19, will that adversely impact her job search (I think it could). 4) What is the schools track record of getting students into grad school? 5) Doing the online route your D would lose the social growth often associated with going to college, so be sure everyone is OK with this. And yes, IMO the undergraduate degree will likely always be regarded as a bit of a negative, but if she can get into a good grad program it would be offset by that. </p>

<p>As I said, your plan is not the traditional path, but if you research it and feel it is the best route, I wish you all the best. </p>

<p>And although I don’t profess to know every single state requirement, I haven’t heard of one state where you need a year work experience before you can sit for the CPA exam (my son’s MSA program had students from many states and they were all taking the exam during grad school). In fact most students sit for the exam right after college or during grad school. I’d recommend that she try to sit for the exam after her undergraduate work. Candidates do need at least one year of work experience before they can get their CPA license (often two years experience with no masters degree).but that is different from being qualified to sit for the exam. Again I don’t know every state’s requirements, but I’d just double check that. </p>

13

<p>A couple quick comments (25 year CPA here): when I worked at Deloitte ( ~20 years ago), students from certain “target schools” did get higher starting salaries than their peers from other local schools. </p>

<ul>
<li><p>Unless your daughter already has a place to worked lined up (say a family friend in the business) I’d vote for AACSB over the other. Also, I like traditional vs. on-line for business, perhaps it’s my “old guy bias.” She will be competing against these students for jobs. It likely won’t matter once she get 5+ years in, but entry level it could be a disadvantage. </p></li>
<li><p>As far as sitting for the CPA exam, generally the sooner the better. That said, there were certain sections (auditing in particular) which became much clearer to me once I started working. </p></li>
</ul>

14

<p>I might have been a little confused about the work experience requirement when I wrote my post last night, I’ll double check that. The representative from the sister campus did confirm that the accreditation will come from the Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP), so that should help put things into perspective.</p>

<p>For more perspective, we are in the Hawaii—far from New York or where major firms are (as far as I know). The University of Hawaii at Manoa (flagship) and University of Hawaii West Oahu (sister campus) are the two colleges we’re comparing. D has not looked into other schools mainly because of no interest in leaving the state. </p>

<p>We’re not familiar with any well-known accounting firms around here but we’ll do some more research on the positions that attract her most, and the type of environment she’s looking for. We’re also working on obtaining more information, but it seems as if both colleges can’t tell us where majority of their graduates go (is it usual for state schools to not know?). We do understand the concern about social growth if she pursues online courses and will take that into account. </p>

<p>Overall, D doesn’t seem to plan to move out of state to work. A lot of the information here seems to have the “elite” firms in mind, in which case the ASSCB accreditation will do her better. But the fact that she plans to stay in Hawaii – where little to no firms of the like are here, and presumably less competition (?) from graduates of the top schools on the mainland – she still wonders if the sister campus will give her equal opportunities. This is where she’s at right now, and I don’t know what to say to her. </p>

15

<p>I certainly don’t know the landscape of the jobs available in Hawaii but I have visited and can understand why someone wouldn’t want to leave the state!!!. As a parent, all you can do is be sure that your D takes all of the factors into account and make the choice that is best for her. </p>

<p>And FYI, I do think that the major accounting firms do have offices in Honolulu.</p>

16

<p>Parent of a CPA here. I really can’t add much to the excellent advice/perspective from ChicagoBear and happy1 except for a few illustrations from my daughter’s story and those of her accountant friends.</p>

<p>D works for a Big 4 now. In her office, it doesn’t matter where you got your degree - everyone starts at the same salary and gets the same bonus, etc when they pass their CPA exam. No one gets hired unless they can already sit (or will soon be able to sit) for the CPA exam. I did look it up - all of the big 4 have offices in Honolulu, if your daughter determines that she wants to work in such an environment.</p>

<p>The CPA exam is really pretty grueling. My D (and many of her friends) studied a LOT for the exam (say 8 hours or so a day) and/or took a CPA prep course right after they graduated and then took the exams right before starting work. My D figured that this would be the only time in her life (…maybe…) when she could devote herself solely to studying and passing; she didn’t want to be studying and working at the same time. The intense studying may have been overkill, but the strategy worked for her. Now she says that she can’t imagine studying and working full-time at the same time.</p>

<p>Whatever course your D chooses, good luck! I wouldn’t want to leave Hawaii either.</p>