<p>I am interested in applying to Berkeley in the fall as a business major then apply to Haas business school as a junior, yet my dad is telling me not to because a business major doesn't have any "substance". Now he is telling me to major in something like biology or engineering, then to get an MBA later on instead because there are more jobs available for people with those credentials. </p>
<p>So is this true?</p>
<p>You can judge for yourself [url=<a href="http://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Major.stm%5Dhere%5B/url">http://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Major.stm]here[/url</a>]. That site shows job and salary information for most Berkeley majors, including Business Administration.</p>
<p>My impression as a current freshman is that while business may not be a serious major at lesser known state schools, doing it at Haas, one of the best undergraduate business schools in the country, would mean something.</p>
<p>Also, if I plan on applying to Haas, what should I put down as my intended major when applying as a freshman?</p>
<p>I would say it'd be beneficial to have a BS/BA related to what the company does, but NOT necessary. Like in Silicon Valley an MBA in addition to a BA/BS in Comp Sci or EE could possible give you an advantage over others with just MBAs.</p>
<p>Here are some notable ppl:
Take Carly Fiorina for example, Philosophy and Medieval studies major undergrad... received MBA and then became a CEO of Hewlett-Packard.</p>
<p>Sergey Brin (co-founder of google) major in Comp Sci and Mathematics then pursued MBA after grad school</p>
<p>John Chambers (CEO of Cisco) pre-business undergrad, then MBA, then went to College of Engineering @ Duke</p>
<p>So, there's a lot of paths you can take to get into management/MBA programs. Do something that interests you or something related a particular field you'd like the manage someday.</p>
<p>My personal feeling (based on observation) is that business as an undergraduate degree is a rather pointless pursuit. One really needs specialized knowledge and skills in something to set them apart down the line... essentially everything taught in an undergraduate business degree is really the sort of thing that one can pick up quite quickly on the job. What employers want is someone with a high level of knowledge in some useful subject... whatever 'business' knowledge they need to do the job can be quickly taught later. </p>
<p>You see that sort of thinking with the way top consulting firms recruit... having an undergraduate degree in business probably almost puts you at a disadvantage since those firms tend to like to recruit top students from all backgrounds and then teach them the required biz knowledge on the job. </p>
<p>So I'd suggest you major in a specific subject... even if you don't end up pursuing that subject as a career it will still likely look more impressive on your CV than an undergraduate business degree.</p>
<p>I personally cannot connect at all with the culture and values of business/econ undergrads here. I also agree with the logic of your dad and others here about having a non-business context or training first. Becoming successful in finance can have very little to do with formal training.</p>
<p>Regardless, I think you should take our collective prejudices with a grain of salt and see where you best fit in Berkeley. Ideally, you should be comfortable with your peers in your major and be able to connect with their way of thinking. Each discipline is a cultural microcosm and will affect the way you develop over the next four years.</p>
<p>All you need is networking.</p>
<p>
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Sergey Brin (co-founder of google) major in Comp Sci and Mathematics then pursued MBA after grad school
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<p>I'm fairly certain that Sergey Brin never pursued an MBA, unless you are counting those 'honorary' MBA's he has received, which are not real degrees at all. In fact, I don't see how he ever could. He founded Google while in the Stanford CS PhD program, and in fact, he actually dropped out that program because he was more interested in starting the company. </p>
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John Chambers (CEO of Cisco) pre-business undergrad, then MBA, then went to College of Engineering @ Duke
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<p>Uh, no, your chronology is wrong. Chambers actually attended Duke engineering from 1967-1968, then transferred to West Virginia University where he graduated with a bachelor's in business, and then later got a law degree and MBA. </p>
<p>
[quote]
My personal feeling (based on observation) is that business as an undergraduate degree is a rather pointless pursuit. One really needs specialized knowledge and skills in something to set them apart down the line... essentially everything taught in an undergraduate business degree is really the sort of thing that one can pick up quite quickly on the job. What employers want is someone with a high level of knowledge in some useful subject... whatever 'business' knowledge they need to do the job can be quickly taught later.
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<p>Ha! Yeah, well, the same could just as easily be said (if not more easily said) about most liberal arts majors. I mean, really, exactly what kind of 'specialized knowledge and skills' or 'high level of knowledge in some useful subject' does an art history graduate have? Or an American Studies graduate? </p>
<p>Since the OP brought up the example of biology, let's use that. Again, what exactly does a guy with a biology bachelor's degree really bring to the table? Biology graduates are noted for receiving conspicuously low salaries. </p>
<p>Career</a> Center - What Can I Do With a Major In...?
Career</a> Center - What Can I Do With a Major In...?</p>
<p>Hence, you say that majoring in undergrad business is a pointless pursuit. Yet, using the same logic, one could argue that the liberal arts majors are even more pointless. After all, however little an undergrad business major may know about real-world business, at least he will probably know more than a liberal arts grad will. </p>
<p>
[quote]
You see that sort of thinking with the way top consulting firms recruit... having an undergraduate degree in business probably almost puts you at a disadvantage since those firms tend to like to recruit top students from all backgrounds and then teach them the required biz knowledge on the job. </p>
<p>So I'd suggest you major in a specific subject... even if you don't end up pursuing that subject as a career it will still likely look more impressive on your CV than an undergraduate business degree.
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</p>
<p>I'm not saying that a bachelor's in business is necessarily a big advantage, but I can't agree that it is a disadvantage, particularly if you're talking about a top-ranked undergrad business program like Haas. After all, it is quite clear that the Haas undergrad make higher average salaries than the vast majority of the grads in almost all other majors at Berkeley. Heck, they even made higher average salaries than many of the engineering majors.</p>
<p>Career</a> Center - Career Destination Survey Reports 2006</p>
<p>The bottom line is, whatever you might want to say about Haas, we can't dispute that the Haas undergrads are getting paid very very well - far better than most other Berkeley undergrads. Hence, that begs the question of, if the Haas undergrad degree is not valued by employers, then why do they pay them so well (or, put another way, why don't they pay the other Berkeley graduates more)?</p>
<p>y can't really pick up that sorta stuff u learn at haas on the job
if u were to apply for lets say an Ibanking job, they ask u accounting questions, then again u need biz com class to learn how to present yourself. u need marketing to not sound stupid talking biz, biz ethics to learn how to analyze with different perspectives.
biz classes are really interesting. its just too much things for u to "pick up on the job"</p>
<p>every biz professor would tell u that biz admin is different from any other major. but it definitely doesn't lack substance.
iono about other biz school but in haas its got a lot to do about the culture, whether its the competition, networking or teamwork. its fun tho, when ur peers are good it motivates u to set higher goals as well.</p>
<p>but its pointless to choose a major if u don't know much about it or don't enjoy it. i come from a biz family and i truly understand the value of a BA from haas. seeing someone say it would give u a disadvantage or lacks substance just makes me laugh</p>
<p>why compare with this CEO and that CEO? what matters is u not what others do. its about what u want rather than reading people's comments about something they are not experience or have little knowledge about =/
gotta say... lol</p>
<p>
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Now he is telling me to major in something like biology or engineering, then to get an MBA later on instead because there are more jobs available for people with those credentials.
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<p>See above, esp. regarding biology. If Haas undergrads have "weak" job prospects, then bio grads have even weaker job prospects. Haas undergrads earn nearly double the starting salary that bio undergrads do.</p>
<p>sakky, do you know how many premed students actually become admitted into med school from berkeley each year? i think that would be interesting to know, as the weaker salary listed for bio-majors may be attributed to a "stepping-stone" period between graduation and admittance into med school?</p>
<p>in the general sense, how would a student pursuing the path of ugrad business -> mba compare with a student pursing the path of ugrad engineering -> mba in terms of marketability to employers? or is it by the time that you receive an mba what you have learned in ugrad is nothing compared to the work experience after graduation?</p>
<p>
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sakky, do you know how many premed students actually become admitted into med school from berkeley each year? i think that would be interesting to know, as the weaker salary listed for bio-majors may be attributed to a "stepping-stone" period between graduation and admittance into med school?
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<p>I'd thought about that before, but I think that's really neither here nor there, for the real issue is how the employers value certain majors, as evidenced by how much they pay. After all, I think nowadays, most employers understand that any new employees they bring in right out of undergrad are highly likely to end up leaving after a few years anyway, whether to take a job at some other company, or to go to grad school or whatever. The whole notion of lifetime employment - or even 'long-term' employment -is an artifact of our parent's generation and has little relevance in today's economy. Hence, what the employer really cares about is the value you bring to them right now. Surely, biology students, just like anybody else, likes money (who doesn't?), such that they will choose a higher salary over a lower salary, all other things being equal. Yet the fact remains that, for whatever reason, the bio grads end up with significantly lower salaries than the biz grads.</p>
<p>In other words, let's say that you're right and a lot of bio grads take low-paying jobs because they're using them as stepping stones to med-school. But that just begs the question of why those jobs are so low-paying in the first place, as you would expect that if their skills were highly valued by employers, then they would bid up their salaries accordingly. </p>
<p>One can also look at it the other way. Many of the Haas biz undergrads are probably looking to get MBA's later, and employers should know that. But that doesn't stop them from paying them quite high salaries. Ibanks and consulting firms, in particular, are noted for notably large pay packets to their undergrad hires despite knowing that most of them are going to be heading for MBA programs after a few years. So that begs the question of why that doesn't also happen with the bio grads if they really are so highly valued by employers.</p>
<p>Now, obviously, money isn't everything. I certainly agree that many people will take lower-paying careers that provide better working conditions and/or more meaningful work. Heck, I have done so several times myself. I would also suspect that a biology job probably involves fewer working hours and hence a higher quality of life than the typical Haas undergrad job. </p>
<p>But I don't think that's what the OP is talking about. The OP seems to be talking about just job prospects, period. He's not talking about the meaningfulness of those prospects, or their quality-of-life.</p>
<p>Therefore, if you want to major in biology rather than Haas biz because you think that biology will provide you with a more meaningful and fulfilling career (in the way that you personally define 'meaningfulness'), or provides a better quality of life, then that's perfectly fine. But I think that's a different question from whether biology really offers better overall job prospects than does Haas. At the end of the day, it is undeniable that Haas students receive jobs that, if nothing else, are notably high paying. Maybe those jobs are soulless (i.e. Ibanking), maybe those jobs require ridiculous working hours and hence a low quality of life (i.e., again, Ibanking), but nobody can deny that they pay extremely well. </p>
<p>
[quote]
n the general sense, how would a student pursuing the path of ugrad business -> mba compare with a student pursing the path of ugrad engineering -> mba in terms of marketability to employers? or is it by the time that you receive an mba what you have learned in ugrad is nothing compared to the work experience after graduation?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The truth of the matter is, after you get an MBA (presumably an elite MBA), your undergrad degree probably won't matter very much. Much of that will be attributable to your own personal desires: once you obtain an elite MBA, you're probably going to want one of those typical MBA-type jobs, such as finance or consulting, in which your former undergrad background hardly matters. At every elite MBA program, a strong majority of graduates will take jobs in finance or consulting. </p>
<p>Now, if we're talking about a non-elite MBA, then that may be a different story, as a non-elite MBA may not provide you with strong opportunities such that you may still end up in the same career track that you had before you got the MBA. For example, if you were an engineer before and you get such an MBA, you may still be working as an engineer; maybe you'll be promoted to senior engineer, but you'll still be an engineer. But of course that begs the question of why did you even get that non-elite MBA at all if you were just going to end up in the same career track you were on before. {Although, in fairness, if your employer paid for it, then it may be a good deal.}</p>
<p>Actually, those high salaries are not exclusive of Haas. It seems a lot of business schools graduate their students with ~50k salaries. Undergrad</a> B-School Rankings: Interactive Table from top ranking Wharton (55k) to Lehigh (50k) at rank 18--which seems to have very little variance. In fact, I can cite a few personal examples of kids going out of state schools with 50k salaries, so a business major in general seems lucrative relative to other more nontechnical majors.</p>
<p>But I would agree with your father in that majoring in another more academic and less pre-professional discipline would be more advantageous. It depends on what you want to be in business. If you want to be in finances consider an accounting or economics major (which prepare you for law school if you so digress), or sociology and psychology for management or human resources. </p>
<p>Still, if you can get into Haas in the first place I'd consider it as the name does carry quite recognition. And if not, it's good to know that Berkeley has other majors at your fingertips. Economics majors make nearly as much Career</a> Center - What Can I Do With a Major In...?</p>
<p>A lot of top b-school graduates (Penn, MIT, Haas, etc) are recruited into ibanking and consulting positions. For entry level positions in ibanking and consulting, an undergraduate degree may be more desirable than a graduate degree like MBA.</p>
<p>One thing to note about business degree though: when economy is not good, it is more difficult to get a job than engineering majors.</p>