<p>Interests can change between high school and college, so it's best to be prepared for a broad range of fields in college. Calculus is an important fundamental course for the physical sciences, engineering, math and economics/finance. But for most of the social sciences statistics is a more useful discipline. I wouldn't think that a high school program that was filled with APs in subjects where the student's passion lies would be considered inadequate if AP Stat was chosen instead of AP Calculus, unless the student is aiming at the physical sciences, engineering or math.</p>
<p>agreee dadx3. </p>
<p>I am a CPA, and when I was in college, I was required to several very basic math courses, the most strenuous being 'Business' Calculus which was hardly real Calculus imho. I also took several required Statistics courses for my BS in Accounting. Definitely more emphasis on the Stats than regular math in the business college. Not sure about fine arts or other programs. </p>
<p>If I were original poster, I would go to each desired school's website and actually look at the required coursework for the degree programs that interest his son....and then make a decision.</p>
<p>Anyone have an opinion on my question. Whether my daughter should take pre-calc even if she will not continue on to calc? thanks</p>
<p>So much depends on the HS & colleges being considered. At my kids' HS, they really get an incredible amount of personal attention & teachers who are excellent & available & accessible to the kids nearly 24/7, as well as helpful peers. For this reason, I think it's great for them to take whatever they can & are interested in at their HS where the average class size is about 18 & they have many classes that are even smaller. This gives them more options in college--they can test out of classes, audit them, or retake them & get an easier good grade. Unless there is a compelling reason NOT to take calculus in HS, it might be good to keep more doors open by taking it. So much can change between now & when the child finishes college--interests can change which is why we encourage our kids to keep as many doors open as possible.</p>
<p>Pre calc, yes, especially if it involves trig and the like. Even if her college won't require calc, it may require physics [albeit a non calculus based version] for which trig is essential.</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>thanks Hi Mom, but my daughter cannot take calculus, because as I stated earlier, pre-calc will be senior year. To get a diploma with the highest honors you needs at least pre-calc.</p>
<p>oops, I mean she needs at least pre-calc.</p>
<p>re chocolic's qx whether there are colleges where you "don't ever have to take another math class", here is Bates College's (top 25 LAC) quantitative distribution requirement:
[quote]
At least one course or unit in which the understanding and use of quantitative techniques are essential to satisfactory performance. First-year seminars listed in the introduction to a department's course offerings may satisfy the requirement. Designations of these courses and units are made by the departments and cited in the Catalog. Courses and units designated as satisfying requirements in the natural sciences and in the social sciencessee (a) and (b) abovealso may be designated to satisfy this requirement.
[/quote]
I had thought such an approach to distribution was fairly common. So, in addition to schools with no GenEd requirement, there are those where the quantitative req can be met other ways. Lots of them, I think.</p>
<p>FOr those who think they'll never need to use math, I was a mediocre math student in HS, majored in US HIstory and took one semester of "College Math" in college, as required. Then I got to grad school (City Planning)and had to take Quantitative Methods and Advanced Quantitave Methods. City planning was not even on my radar screen until my senior year of college - Boy did I wish I had honed my math skills while I was in HS!!!!</p>
<p>Our school just had 8 kids accepted early decision to Ivies and only half were taking calculus, the other half are in pre-calc senior year. My DD got in ED to NYU with no calc. For a student going into the humanities, it is not necessary. Sure, HYP would rather have it, but that is not where this studnet is applying and it is not his interest. He should show a great interest in film and make sure he has some accomplishment in that area.</p>
<p>Not taking math? That's the sound of slamming doors. </p>
<p>IMO, math through calculus is essential.</p>
<p>however you don't have to take it in high school
D only took precalc and stats in high school- when she toured Reed , she even put down she was going to major in pysch so they wouldn't make her visit a math class ;)
but she ended up majoring in biology- and took a year of calculus ( also lots of stats)</p>
<p>
[quote]
IMO, math through calculus is essential.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>To what? an English major? A history or anthropology major? An arts major? </p>
<p>I did not take Calculus and went on to a Ph.D. in a humanities major from Harvard.
My older S did not take Calculus and graduated two years ago from a top LAC in a humanities major. If you read the description, which I posted earlier in this thread, of one of Harvard's Core courses in Quantitative Reasoning, taught by two math stars, nothing more than high school algebra (9th grade stuff!) is required.</p>
<p>Of course having a strong foundation in math will keep doors to engineering and sciences open. But that's different from saying it is essential, especially if a student is certain that s/he will want to major in the humanities.</p>
<p>I think Spikemom's experience is instructive. Depending on how things go, you might need this stuff someday for something you want to do that you haven't even thought of now. And her other comment too .. "Boy do I wish I had honed my math skills..." .</p>
<p>I think of high school as a period of expanding vistas for oneself, rather than contracting them. And capabilities. If you're not gifted in an area of potentially useful life-tools, rather than give up now, exert some effort to better yourself.</p>
<p>But that's not the answer for everybody. And calculus is not the answer for everybody. Trying to better oneself is not the same as shooting oneself in the foot.</p>
<p>So, with this in mind, if I was OP I would think about taking a stats class. This would still exercise some quantitative brain cells but not kill him.</p>
<p>And xiggi has a point, IF he would have to take Calculus in college; you might check requiremnts of target colleges. My guess is most have a "math lite" track, and I'd recommend he take those courses, to keep that math side active on some level, rather than placing out of it via HS math and shutting off his math brain right then.</p>
<p>Is my d's the only high school that offers a standard level calculus class? My d will be a humanities major of some sort, and if the only choice were AP Calculus or no math, she'd choose no math. But her school offers both AP Calculus AB and BC, honors calculus, and standard calculus (and AP Stats). So she's taking the standard calc. (She's taking 3 other AP courses, so doesn't want an AP math of any stripe.) Will colleges look down on that?</p>
<p>Timely, For some additional insight, here's a link to a similar CC thread where I asked nearly the identical question:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=115890%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=115890</a></p>
<p>All my friends (including a math major) recommended that my D. NOT take Calc. if she dislikes math. Calculus can include some tough concepts for many students who have even enjoyed math previously. Her math teacher(s), and the majority of responses on the above mentioned CC discussion recommend the opposite, however. So I recognize it is a difficult decision for you (and us)!</p>
<p>She still has not decided APCalc. or APStats, and is required to register for Senior classes next week. Her current Pre-Calc. class just finished a segment on probability & statistics, which she hated, so she's leaning toward taking Calc. hoping it will be better! We hope to talk to the Calc. teacher next week & will add any additional insight he may have.</p>
<p>Good luck w/ the decision.</p>
<p>Kjofkw, How is pre-caculus? My daughter will take that next year, as a senior. Because the better diploma requires pre-calc at least. She wouldn't be able to take calculus in HS</p>
<p>Chedva,</p>
<p>I would say that any college that looked down on your daughter's choice would be mistaken and therefore not a good fit for her. I don't think colleges want a bunch of cookie cutter kids all taking the same courses, regardless of interest, thinking such are needed to compete for certain colleges. At least I would hope not!</p>
<p>If she has challenged herself academically, done well, and pursued her passions, that should come across.</p>
<p>Otherwise, how to make sense of college admissions? Do selective places just feed in GPAs, SAT/ACT scores, number of APs, some quantified EC score, etc. and take the highest scorers? Judging from all the threads to the effect of "this person's stats were higher but college X took this other person instead," apparently not.</p>
<p>(I await people telling me I'm wrong ...)</p>
<p>I think some knowledge of both statistics and calculus is necessary for quantitative literacy. But I don't think they need to be at the AP level (basically the type of statistics and calculus a science/math/etc. major would take). I homeschooled my daughter and she knew from 3rd grade she wanted to be an Egyptologist. Comes 12th grade, she wasn't interested in AP stat or calc. We did a combination of applied stat and calc using the texts nonmajors use for these subjects in college. She's now at Brown, happily studying Egyptology. She didn't get in everywhere -- maybe they thought she needed the AP courses others had, perhaps something else. But she got into the best school for her, so it really doesn't matter!</p>
<p>Here's what I consider essential knowledge:
World history
In the US, an understanding of the Constitution
Math through calculus
Biology, chemistry, physics and geology
Minimal fluency in a foreign language
The ability to read a modern novel without panicking
The ability to write a coherent persuasive essay with appropriate references
The ability to operate a computer
Comparitive religions
How to read a technical manual (car manual, computer manual, etc.)
Basic navigation, map reading etc.
Cooking a basic meal
Basic financial management and planning</p>
<p>Why math through calculus? Because that's what opens doors throughout the world. I don't care if you get it in HS or college.</p>
<p>Some of these things are acquired most easily in HS; others in college; others outside the academic setting. I'm sure people will be willing to add or subtract from this list, but it's the list I've been working through with my children. </p>
<p>Note that my D insisted she would never use physics or calculus; my S insisted he would never need to speak French. At ages 20 and 19 respectively, and not even done with college, they have both already admitted I was right.</p>
<p>"To what? an English major? A history or anthropology major? An arts major?"</p>
<p>I agree 100% with Marite. That is why you REALLY need to check the requirements at each school. Taking Calculus and especially AP Calculus soleley because it looks good on the transcript is silly. </p>
<p>However, I still believe that taking Calc in HS versus later is recommended, given the different format of instruction.</p>