<p>People are very quick to say that URM’s are only getting in because of their race, and those denied with good stats are quick to say that it was only their ORM status. Some just can’t accept that working hard doesn’t always get you everything in life. Preparing for a job interview doesn’t mean they have to give you a job.</p>
<p>I have never found that a URM admitted to a college doesn’t deserve to be there. They aren’t significantly less qualified and many are more qualified than the average admit. If you guys really want to talk about people getting in for special qualities, target athletes or children of alumni (and even then, sometimes they earn their place).</p>
<p>I agree with the post earlier that financial background diversity would be nice, as some schools reek “privileged rich kid”, but it’d be hard to do that with need-blind admissions.</p>
<p>Dr. Google: No, I am not being racist and neither was the daughter. DD did not want to attend another school where she would have to compete with students whose only lifestyle was to study. She wanted to have a life. I always told her to enjoy her college experiences but she didn’t feel as if she could do that at the UC’s given the same populations as at her competitive high school. She wanted to get good grades and also enjoy her college experiences. So when she saw the populations, she knew she couldn’t do it again; she was always told she got into Johns Hopkins because she was URM-nothing to do with the fact that she took a high school biotech class and did lab work at UCSD for her class, in Diabetes research, and then translated for Chinese grad students to the staff. JH sent a letter indicating that they were interested in what she learned in the research.</p>
<p>AND . . .
when DS got his college acceptances this Spring, and was tormented by peers saying that the only reason he got in was because he was URM, our family was not thrilled about the petty jealousies. Son worked hard to get into those schools. He gets that same attitude from the same kids on his sports team, who claim that because of his height he has an obvious advantage, and it couldn’t be because he practices all of the time.<br>
So, if my kids don’t want to go to the UC’s because they don’t want to compete or hear the petty complaints about favoritism as URM’s, then it just creates another spot for another student.</p>
aunt bea, thanks for the explanation. I’ve always advise kids on CC to go the universities that bring out the best in them, but for somestudents the prestige is to much of a magnetic pull. Luckily for D2, she found a balance for good grades and college experiences at her school.</p>
<p>Where does it say that the stats of the URM are lower than the ORM? Maybe the colleges are choosing between one more 2400 SAT scoring ORM and a 2400 URM. “Different than” is not the same as “less than.”</p>
<p>I always remind my scout parents that Eagle awards are earned, not won, through a lot of hard work, dedication, and perseverance. Congratulations to your son.</p>
<p>Here is the bottom line: the instant that other factors, ANY other factors than academic excellence become a consideration for admissions, EVERY SINGLE admit who has been accepted because of those factors, that would NOT have been accepted without that consideration is taking up a spot that someone with a superior academic profile would get. It’s very simple: 1000 seats. If you draw a line at a certain test score cut off, only those above that line go on to the cut 2, where the the top X GPAs then survive the culling process. Make sure that those in the mix took the most difficult courses, and if they did not drop them. Then cut further with academic excellence type awards that the students have. Maybe go through the rejected students to make sure none of them are academic superstars in certain areas but did not make the straight line cuts. Don’t want to drop the kid who is close to curing cancer or the Sieman finalist or the published author because of slightly lower test scores and grades. </p>
<p>But these schools do have football teams and pools and marching bands. They have art departments, music departments and humanities departments. They also have political science, social science departments and they want some kids in their to shake some things up in society (though not too much, heh, heh). Dartmouth found out some years ago that if they couldn’t compete in the Ivy League, that maybe they could be asked to drop that designation and then they could become a purely academic school as the then president was huffing and puffing that they would become. Ummm. Not s fast. Loss of that designation was an immeasurable one that would hurt the school terribly So Dartmouth reinstated its swim team and recruits athletes. If you want someone that can swim across that pool fast and wants to go to Hanover, NH, you just might have to give a quarter for that SAT score, you think?</p>
<p>UCLA gets lots of press and immeasurable benefit for playing in the RoseBowl. You think that football team would make the cut the way an academic process should be done? You think those kids who make those cuts can put together a D1 team? I don’t think so. You think top athletes will come to a school where there isn’t some mix of students–that they’ll go to a CIT type of college. I don’t think so. You think these schools, if they just take the top academic kids will continue to attract them. I don’t think so . I was a top academic pick in my day, and I can tell you that there isn’t a chance that I’d have gone to a school that was all top academics Going away to a college was more than the academics to me. Heck, I turned down MIT because the photos in their materials had too many nerdy looking guys with slide rules on their belt, ugly glasses, and pens in their pockets. You go to a MIT presentation these days, and they make it clear that they want some fun in there too. </p>
<p>There are some new UCs out there, and what CA should do is turn one of them into a brain pool. The problem would then be, IMO, is that the top catches would not want to go there. They would want to go with the school with some diversity and take the hit on the lower average test scores. So then it wouldn’t have the top brains. </p>
<p>So there is a pragmatic reason for all of this, as well. The top of the top tend to get to pick where they want to go and they will pick a school with the diversity over the one that considers only academics so that we end up with no such school that has the best academics. This isn’t the Indian Institute of Technology model of education. Those who are top of the top should apply abroad to such schools that have the model they so seek. Don’t go applying to schools that are considered the best because of their whole package approach and then complain you didn’t make the cut because you didn’t have the whole package yourself. </p>
<p>This made me laugh out loud. Best post of the thread!</p>
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<p>This on the other hand made me want to shoot myself. Just tell me whatever college you’re going to and I’ll make sure I don’t go anywhere near it. Wouldn’t want to dilute your American values and your American Separation of Powers (what the hell does that even have to do with this topic?) and your American frat parties with anything even marginally more globally aware or culturally diverse. Holy cow.</p>
<p>As for everyone else, I’ll just say that ANYONE who assumes that someone got in to a school undeservedly is an idiot, and ANYONE who thinks they are owed a spot at ANY school and that those spots are somehow being unfairly stolen from them in some way, is another idiot.</p>
<p>“DD did not want to attend another school where she would have to compete with students whose only lifestyle was to study.”
How does that have anything to do with many of the students being Asian? That sounds like some serious stereotyping to me.</p>