California revisiting Affirmative Action - Asians need to band together and protest.

State Forums
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<p>College shouldn't be about diversity. I don't know about you, but I'm not wanting to go to college because I want to get exposed to an x% of whatever ethnicity as opposed to y%. None of that is what truly matters, and it's absolutely ridiculous how politicians are purposely disregarding this fact. I want to go to get a really good education because I've worked hard.</p>

<p>Higher education is not mandatory in the United States. Yes, everyone should have access to it, but that's different from Affirmative Action. K-12 education is what needs to be granted to everyone, regardless of sex or race.</p>

<p>College, however, is for those of us who have achieved the most, worked the hardest, and gotten the best grades/recognition/honors/whatever. And these circumstances should not be bent because of perceived disadvantages for underrepresented minorities. Yes, Asian students in California take up a disproportionate percentage. What's wrong with that? They clearly deserve to be there. The same cannot be said for those students who didn't get in BASED ON THEIR OWN MERITS, regardless of their race or gender.</p>

<p>This is a simple concept; I don't know why politicians are trying to make it more complicated than it needs to be.</p>

<p>It's already bad enough that affirmative action is in place in private universities. But to implement it in public universities too is just absolutely ridiculous. If this trend continues, then Asians who've worked hard will be forced to attend subpar universities in order to give "disadvantaged" minorities a spot at a good public university.</p>

<p>This will also indirectly result in a discriminatory effect in employment. Why would I hire an Asian who got a 2400 on his/her SAT but who went to a community college, when I can hire a Hispanic who might have gotten 1700 on their SAT who, because of Affirmative Action, was able to attend UC Berkeley? Even though employment is supposedly unbiased? Do you see how that's downright messed up? (And I'm aware that SAT is not the only factor... I'm just trying to make a point.)</p>

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<p>This law may not affect most of us, but what about our children? What about our siblings? It's already exponentially harder for Asians to attend a prestigious university. If this shifts to public universities, think about how that will affect us in 10, 20 years! A 2400 may become even more meaningless for Asians. A 4.0 UW GPA will become absolutely useless. Would you want to see your child, who worked hard and scored a 2300+ on their SAT attend a community college because of Affirmative Action wanting to make the number of Asian students attending public universities proportional to their population? This is the Chinese Exclusion Act all over again (whose idea, by the way, also started in California.</p>

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<p>I love how it is assumed that a few as if African Americans and Latinos constitute extremely large percentages of selective institutions that use affirmative action. URMs with lower stats is going to specifically block the position of an Asian, as opposed to another URM, a Caucasian, or any other non-URM ethnicity. Unless statistics are lying, they are mostly Asian and White. Some selective institutions that use it have almost as many Asians as whites in some incoming classes. If you are in the 75% at these places and are denied, I’m sorry, but the school just didn’t want you. Maybe you were yield protected, or they just didn’t think you fit. I don’t imagine consciously make a decision like: “Ooh, we need to admit more URMs, so this perfect person that we really think fits here gets the axe, sorry”. If your person in the 75% is that easily replaced, the school did not want them that bad in the first place, they viewed them as just another high stat. applicant. Also I really doubt a 2300-2400 would be limited to a community college if they apply to a range of schools (there are of course schools outside of california that love reporting how much more selective their school gets each year that will certainly take the student. Some will even throw significant grants or merit scholarships toward the student if they actually standout, and these places practice AAction). And newsflash, places like Berkeley and other selective schools already have no problem denying students with very high stats, not just Asians. If they don’t want you then they don’t want you. I really doubt that the stats. of the other people don’t matter and did not likely play a role in the decision if you’re in the 75%. If these schools only chose based on stats, many of them (such as Harvard) could have easily already achieved a student body with essentially a perfect SAT average, with everybody basically being white or Asian. Oh wait, that is kind of how it works now…(where URMs usually comprise<20%) and schools have in excess of a 1500 average at extremely selective schools. </p>

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<p>The most selective colleges are looking to enroll a well rounded class.
This includes brilliant people, recruited athletes, URMs, legacies, children of foreign leaders and others.</p>

<p>If you are a valedictorian with perfect test scores, you probably think you earned a spot at the most prestigious universities in the country. Unfortunately, they don’t rank students solely on academics.</p>

<p>Some alumni donate to colleges based on the college’s athletics teams. The power of these institutions is the size of the endowments, which allows them to endow chairs and recruit professors. Additionally, they can provide massive financial aid to students of modest means.</p>

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<p>As someone who goes to a relatively diverse competitive prep school, I agree. URMs consistently get accepted to top tier Ivy League schools, while the Asians are often rejected. The reality is the Asians and URMs at my school are on a level playing field financially, but URMs have the bar set lower for them from birth. I can understand lowering the bar for a kid who went to a bad public school and worked to get a 30 on the ACT, but accepting wealthy blacks with good not great grades and average test scores is wrong. Schools should seek financial diversity, not racial.</p>

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<p>Bernie wrote: “I love how it is assumed that a few as if African Americans and Latinos constitute extremely large percentages of selective institutions that use affirmative action.”</p>

<p>I know, right, Bernie? I mean, has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?</p>

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<p>This sentence / statement tells all about the damage government programs can cause:
“This includes brilliant people, recruited athletes, URMs, legacies, children of foreign leaders and others.”</p>

<p>It is interesting how URMs and others are not included in the brilliant people pool. Yep, like in all transactions, there is no free lunch; one pays somehow. In these case, AA recipients are paying in not being believed as qualified. Is there any other way to interpret this… I really wonder if that is worth the price. </p>

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<p>Well I am a URM but my parents are both immigrants from Nigeria. We Nigerian-Americans have an advantage because we can report that we are black and benefit from affirmative action even though we achieve in school like your average Asian-American. So I’m lucky. Then again I’m still black so maybe I’m not that lucky.</p>

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<p>Most of the Asians at the UC campuses aren’t even American citizens, and they don’t plan on ever becoming one. They come here from their country, where they can’t get the same kind of education, but most return to where they come from after they get their degree, which hurts the USA in the long run. The US has a responsibility to American citizens…of all races…to promote higher education of its own citizens. </p>

<p>Over the years white, black, and hispanic kids have been deliberately avoiding UC campuses, because of the high Asian population. Not because they don’t think they can get in. There’s a reason why UC Irvine is nicknamed “Little Seoul” and why UCLA is nicknamed “UC Lots of Asians.” My daughter has been accepted into both. She’s worked damn hard and has been a straight A student all of her life, but she’s having second thoughts about attending, because they’re so Asian heavy, and she doesn’t feel she would be comfortable or fit in. (My daughter is biracial. White father, black mother.) The schools have to sweeten the deal to get other races of students to WANT to come, so that the racial make up of the universities is more representative of the population of the state they’re in. Here in CA, the UC population looks nothing like the rest of the state. </p>

<p>And, yeah, I’m one of those American’s that is getting sick and tired of Asian attitudes like the OP: subtle implications and put downs that non Asian students just aren’t as motivated. Enough.</p>

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<p>OP, you assert as fact. things that are just your opinion. </p>

<p>I do not like the fact that affirmative action is needed to get the representation of certain groups. That it is a racial thing is particularly odious to me, and I am awaiting the day, it is a thing of the past. On the other hand, yes, it bring DOWN the desirability of schools when they become all minority. It also brings it down when there is a sameness of the sort of students there. </p>

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<p>Completely agree with Dracary’s. My eldest was turned off by the population of the UC schools she was accepted to, because they were heavy asian and, in a room full of students, we could easily pick her out as a URM. She decided to go to school in upstate NY. By the way, UCI, in our neck of the woods, is known as University of Chinese and Indian students. But USC is also referred to as University of Spoiled Children, it’s how you view it.</p>

<p>And OP: my son scored a 2370 on his SAT, won a national merit award, won his Eagle Scout award, did major EC’s including SPORTS, was a legacy at Stanford and Caltech, and when he got into most of his schools, his so-called Asian bitter friends/classmates said it was because he was a URM. He worked hard to get into those schools and to be written off as “undeserving” because of his ethnicity, really annoys and irks me. Grow up! Quit thinking that the only people who deserve to be at those schools should be Asian. How boring!</p>

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WOW and this statement make you NOT racist?. Try to substitute Asian with URM and you will see.</p>

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<p>You gave a perfect example why Affirmative Action should not be a factor. In fact, the man behind Prop 209 is URM. He stated affirmative action is another kind of racial discrimination.
<a href=“Ward Connerly - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Connerly&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>UCI has a higher percentage of URMs (black + Latino + native American) than such upstate NY schools as Cornell, Rochester, RIT, RPI, Ithaca, and Buffalo.</p>

<p>However, all of those upstate NY schools are predominantly white (i.e. at least 50% white), unlike UCI, which is under 20% white. Perhaps in a literal sense, white may be URM at UCI. Perhaps there is discomfort at the idea of a school that is not predominantly white (or at least plurality white).</p>

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<p>@‌DrGoogle - I would like to present another angle to the first quote in your last post that implies aunt bea is racist for avoidance of UC schools. </p>

<p>While the first instinct is to call it racist to not want to attend a university that is “heavily” chinese, there is another aspect, which has nothing to do with race.</p>

<p>I will speak using myself as an example, as compared to some hypothetical. I am American and live and conduct myself via American values; my operating culture has its foundational roots in American values and lifestyle, i.e., the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, Separation of Powers, Individual Freedom etc.</p>

<p>The chinese culture is very different and in many areas, while not inferior, it is different than American culture. I, for one, would choose a school that favors a predominantly American culture for that will reflect student life. I want my American rock bands; I want my American frat parties; I also favor American girls who share my American values. It is not racist of me to want what I grew up with and know culturally</p>

<p>This is completely different than URMs, who in 99% of cases, are also American and understand values and behaviors that are uniquely American. URMs may have alternate views on American culture, but they could be part of student life without wondering what is going on, as they are American. Basically, I am American, not Chinese or other, and that does not make me a racist to favor my own culture. </p>

<p>And to make it even more clear it is not racist. I used to live in France and do not care to live there even if the people may have my skin color and many my ethnicity. It is the culture that is not me, and it is not their ethnicity or race of which I am choosing not to be a part. </p>

<p>Additionally, culture is no different than language because language is derived from culture. I know extremely few people who want to live in place where their language is not predominant. It does not make one racist to desire as much. </p>

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<p>I’m going to offer what I’ve said on other threads - if certain ethnic groups disagree on the state of college admissions as MOST top institutions conduct it, then start your own schools. There are historically black universities, supposedly to support cultural norms and past slights. You might benefit from doing the same since you are so against the current policies.</p>

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<p>This thread is so offensive. My dd was accepted to 3 Ivies and 5 highly selective LACs. Of course, she was bullied at school by an Asian girl. Why? Because the classmate didn’t make into any of the Ivies. If she had bullied this young lady, I’m sure she would have been pulled in on the carpet & reprimanded…and then some. Because it’s wrong and offensive to bully an immigrant. But it’s acceptable to say that blacks don’t belong. Even on this website. </p>

<p>Dd busted her hump since freshman year doubling up on math classes, science classes & foreign language classes. She was the first sophomore to take an AP class in her school because she did so well in freshman year. She also took college classes and did phenomenally well. Her GPA is 3.98 UW and she is in the top 5% of her class. Each summer was spent at a rigorous summer program and last summer she did medical research at Yale. She volunteered with Habitat for Humanity building houses & is a literacy volunteer., volunteered with a NOAA scientist, is an aquarium docent, a mock patient at the Yale School of Medicine amongst other things. Her ECs are interesting and very unique, especially for someone like her. She has won awards and is highly respected by her peers, the teachers/administrators at her school. She was even invited to meet Mrs. Obama last fall because of who she is. They all glow about her…lol the way she treats me is far different and I wonder if they have the wrong child. Her LORs were absolutely amazing. They made me tear up to read how these teachers felt about her.</p>

<p>What is sad is that the Asians at her school don’t see all that she did to get the acceptance letters that she received. They just assume because she is black, she was able to walk in the door and have her way with the adcoms. This is so hysterical to me. I was livid when DD first came home and told me. </p>

<p>What I told her was this…there will be people who will ALWAYS be jealous of your success. And the only way they know how to make you feel inadequate is to pull the race card, so get used to it. This is only the beginning. When DD suggested that they go to the library and print their respective transcripts & resumes, and compare, the girl quickly fled. </p>

<p>What she was able to show in her app was that she worked VERY hard throughout her HS career, she also was able to show that she took very rigorous classes while juggling a job, her ECs and her community service activities which she is incredibly passionate about. </p>

<p>What students need to understand that anyone can go to an SAT test prep factory for 5-6 years and score a perfect 2400. But what else can they show? Can they show that have passion? Heart & soul? Can they have an interesting, powerful presence on a college campus? Can they write a compelling college essay that leaps off of the page? So stop the whining! The sense of entitlement is so incredibly old!</p>

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<p>^ perfectly stated.
It is the complete package that gets you admitted, not test scores. Misinformation regarding perfection has certain cultures riled up, and it never changes.</p>

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<p>Sorry you feel offended. </p>

<p>When I lived in France, 99% of the French had no desire to study in the US or live in the US. It was because they said the culture is too different for them. My reaction was not to be offended and think them racist. They were French after all, not American. They also had no desire to live in England, Italy or Germany. That does not make them racist to those people either. </p>

<p>We will just have to settle on disagreeing that favoring and enjoying the culture one grew up with is somehow inherently racist.</p>

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<p>Lol that made no sense whatsoever, has absolutely nothing to do with this thread and you are making light of calling blacks inferior. </p>

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<p>You guys are kidding me…it is no news nowadays to hear that Asian students with 2300+ have been rejected at top colleges. For Christ’s sake, not only the SAT or inflated GPAs get students into top colleges!! Most universities love well rounded classes…I mean to get in you have to prove to be an invaluable student, from writing to football down to cooking. </p>

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<p>However, most of the Asian students at UCs and other colleges in the US are Asian Americans whose values are likely a lot more culturally American than you apparently think they are (and many of them are not of Chinese ancestry).</p>

<p>Also, fraternity and sorority membership is far from the majority of college students in the US, so it would be a mistake to assume that it is a cultural staple of the American college experience.</p>