“Finally, CA has 33 million inhabitants, and we have only built one UC school in the past 30 years”
33 million? Closer to 40 million. The current population of California is about 39.5 million. It will very likely break 40 million in the 2020 census.
"Switching to a ranked choice system now may work:
Then each admitted applicant would get one UC offer at the applicant’s highest ranked campus/division/match that admitted him/her. Some who do not get admitted into any of their choices get admitted to (probably) UC Merced."
Some great ideas above ucbalumnus for those “shut out” at the “top UC’s”…can possibly still enable a “mid-tier” acceptance for those totally hung up on that! Hopefully, then people will stop complaining about not getting in to their first choice UC!! True they have only built only one UC in 30 years…with 40 million people now…more need to be built!! With the budget crisis the way it is…they will have to be inland in the “middle of nowhere”, on less expensive land in “rural” areas…not so good for those entitled ones still wanting to be by the “big city” or beach! The title of this thread really needs to be…Californian Parents Justified Feeling Bitter Their Kids Are Shutout Of TOP AND MID TIER UC System Schools!
Also, the new capping of OOS Students at the “top 4” UC’s (to current levels) may help with opening more spots for Californians? Posssibly they can be “redirected” by incentive somehow to the other UC’s as well since they can still take up to 18% OOS levels at those locations? May be tough though since OOS students pay so much more and MONEY TALKS.
OOS money doesn’t talk, it walks. OOS students are much less willing to pay OOS prices for a non-flagship state school (except for some specialty schools or when big scholarships bring the price down to in-state or lower). While UC may be intended to be a “flagship system”, both in-state and OOS students mostly see UCB and UCLA as the flagships, and the rest of the UCs as “lesser”. But while in-state students will go to what they see as “lesser” UCs at in-state prices, OOS students may prefer to pay OOS list price for some other state’s flagship instead of a “lesser” UC, even if the “lesser” UC is more selective than that other state’s flagship.
There sure seems to be a lot of use of the word “entitled” as this thread has gone on. How about “disappointed” and show some compassion for people who may not have been as fortunate as others in the admissions game.
Re: #422 and #423
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/freshman-admissions-summary
You can find in-state, domestic out-of-state, and international student yield rates for the UC campuses.
ISY / DOOSY / INTY / campus
49 / 30 / 54 / UCB
47 / 21 / 29 / UCLA
23 / 07 / 17 / UCSD
20 / 07 / 12 / UCSB
25 / 06 / 16 / UCI
23 / 09 / 16 / UCD
18 / 07 / 09 / UCSC
20 / 05 / 07 / UCR
15 / 00 / 01 / UCM
At that site, you can also look at the number of applicants in each category.
Based on the numbers there, the main source of growth in out-of-state applicants and students is in international students, since their application numbers have grown much more rapidly than those of domestic out-of-state applicants, and they tend to yield at higher rates (though still relatively low in application volume and yield compared to in-state students except yield at UCB). Still, they have relatively low interest in UCR and UCM.
^ The shocking thing to me is that UCSD has the same profile as UCSB/UCI/UCD even though in STEM, it’s a peer of at least UCLA.
“OOS money doesn’t talk, it walks”.
Very true ucbalumnus…of course it is “flagship or bust” for OOS students. ASU or U of A is a common example of preference in Arizona for Californians not wanting a “lesser” UC like Merced, Riverside, or Santa Cruz.
“There sure seems to be a lot of use of the word “entitled” as this thread has gone on. How about “disappointed” and show some compassion for people who may not have been as fortunate as others in the admissions game.”
Because the people like myself youcee and many thousands of others that could only apply to ONE UC (Berkeley or UCLA for most) back in the day and didn’t make it were redirected only to UC Riverside and UC Santa Cruz. We did not have the opportunity to apply to UCSD, UCI, Davis, UCSB, UCSC, and Merced like you have today. I’m perfectly happy with my education and college experience. However, it would have been nice to try to at least apply to those others as well which we had no chance to do! No compassion at all…still a big sense of entitlement out there for those that don’t realize or care that they can get a top notch education still at Merced, Riverside, or Santa Cruz!!
You can find in-state, domestic out-of-state, and international student yield rates for the UC campuses.
ISY / DOOSY / INTY / campus
49 / 30 / 54 / UCB
47 / 21 / 29 / UCLA
23 / 07 / 17 / UCSD
20 / 07 / 12 / UCSB
25 / 06 / 16 / UCI
23 / 09 / 16 / UCD
18 / 07 / 09 / UCSC
20 / 05 / 07 / UCR
15 / 00 / 01 / UCM
Thanks for those stats ucbalumnus! Amazing how skewed up those numbers are at the 2 flagships…makes sense!
so you make the complaint that grades are weighted highly, yet they don’t measure IQ. Are you saying that IQ should e the main measurement then? Should kids just take a IQ test instead of the SAT? I think that’s silly. There are questions to the importance of IQ to begin with, and IQ doesn’t measure how hard the person will work. Also, Asian kids have it harder in the admissions process… The argument should be about in state vs. out of state and international, not in-state for 100 years vs. in-state for 10 years
My DS is OOS and applied to UCLA, UCSD, UCSB and UCSC, along with 11 other geographically diverse schools. He wants to study Marine Biology and those 4 schools have good programs. He was accepted to all 4. Interestingly, while UCSC had been the lowest on the list for us, it shot up to the top, because he is offered the Regents and Dean’s scholarships. That is $15K off our cost every year and now puts it on the same level with other schools he is considering in Florida (like UMiami). So maybe “lesser” UCs should offer some incentives for OOS, so it draws those kids away from the more prestige ones. I just wanted to let you know of our experience and I feel bad for all those hardworking California kids that got shut out. Here in Texas we have similar stress with our top 7% system.
Here in NYS we have a pretty good state school system … but there is nobody knocking the door down from out of state. The in state competition only got more intense after the economy tanked in 2008.
Why the desirability of UC vs SUNY?
Could it be the weather? Or would you rather go to Albany and Binghamton and buffalo over LA, Berkeley and SD?
Perhaps NY lacks that big rah rah flagship appeal. UCLA has the Bruins and UCB has the Golden Bears and Binghamton has the ?
In other words … california for all of its faults - has built an awesome UC system. Going to be competition.
Serious question from the right coast.
How are the myriad CA illegal aliens handled in the UC system?
I believe UC is race blind and there is no favoritism for URM or penalty for ORM. So, there would be no hook or bump. True?
Do the illegal aliens get in state tuition rates?
California and some other states (including Texas and Utah) offer resident tuition to those who graduate high school in the state after three years of attendance (or some other related qualifications that may vary by state) and do not exclude unauthorized immigrants. However, it looks like most students in California under these provisions are not unauthorized immigrants (e.g. students who would otherwise have lost residency due to parents moving away).
https://www.ucop.edu/student-affairs/_files/ab540_annualrpt_2011.pdf indicates that 2,404 students in 2010-2011 made use of these provisions in UC, of whom 509 were “potentially undocumented” and 125 were “indeterminate”. Also, the largest ethnic group represented that year in both the “documented” and “potentially undocumented” groups was Asian (not Latino).
Yes undocumented California residents with .CA high school grad do get in state rates. But very few are admitted so the impact is minimal.
I do not believe in giving merit money to OOS students. I don’t see how it benefits the system when there are plenty of qualified residents.
UCLA numbers for our school last year. Numbers of 2 or less are not shown for privacy. School has almost 3000 students.
Hispanic/Latino (60 percent of students)
Applied 20, admitted 2 or less
Asian (20 percent of students)
Applied 80, admitted 20
White (19 percent of students)
Applied 20, admitted 3
So Hispanic (of whom most are legal NOT undocumented students) are not an appreciable impact from our school.
@youcee : Agree.
The built-in hook or bump is the aspect of “challenge,” but this is hardly blind, because my Asian very-ESL student who had to work his you-know-what-off being here not even for his full h.s. career had every element for getting into Berkeley, including tons of genuine leadership which he clearly exhibited, and he was denied at Berkeley without so much as a nod to several challenge factors – such as being here all alone without family. The undocumented are seen as “more challenged.” So someone will now probably scream about money, but – newsflash – my student was QB, so clearly without economic advantages. He attained the same level of accomplishment as Asian students from money and whose parents spent money on college prep kinds of efforts.
Yes, they get in-state tuition rates.
More recent numbers on undocumented students in the California college system (Nov. 2017 from an LA School Report article, with statistics from the California Student Aid Commission):
“California higher education officials estimate that 72,300 undocumented students are enrolled at the state’s public colleges and universities (60,000 at community colleges, 8,300 at Cal State, and 4,000 at UC) and that half were protected by DACA. Spokespersons from the University of California and the California State University systems said there is no official data as these institutions don’t track students’ immigration status.”
"The CSAC processes financial aid applications for all public and private colleges and universities in California. The California Dream Act allows undocumented students meeting certain criteria to receive state-administered financial aid, private scholarships funded through public universities, university grants, community college fee waivers, and Cal Grants.
Also, state legislation AB540 allows non-resident students — both undocumented and citizens — who meet certain qualifications to pay in-state tuition. AB540 students qualify for the California Dream Act benefits."
In addition, each UC and Cal State campus has its own office to support undocumented students.
These policies, particularly the one offering in-state tuition, are not without controversy in California.
@VickiSoCal
I disagree on the merits of extending merit money to OOS students. California in particular has a huge issue with desirable people leaving the state, due to excessive taxation. They need to attract desirable people and the great UC system is perfect way to do this. And, the OOS kids pay higher rates too.
I also find it wrong to offer in state tuition to illegal aliens. Why should a US citizen, pay tens of thousands of dollars annually in federal taxes, pay an OOS rate at a UC or Michigan, Virginia, Florida etc, while a student who is from a family not paying taxes and residing here illegally gets the in state rate? All these schools are federally funded. How can they extend a benefit to an illegal alien over a federal tax paying resident?
That’s just my humble opinion. Others may disagree. And, I truly sympathize with the CA residents who get locked out of the UC system their taxes have supported for years.