Can a negative counselor recommendation ruin my chances?

Applying to College
21

Speaking with her and having an apologetic, non-accusatory heart-to-heart may help. You were having a totally awful day already, and she may have been too – and for all you know she was really insecure about her job performance in her new job. People don’t stop having emotions and completely awful days just because they grow up, they just get better at hiding the tears.

Also, if it’s any reassurance, guidance counselors like to see their students get into good schools. Not only for altruistic reasons; it reflects well on them, job performance-wise. They’re compared to their peers, and if their kids are not getting into good schools at the same rate as the GCs down the hall, you can bet it’s going to come up in their review.

Also #2: The recommendation form lists how long they’ve been your counselor. A college is probably going to question an anomalous lukewarm recommendation from someone who barely knows you.

22

The reason I described the “numbers” issue is because my daughter went through something similar with her new counselor. (AP Spanish!-was not placed in reg 7-8, needed the period for sports). I don’t think my previous response was harsh, just honest.

I was on staff at my kids’ high school, so my dd came into my classroom, very upset (Almost near tears first thing in the morning). I told her that the issue would be resolved, but that she couldn’t go in “upset”. So I told her to wait until she had calmed down and told her to come back before the end of the day.

(FYI, The dd’s counselor hadn’t made the connection between my dd and I, but I knew she liked me because I had helped her, a lot, with a number of Spanish families).

I went over to the counseling building and explained who I was to the GC and then she made the connection. (Ah hah moment). The GC explained the issue, regarding keeping numbers sane in the class, and I asked her to explain this later to my daughter.

The counselor then called in “Annie”, who ran by my room, nervously telling me she was being “called in” with a pass. From what I understand, they had a rational conversation and the GC told the dd that was she was impressed that the teachers all immediately said yes when they heard “Annie’s” name. The schedule was changed.
i*

**The point is, my dd wasn’t emotionally ready and needed time to calm down before approaching another adult. The counselor needed time to FIX the issue. ** Dd was fortunate that Mom worked at the same school, but most kids don’t have that option. But I know my middle daughter and she tends to not view the perspective of others, so she NEEDS time.

Right now, you need time to calm down before you can even go in to talk to your GC. You are going to need that GC for everything college-related. Go get your decaf, then apologize for becoming upset only when you are ready. As a maturing adult, this is what you have to do. You also need to talk to your Principal.

23

You can use that sheet to add a personal note about your regretting the incident, if you can’t talk to her directly (which would be better IMO). You hopefully now understand that she was new, she has a large number of students she is responsible for, and while she took responsibility for the mistake, that hardly makes her someone to “despise” or “useless”. It makes her human, like you.

I don’t know what schools you are applying to, so can’t say whether any don’t require a counselor rec, but all the selective private schools I can think of do.

24

Your guidance counselor is a professional, not a teenager having a temper tantrum.

She will search for anything positive she can say about you.

That said, it doesn’t look as though you went out of your way to give her good things to say.

25

I’m guessing that with 300 kids everyone will get a very generic letter.

But I do agree with the many who suggested putting on a mature face and having a brief talk to clear the air with the guidance counselor. Chances are you are holding more of a grudge than the GC. .

26

An average load for a HS counselor is 350 students.

27

@me29034 I didn’t argue with the people above. I was giving them additional details that I didn’t mention and yes I am going to take this advice. I’m sorry that I had a bad day and shed some tears when someone was being unhelpful, but I asked whether a bad recommendation will hurt me and for advice.

28

Yes, a bad rec will really hurt you at selective colleges.

I beg to differ with the advice given earlier about apologizing. This is something that happened a few months ago, this being the middle of November. Any “apology” now is likely to be seen as a calculated attempt to manipulate the counselor for your benefit during college app season rather than a sincere expression of regret. And that would be accurate, because in your opening sentence you write “I absolutely despise her.” So don’t bet on her being to dumb to figure out you’re trying to play her.

My advice is not to bring it up with her, to cross your fingers and hope she gives you a generic rec, and to spend some effort finding colleges that do not ask for a counselor rec in addition to the ones you’ve already selected.

29

@snarlatron @ScreenName48105 @collegemom3717 @pittsburghscribe @JustOneDad @me29034 @whatthewhat @bodangles @Malcomx99 @Pheebers @OHMomof2 @bjkmom @happy1 @mikemac
Thanks for the advice. I’ve tried talking to her before to help make up, but she dismissed me so easily. I had met with her again and apologized for my emotional instability and then tried to strike up a conversation about what college is best for me (like most beautiful campus, etc) and she acted so cold. I don’t know if it’s in her personality to give curt responses and apathetically seem not interested in anything I say. I had tried to apologize, but she didn’t even forgive me or anything… She just said “okay” and told me that she wasn’t the right person to talk to about my college choices. I mean come on!! You’re an academic counselor!!
Should I go speak to her again? If I do, I feel like I’ll be annoying her…

I understand that I made a mistake, but I can’t help feeling that she’s super butthurt about the situation. (btw I actually didn’t create a scene. The office was nearly empty and I wasn’t bawling. They were basically silent tears streaming down my face, while my nose was really runny… I doubt anyone noticed other than my counselor and the Principal.)
TYSM

30

So typical, we can’t he too harsh/realistic in giving advice for fear of hurting someone’s feelings.

31

It’s possible that she wasn’t feeling your attempt was genuine.

32

Apparently this woman needs time to have her Wheaties, so keep your relationship at a business and generic level. If she’s uncomfortable with you, that’s on her. You tried. . . . . . done.

She’s the adult and she needs to be a professional so avoid her until you absolutely have to see her for the midyear reports.

33

@TomSrOfBoston You can be realistic without making it so personal and judgemental. I asked for advice on what to do and whether or not this would kill my application. Not for some people to jump to conclusions and call me immature. I am super grateful for the responses and I recognize my mistakes that crying was extremely stupid of me, but I don’t need everyone to point out how childish I am. Thank you

34

@“aunt bea” All right, thanks for the solid advice. I just really want to make up, but I also don’t want to make her more frustrated with me

35

This is a really unfortunate situation, and I’m sorry it happened to you. Yes, a bad counselor recommendation can definitely hurt, but given what’s happened so far and that you’ve already tried to rectify things, you’re probably better off steering clear of her and hoping for the best. You should be prepared, though, for possible questions about this from admissions committees. Think carefully now about how you’d respond if you suddenly received a call from someone at one of your top schools saying that your counselor recommendation had raised some questions in their minds and asking whether you could offer any insight into the situation. This will be very tricky but is doable—write out a script, be sure it doesn’t sound accusatory or defensive, and then run it by trusted adults. Rehearse it and ask the adults to think of follow-up questions they might ask if they were on the admissions committees. Then try to answer those, too. Rehearse some more, over and over, until any anger/frustration you feel toward this counselor doesn’t come through. You may never get any calls asking about this, but you need to be prepared for them. Also, if your teacher recommendations aren’t great, try to find someone else (preferably at your school) who will write something strong on your behalf.

36

@Planner Thank you! I’m just hoping my counselor is responsible enough to try to help me and show compassion towards me. I honestly thought she wouldn’t purposely make me look terrible, but who knows what people are thinking? My teacher recs are pretty solid and I have an additional rec from my sports coach who likes me and talked about my leadership qualities as a team captain.

37

It’s also possible that she was simply too busy for a chat. Did you make an appointment with her, or just stop in and hope she was free for a chat? I know that the admissions people in my school haven’t seen the light of day for months.

38

I think it’s time to give this a rest. You’ve made an effort to apologize. Done. I doubt any school will call you to discuss a GC recommendation. If they do, it will be a first in the history of CC.

By the way, the expectation that a public high school guidance counselor at a large school is the right person to discuss your college options with is a mistake. As I said earlier, they are much too busy helping students with serious personal issues. Their knowledge of the higher educational system is usually limited to the local state schools and community colleges, options available for students who won’t be continuing their educations, and the information that the college rec forms requires from them. They are not trained to be your college guidance counselor - a function that is provided by private schools for a hefty fee. That’s why people come to CC or hire their own college counselors. There are exceptions - at magnet programs for example. Or individuals who make it their business to learn this stuff - but that is not part of the job description in most cases.

39

@divinggirl6 Great—good luck!

@N’s Mom I’m sure it wouldn’t be the first time a school would call about a recommendation. Also, some high school guidance counselors at large schools are very knowledgeable about colleges. My son went to a huge public high school where each counselor has nearly 200 students, and his counselor couldn’t have been better. I say this as someone who has been active in college admissions for three decades and is very well versed in what it takes to get into elite schools. We didn’t need to hire a college counselor. Other counselors at my son’s school were also reportedly good. So the situation can vary a great deal—if I were a student (or parent) who didn’t know much about college admissions and whose counselor didn’t seem particularly knowledgeable, I’d certainly try to find a good private college counselor. But I think it’s a mistake to assume that counselors at large public high schools are too busy with other things or don’t know enough to provide good college counseling. It really depends, and students and their parents should carefully assess the situations at their particular schools.

40

Really depends on the school. My kids’ had the same one (they go by letter of last name), and her caseload was about 300 students. She was very attentive, helpful and knowledgeable. She met with the kids one-on-one at least once a year from 9th grade on (more if asked), with the parents if asked, was just a wonderful resource. She wrote recs from her experience, the school record and also from detailed questionnaires, one for the student and one for the parents.

As it happened, we really didn’t use her to help develop the college list, we had CC for that, but I know other students did.