Our counselor’s case loads were about 200 I think. They had a system where they did a lot of college counseling in small groups and had bigger info sessions for parents and students together. There was one meeting in the spring and one in the fall for individual college counseling which mostly consisted of showing you what Naviance spit out as suggestions based on what you told the GC you were looking for. The school asked students to provide a brag sheet and have a teacher in the school write a short recommendation for the GC junior year so that they’d have a little extra so the letters wouldn’t sound as generic. I realize now how lucky we were.
Anyway to the OP, yes a bad recommendation can sink your chances, but a generic one will have no real effect one way or another. Colleges realize that at most public high schools the GCs don’t know their students well. They will look at your teacher recommendations - which will always be more important anyway. Given that you have already tried to apologize and the GC seems stressed by conversations with you, I’d just lie low and hope for the best. I think it’s unlikely she will talk about this incident.
Many guidance counselors who use the Common App or any other generic form, usually don’t even fill out the written part. They just fill in bubbles, so you could just get one of those and luck out. If your teacher recs are good then you should be good. It also depends on the school on how they weight the letter of rec, some schools don’t even look at it. You will be fine, good luck!
No one has mentioned this yet, but as a mother of a senior, I would not have expected a phone call from the bathroom under these circumstances. It’s too late now, but even in middle school the more mature kids are able to (if needed) ask for parental advice at home, and then figure out strategies to move forward. If I were the GC, the big sign of immaturity to me would be that running out for the tearful call to your Mom for rescue.
Indeed I would expect that the letter will not have “maturity” checked off with a high ranking. Unclear how much effect it will have.
@fretfulmother Thank you for your insight. However, isn’t it unusual for a guidance counselor to judge how mature their students are? Btw I mentioned this in a comment: I didn’t exactly dash out the room and make a racket… My eyes were watering and I probably looked like a sniveling brat.
My counselor doesn’t even know the names of her students… I’ll just hope that she puts this behind her
And I would add, @divinggirl6, your question shouldn’t actually be “can a negative counselor rec…” but rather, “can one instance of being really immature and borderline rude ruin my chances for admission” which is a much more interesting question.
I would say that one such instance can ruin your chances at a top college if the adults in your life think it is representative enough to mention or allude to in their descriptions of you. And indeed, I think that top colleges have enough kids who don’t behave that way, or who hide it successfully, that they can afford not to take the chance. They don’t want you to enroll at Harvard, if the first problem there you’ll be calling your mother and marching into the Dean’s office in a huff.
In short, the wrong English class would make IMO less impact on your applications than your behavior.
This is a very important fact for students to understand. We had a student at my school where I teach, who made such a tantrum about a B+ instead of an A- in Chemistry, that her teachers and GC could not in good faith write very strong LORs. That B+ would not have kept her out of any school, but the letters definitely did (I saw them, though did not participate in this process). She seemed utterly unaware that her behavior was so poor, particularly compared to other kids. Possibly even if she had seen the letters, she wouldn’t have noticed the absence of praise for her maturity or resilience, though that was in other kids’ letters. Students should be aware, further, that even (not relevant in your case, I know) grade-grubbing/complaining for a few points can make teachers think less of them, though most aren’t expecting super-human self-control. Remember, you’re being compared to everyone else around you, in all categories.
However, it seems likely that your GC might not report this behavior of yours - in which case you should be feeling only gratitude toward her, not “despising” her.
Not for the OP, but for others who may be in a similar situation. Sometimes there really are scheduling conflicts. My kids’ GC’s each had to write “Mathson took regular ____ instead of honors ____ due to a scheduling conflict.” It had a small effect on their rank and overall GPA, but they both got into fine schools.
What do I base the “most” schools on? I’ve been on CC for ten years. I’ve heard what hundreds of parents have said about what it is like at their schools. At most public schools (which is where most students attend) GCs are very overworked. They do not know their students well, if at all. They send out transcripts and a school profile and a generic letter if any. The better schools have figured out ways to make the letters less generic even if they don’t actually know the students that much better.
This will sound snarky but did you seriously think you could impress a guidance counselor by asking her to recommend “the most beautiful” colleges? I can’t see that improving her opinion of you.
Just meet with her and flat out ask about the GC recommendation, and if you could get teachers or others to talk to her or send her written recommendations since she doesn’t know you that well.
To be honest, she has known you since September, so that it two and a half months? What could she really know about you?
Scheduling can be challenging. I know my D is not taking all the AP courses she wanted because the scheduling didn’t work or classes were full. Her high school offers many APs but often there is just one section. One example I am familiar with is AP Environmental Science which my D did get into. There is only one section offered and they had twice as many kids request it than could be accommodated. They let kids in based on past science grades and schedule fit. A lot of kids wanted the class and didn’t get it. I see kids on CC posting about taking 7 AP courses but there is no way that would happen at D’s school even though on paper they seem to offer a lot. When submitting schedules, our kids are asked to prioritize their selections and they never get everything they want.
@fretfulmother Well, I hope she doesn’t report the incident… Maybe I shouldve explained to her what a terrible day I was having, tho she just waved me off. Btw the difference between a B+ and A- can pretty major in an important class like Chemistry. If that teacher isn’t writing a LoR for you, I dont see why grade grubbing is a negative thing?
At my school, this boy was angry with his English teacher because he believed she purposely gave him a B, instead of an A because she hated him. (I don’t rly know her, but there are lots of rumors about her being racist towards Hispanic students) The boy took up the issue with the district education board and he ended up with an A in the class and he’s now at MIT.
I’m not advocating for excessive grade grubbing, but personally, I would fight for myself instead of trying to keep my image positive in the eye of a teacher, who will have no impact on my future and doesn’t like me anyways. Thanks for your input!
@me29034 At my school, when you pick your schedule for the next year, your counselor and teacher must accept your requests (making sure you passed regular bio before moving on to AP bio). There is a 99.9% chance you will get your desired schedule. I was that exception lol…
I feel like my counselor probably didnt understand how important that AP Lit class is to me. I guess counselors are so used to talking one on one to failing, struggling students instead of ones who see the educational value in another AP class. Thank you foe the input!
Well, the cake is baked so I wouldn’t worry about it too much now. If she does hold it against you, chances are she’ll write a neutral, read-between-the-lines rec rather than an outright negative one. Your teacher recs will provide a counterweight in that case. (Right?) Best of luck to you.
@NavalTradition Thank you!! I don’t mind a neutral counselor rec as long as it isn’t a straight up negative one. Yes, I think my teacher recs will be great.
It’s honestly so unfortunate. I’ve havent cried in school since elementary school and the time I choose to break down is in front of someone who has my future in her hands… I guess I was just having a terrible day
@divinggirl6 - I actually don’t think the crying is the problem; it’s the lack of maturity in the rest of the story: the calling Mom; the going to the Principal; the lack of perspective to consider other options. I was thinking about this; what were your other options? You could (since it turns out it was the same teacher) have talked to her about doing the extra work for a few days/weeks until someone else dropped down and there was a spot. You could have planned to self-test for the AP and put a note in your applications; you could have gone back to the GC when calm to suggest asking the teacher for a numbers override…lots of possibilities.
To answer your other question, yes grade-grubbing is a problem because teachers talk to each other. It’s an obnoxious behavior. I tell my own boys, “the ding to your character and reputation from complaining far exceeds any points you would get back”. The teacher could be less willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in future assignments, I would think, if you’re a whiner. (Probably a bigger issue in the humanities where grading can be more capricious.)
You may not see what is checked off or written for other kids, but I promise you it is a better letter if you’re mature and resilient and not a complainer. I have no way to judge the kid in your school and his English grade. It sounds like he was a talented URM who had a penchant for MIT so it’s not on balance surprising that he got in there. I still think going to the School Board over a B sounds looney. You say that the difference between a B+ and an A- in Chemistry is significant, and I don’t disagree. But the girl earned a B+. She wanted an A-. Her behavior led to a much bigger problem than the grade (which didn’t change anyway).
What you want is the sentence like that I once saw in a LOR - “When I said, about XYZ incident, ‘that’s not fair,’ [student] said, ‘well, life isn’t fair, Ms. Z! But I’ll do this instead…’ This indicated maturity and resilience that will serve her well in college.”
