Can Someone Prod Me In The Right Direction?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I spent the summer looking into a few colleges and sifting through a massive heap of college letters. And after all this, I am still mostly lost. Can someone please help me out?</p>

<p>I'm a rising senior, and I have pretty good grades. I go to a competitive SoCal school and my GPA is 3.7/4.3 (this is a close estimate. I don't actually have my transcripts on me). My grades have an upward trend. Started off by getting a handful of Bs, but by Junior year, I only got 1 B each semester, and both times it was in AP Chem, which, frankly, was FREAKING hard for me. But I took 4 APs that year, so it turned out quite well.</p>

<p>My SAT score is 2210, but I'm thinking of retaking it and seeing if I can get it above 2300. I took two SAT IIs so far. History: 770. Lit: 720. I'm gonna retake Lit because I didn't finish last time, and I think if I finish, I can get really close to 800. I'm also going to take Math II C but math isn't my strong suit, so I'm going to have to really study for that one.</p>

<p>The schools I'm looking into are UCLA, Oberlin, Kenyon, Brown, Princeton, and USC.</p>

<p>I love writing, and I'm seriously considering a career in creative writing and I'm accepting the fact that I'm probably not exactly going to be rolling in the dough. So that's why I'm interested in Oberlin and Kenyon. But on the other hand, I want lots of room to try lots of different things out, and maybe even give the sciences another shot and take a swing at politics and maybe psychology (AKA I want to really branch out). </p>

<p>I keep hearing that at small liberal arts colleges like Oberlin and Kenyon, one might not have the variety of courses one might find at, say, UCLA. But would that be an issue for me? When they talk about "lack of variety," are they referring to those really specific and random courses like Literary Analysis of Harry Potter?</p>

<p>Also, another problem someone pointed out with small LACs is that you see the same people all the time and everyone's in each other's business, and that in a large university like UCLA, you can see tons of new faces and meet lots of new people. On the flipside, people say LACs are generally more familial and comfortable. How valid are these views?</p>

<p>So does anyone see any college in my list that strikes you as an obvious choice? Or can anyone point out a college they think would interest me? Or at this point, is it just a matter of visiting and finding an environment I'd like, seeing as how I'm wavering so much as to the direction I want to head in in terms of majors and careers? And being perfectly honest, do I even stand a chance at places like Brown and Princeton? </p>

<p>Anyways, I hope this wasn't too long, and thanks to anyone who takes the time to help me out! If there is anything I didn't address that can help, please let me know!</p>

2

<p>Wow. Too many questions :wink: I think you posted questions which should probably be broken up and spread across the forum. You might want to start off by posting a “Chance me…” post just to answer that question.</p>

<p>As far as LAC vs UCLA, and lifestyle and variety. By variety small school vs big school, the difference depends on the schools (sorry). Mostly you’re looking at having a smaller selection of potential majors in the LAC’s vs the big schools. Since you typically need to take a breadth of courses, your choices shrink at the smaller schools. Of course, you choose the smaller school in the first place because it has most of the choices you want. Smaller schools tend to be more focussed, while larger ones allow you to shop around.</p>

<p>Is this an issue for you? Up to you. Do you want the option of a geology, anthropology, engineering, biology course? Do you want the option to minor outside of your chosen field? Do you want the option to change your mind about your major yet stay in the same school? If you know what you want, congrats btw, then you don’t need the options.</p>

<p>As to seeing the same people, forget about it. Once you get into your major at any school, of any size, you’re going to be seeing the same people. At a large school your social life will lead you to meet people doing a lot more things, but frankly in the end most folks tend towards their own major, or near major. It’s hard for a Physics major to discuss Renaissance Art, so people tend to gravitate towards their own. The only catch I can see is you would get a wider range of invited lecturers at a large school compared to a small school.</p>

<p>Visit the schools and see what fits best for you. Also visit the town at the same time, because you’re gonna be living there for four years, see if it interests you.</p>

3

<p>You are asking great questions.
One way to assess “course variety” for yourself is to compare the online course listings for your possible major. My daughter was very surprised to see at one LAC that there were only five classes offered during the fall semester in her intended major, none with the professor whose work interested her and none that sounded great. She compared that listing to a larger public, which offered more than 40 classes for the same semester in the same major.</p>

4

<p>University of Iowa is known for their creative writing. The undergrad component is through a competitive process - apply late in soph year, begin junior year.</p>

<p>[Department</a> of English | College of Liberal Arts & Sciences | The University of Iowa](<a href=“http://www.english.uiowa.edu/undergrad/writing/]Department”>http://www.english.uiowa.edu/undergrad/writing/)
[Department</a> of English | College of Liberal Arts & Sciences | The University of Iowa](<a href=“http://www.english.uiowa.edu/undergrad/]Department”>http://www.english.uiowa.edu/undergrad/)</p>

<p>Since you are in Socal, have you looked at the creative writing at Pomona?</p>

5

<p>I can’t think of schools that are much more opposite than USC/UCLA as compared to Kenyon/Oberlin- and I have been to 3 of those 4. I do think you need to visit both types of schools to see where you feel most comfortable because frankly, it wouldn’t seem to me that those two groups of schools have much overlap in applicants at ALL. Rural Ohio LACs and huge big city schools in SoCal? Since you live in SoCal, I would assume it is fairly easy for you to visit UCLA and USC. If you can’t visit Ohio, visit some of the smaller LACs near you (Pomona, Pepperdine, etc.- even University of Redlands) and see which type of school appeals to you more. Then if you decide LACs are an option for you and you apply to Kenyon and Oberlin, you could visit them after admissions decisions. As for Brown and Princeton, those are reaches for almost everyone, and unless you have a hook of some sort, your GPA and scores alone aren’t enough.</p>

6

<p>Thanks for the advice, guys.</p>

<p>^ Yeah, I know. I actually don’t know much about USC, but I’m applying there because I think I might be a national merit semifinalist and USC gives out a bunch of half scholarships/full scholarships to kids at my school who got national merit every year. I visited UCLA, and I loved what I saw of it: the kids seem very nice and fun, but serious about academics as well. But it has about 20,000 kids, and at the moment, I’m not too sure about whether I want a small school or not. And Kenyon and Oberlin I chose because of their writing programs. And Brown and Princeton are just reaches that I really liked and could not find much fault in. But as you can see, my list is all over the place and I’m pretty much undecided about everything that would help me situate myself better -.-</p>

7

<p>On course selection:</p>

<p>Look at the course catalogues. UChicago’s English department (I use English departments as a bellwether of general course variety and interest because I like English a lot but am not going to major in it) was very blahhh. It’s a major research university! But there were just not enough courses in the entire catalog of all majors for me to complete my education at Chicago taking courses that I was excited about. There were maybe six courses I was excited about for every ten courses I was required to take. At Princeton, which I lovedlovedloved before I visited, the course catalog was one minor factor that kept me from applying–there were only about 1/3 as many courses I was excited about as there were slots to take courses. At Harvard? There are many times more courses I would love to take than there are slots. Wooooooo :D</p>

<p>I can sit down and read a course catalog for three or four schools. I’m unusual like that. Luckily, I only ended up applying to four schools. More schools and I would have had difficulty. If you don’t feel like spending that much time, especially before you get in, read the course listings in the two or three departments in which you are most likely to major, and one that you want to take at least a couple electives in.</p>

<p>Also, beware of colleges (Swarthmore I am looking at you!) that hide their most interesting offerings behind a wall of prereqs (I have to take three specialized but easy English courses to take any of the specialized but interesting ones?) or limit them to students majoring in that subject. Not don’t apply, but do be aware.</p>

<p>On small vs. large:</p>

<p>A person who is better suited to a small environment will want their college to feel like a family. They like having every one of their professors know their names. They like seeing people they recognize every day as they walk to class. College should feel homey. If they went to a large environment, they might feel lost, swamped, and lonely.</p>

<p>A person who is better suited to a large environment will want their college to give them a lot of freedom. They like the responsibility entrusted to them, to know their professors or not, to do well in school or not. They will probably become close with a few professors, but on their own volition, not because the professors are familial authority figures who care about every student. They like all the options and the adventure of it all. If they went to a small environment, they might feel claustrophobic, trapped, and bored.</p>

<p>Which is more you? Some people would do fine at both, but I think it’s a useful test.</p>

8

<p>Thanks a lot, Lirazel, and congratulations on getting into Harvard. That’s really amazing. Man, I feel so lost, not because I don’t have the means of getting information, but because I myself have no idea what I want. I honestly do not know if I want a small school or a big school. I like the idea of a big school because I will be able to meet tons of different people and see new faces. And I won’t be surrounded by the same people 24/7. But at the same time, I feel that at a smaller school, I might get more attention and time from professors, and as you have said, I may have a more familial experience at college. But at the same time, what if I find that I go to a small college, find that there is a certain homogeneity in the small population that I don’t fit into? That probably wouldn’t happen at a big school where I might eventually find a niche to fit into… GAH!! maybe I’m just thinking about it too much.</p>

<p>I go to a high school that has maybe a bit fewer than 2000 kids. And I know a college with 2000 kids would be considered quite small. To be honest, I really don’t like high school much. It’s not as if I get stuffed in lockers or anything like that, but I just don’t fit in very well with the kids here. I moved to a very affluent area, and everyone here–including myself–is very rich and all they seem to care about is cars, beer, and drugs, or on the flipside, they are AP zealots who are frankly scary to talk to. I don’t want to come off as arrogant. It’s not that I look down on everyone. I just don’t really fit in. And part of the reason might be that it’s a small environment. And I’m worried that if I go to a college with ~2000 people (like Oberlin and Kenyon), I will find myself in the exact situation. Is this a legitimate worry? Or by the time I go to college, will it be a whole 'nother story because the kids will be a lot more mature and will be coming from all over the place?</p>

<p>I guess I’ll just have to make sure I visit colleges and see how I feel. Too bad the summer’s already running out… Maybe I’ll just save the visits until after I see which colleges I get accepted into.</p>

<p>Did you guys do the same?</p>

<p>P.S. I read over this, and it looks like I just bombarded you guys with a whole bunch of questions that really should have been different threads in different forums. But thanks to all of you guys who read this thread anyways and helped me out :)</p>

9

<p>You absolutely need to visit several schools and feel the difference. You should then get a clear idea of which extreme feels right or if you want a mix which is out there too.</p>

<p>Princeton and brown? Is your rank very, very high?</p>

10

<p>I honestly think that no one could have summed it up better than you. I have the exact same SAT I score and the same grades as you and I’m having the same problems choosing between a big university or a small college.
I’m also having a lot of problems choosing a major :[
I really don’t know what to choose! On one hand I find history, debate, english, literature, art, and many other liberal arts related subjects completely fascinating, yet at the same time I am curious about science as well! I also think I’d rather like a career in the medical field, but I’m at a loss.
I’m at a crossroads and I don’t know what to pick; should I go with science, stick it out, and enjoy the career I may eventually come across? Or should I go with liberal arts that has courses that truly interest me and stimulate personal interest? My problem is that I’m interested in too many things and it’s making selecting a university really difficult for me.
On the other hand, I was considering between UCLA, USC, and Pomona. Pomona honestly seems like a great selection, it’s a small school but 90% of it’s students become med students. HOWEVER I don’t know if I’d like a small environment. What if I don’t like the people? It’s so scary to throw yourself into High School Version 2 when College is supposed to be the experience of a lifetime. Yet UCLA and other public schools are so big and … what if I don’t find a niche there as well? AND get a worse education?</p>

<p>I don’t know :[</p>

11

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<p>Virtually any selective LAC will have what I think you mean by “specific and random courses”. Probably not “Literary Analysis of Harry Potter”, but more or less unusual courses that reflect either (a) the interests of the faculty, or (b) what is trendy in academia or in the world at large. What you generally will not find at a LAC is courses in Sanskrit or Old High German, as you would at a large research university like Berkeley.</p>

<p>Each school’s mission and culture will influence the interests of the faculty and the curriculum choices they make. Harvard’s approach is typically to go out and hire the best faculty they can get, then let them teach pretty much whatever interests them. Chicago’s approach is to go out and hire the best faculty they can get, sit them all down in room to discuss endlessly what they think is the knowledge most worth having for an undergraduate student, then design a program of instruction around that. Chicago has no undergraduate departments per se; courses are designed in the context of the “Core” concept. But there is a lot of overlap in the material covered by both programs. Chicago for instance offers a course on Coetzee focusing on the theme of “political transition and justice” in South Africa; Harvard offers one on “Virginia Wolf and J.M. Coetzee” (presumably reflecting the instructor’s insights about common or contrasting features of these two authors’ works.)</p>

<p>I agree it is a good idea to explore the catalogs. In addition, go visit your schools to observe the classroom dynamics. I attended both Harvard and Chicago and observed a fairly big difference in instructional style. Chicago favors seminars with small groups of students sitting in a circle. The professor typically asks probing questions closely focused on primary source material, then does not talk much except occasionally to introduce a follow-on question or interject a comment (sometimes sarcastic). At Harvard what I observed in undergraduate classes was a tendency for star faculty to hold forth on their research interests, more or less as it pertained to the material at hand, as students listened. This was many years ago; I can’t be sure how representative these observations are of the reality at these two schools (then or certainly now). My point is that you ought to go visit and closely observe teaching at a few schools, to see the variations and decide what atmosphere you prefer.</p>

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<p>^Good advice. Visit! (As I said, I lovedlovedloved Princeton on paper. I visited. Everything I can express about it was perfect, except the location, which was merely good. I hated it anyway. I’m not trying to diss it, though! It’s a phenomenal place, just not for me.) Also, school-year visits, while a headache to organize, are much more helpful than summer visits. Long weekends are a good time to go. If you can’t visit until you’ve been accepted, that’s fine for making the choice of which college to attend, but not so helpful for figuring out which colleges to which to apply.</p>

<p>And how did you enjoy going to a high school of 2000 students? Are you able to separate the general-blahness of the high school from the size? (I can understand if you can’t.) By the time I was a rising senior at /my/ 2000-person high school, for example, I was ready to bang my head through a locker at how small it all felt. (It probably didn’t help that in high school there is much less inter-grade socialization than in college, so the effective pool of people with whom you can hang out is much smaller than 2000.) </p>

<p>The level of effort you’re willing to make to get attention from your professors is also an issue. I would prefer to be left alone sometimes, so I erred on the side of having to hunt down my professors than having the professors of all of my classes reach out to me.</p>

<p>I would guess that the top liberal arts colleges are not too homogenous. Amherst may be more homogeneously preppy than Williams or Swarthmore, but all will have their pick of a variety candidates. I don’t know much about Kenyon but my one friend who is going there…I can’t imagine a student body of which she would become part of a homogenous majority. She’s too interesting! Oberlin also gives me a diverse-in-some-ways vibe. One friend who visited said that they weren’t diverse in their footwear (rain boots and Keds, but it may have been raining then), but otherwise it does seem diverse. Some of the liberal arts colleges a bit lower down on the selectivity scale than AWS (like Bard) do seem like you have a valid concern, though.</p>

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<p>Symmetrical Sunshine far from 90% of Pomona’s students become doctors, thats just the acceptance rate (if not higher) for those who apply to med school. I’m a pomona student, btw.</p>

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<p>Hey, Anonymous, Pomona’s a pretty small school, right? In your opinion, do you see the low population as a good thing? I mean, is it a very Hogwartsy type of feel where everyone knows each other and greets each other in the halls and stuff? Or do you dislike it? And if you dislike anything about the size, what is it?</p>

15

<p>For me, Pomona was a pretty major change. I came from an inner city NYC public high school having over 4200 students. I thought that Pomona might be a little small for me, since I liked the size of my high school. Thankfully, I never felt stifled by Pomona’s low student population. Although there are only 390-400 students in your class, I made many friends in the older classes, and I also met a lot of students from the other schools. Yes, over time you will pretty much see everyone’s face, but its not like everyone knows everyone. If you get tired of seeing the same faces in the dining hall, you can go to the 5 other ones around the 5C’s (claremonts). The food is great so I highly recommend this :slight_smile: I don’t think I know more than 30% of my freshman class, and I really only know a couple of people very well, and I’m far from a hermit. The only people you really see constantly are the people in your hall (and through the sponsor group program, its easy to make friends in your hall as opposed to other colleges which do not foster any type of interaction). </p>

<p>Students are typically very friendly, and people do greet each other in the halls/ outside of class. I do think the low population is a good thing. You can develop strong friendships with fellow classmates as well as get individual attention in your classes. You also have the possibility of developing a strong relationship with your professors (very important). For example, I had trouble crafting a thesis and working on a difficult paper, but the professor gladly met with me for two hours to help me. How many other schools’ students have this opportunity? (esp a large uni). </p>

<p>I can’t really say if Pomona feels like a typical high school (because there was no popular crowd or anything like that in my mega school), but I can say that you will develop several close friendships over your years and most likely have an amazing time. There are always more people to get to know. I’m itching to get back to campus already!</p>