<p>You’re approaching this as if your life at ends at about age 22. Do well in any college, you’ll have a decent shot at any of your top-tier schools for graduate school, which is what really matters in the long run. Further, what seperates the “average” from the above average is determination. You’re going to face rejection, everyone is, but you’ll become successful when you persevere, and decide that instead of sulking in mediocrity, you’ll perform better, for your own standards. Determination defeats intelligence, during and after college.</p>
<p>Sorry, but if you think that students happily pursue their academic and ec interests, and get into an ivy just because it “happens” to be a good fit, you’re delusional. sure, students that follow their interests are accepted to ivies, but they don’t just blindly follow these interests without thinking of the affects it will have on their college admissions. No teenager just so happens to do in depth and time consuming ec’s while maintaining nearly perfect grades in an impressive course load because it makes them happy.</p>
<p>“No teenager just so happens to do in depth and time consuming ec’s while maintaining nearly perfect grades in an impressive course load because it makes them happy.”</p>
<p>There really are people like that. In fact, I know some people like that.</p>
<p>They also tend to grow into adults who enjoy their jobs and work hard at their jobs while also pursuing their other passions like community service, being active in their church, or being active in political, arts or other activities.</p>
<p>^^Well, I think I am somewhat similar to the student @Northstarmom described. I have thoroughly enjoyed my high school years, I have taken tough classes and achieved high marks, held a tough part-time job during my senior year (20+ hours per week), and I have seriously pursued extracurriculars (namely music). Most of these things I did for fun, because I was able to find some sort of enjoyment or personal benefit in my activities (including school).</p>
<p>That being said, I was rejected by every Ivy. :)</p>
<p>Who knows! It’s probably because I’m very WASPy. That’s my arrogant way of rationalizing things.</p>
<p>So, @curious123, I disagree. I enjoyed high school, and I got into some great schools (Ivies aren’t everything). But also, I have some problems with @Northstarmom’s post. Your first line makes it sound as though a rejection means the school would not have been a good fit for you. I don’t think this is true. I guess I’m not as trusting of admissions processes.</p>
<p>In the end, none of this matters. Go to college. Get an undergraduate degree. That matters. It doesn’t matter where you get it.</p>
<p>There was a guy accepted to Yale last year who had only been persuaded to apply to anywhere other than UT Austin and a few other Texas state schools about 1 or 2 months before SCEA apps were due. Due to his stellar credentials (which he compiled by following his passions, not by trying to impress Ivy adcoms), he was accepted.</p>
<p>^That’s great and all, but it doesn’t work for many (most) students. I wasn’t trying to please the adcoms - I don’t think most rejected applicants were. There’s no secret to Ivy admission - it’s a crapshoot.</p>
<p>^^ Case rested.</p>
<p>"^^Well, I think I am somewhat similar to the student @Northstarmom described. I have thoroughly enjoyed my high school years, I have taken tough classes and achieved high marks, held a tough part-time job during my senior year (20+ hours per week), and I have seriously pursued extracurriculars (namely music). Most of these things I did for fun, because I was able to find some sort of enjoyment or personal benefit in my activities (including school).</p>
<p>That being said, I was rejected by every Ivy. "</p>
<p>Doing those things doesn’t mean you’re going to be accepted by an Ivy, though I think such students’ chances of Ivy acceptances are higher than those of students who live their lives trying to force themselves into an Ivy mold.</p>
<p>What you did, however, is likely to have led to a happier, more fulfilled high school life than what students experience who shape their lives to impress Ivies. I also think that you’re more likely to have found hobbies and to have had experiences that will continue to make you happy and fulfilled.</p>
<p>I just find it bizarre that every single Ivy didn’t want me, especially considering my great record leading into April 1st (no rejections except for Stanford early action, which I guess could have been an indicator of things to come). It leads me to believe that the Ivies look for something completely different, something I apparently don’t have. I don’t know - I know I shouldn’t feel entitled, because there are tons of qualified applicants (more qualified than me), but I thought I had what it takes to get into ONE Ivy. Obviously, one college acceptance in no way indicates another acceptance, but it was surprising after receiving good news from so many great - not to mention arguably better - universities, and I’m still a bit bitter about it.</p>
<p>I also realize that I am now venting/ranting, so thanks for bearing with me. :)</p>
<p>Wow.
SkeletalLamping - my comments may be of little consolation to you, but as I was reading your initial post/letter, I kept thinking “Wow - that would make an awesome college essay!” – if the actual essay(s) you wrote were as well and as eloquently written as your posting here, you are FAR from “average” or inadequate in any way, shape, or form. You got your point across in a very poignant way in my humble opinion. In any case, I am sorry you didn’t get accepted where you wanted, but have you considered the possibility of trying out another perhaps “lesser” in your opinion school, but if not happy after a year, try to reapply or transfer next year? I haven’t checked, but surely there must be posts on this site regarding transfer students, yes? Good luck to you!</p>
<p>“The Shogun, no offense brah, but I think that you need to remember that without the terrific athletes, a college sort of becomes one-dimensional in only really academics. Also, you’re really competitive! That sort of attitude just won’t fly at top schools.”</p>
<p>None taken. There are tons of schools, however, that are top calibre and wouldn’t dream of admitting a kid just because he is a “terrific athlete”. To me, it makes no sense. Colleges are institutes of education. Why should someone else get a better shot at an illustrious career because of his athletic skills? Of course, I know the reason. I know the answer to my own question. I just don’t really understand it.</p>
<p>Also, I know I may sound competitive, but I assure you it has nothing to do with my attitude. Believe it or not, I’m generally quite a happy person. And I will be again once I move into my dorm in September and start to immerse myself in amazing classes and intellectual debate.</p>
<p>“He can dribble a ball across a court better than you and you can write the correct numbers on a test better than him. Which one does everyone want to see?”</p>
<p>I don’t know about you, but if I were hiring someone for a job in, say, engineering, why should I give a crap about how well he plays basketball, or the number of baskets he shot for his college team?</p>
<p>"Doing those things doesn’t mean you’re going to be accepted by an Ivy, though I think such students’ chances of Ivy acceptances are higher than those of students who live their lives trying to force themselves into an Ivy mold.</p>
<p>What you did, however, is likely to have led to a happier, more fulfilled high school life than what students experience who shape their lives to impress Ivies. I also think that you’re more likely to have found hobbies and to have had experiences that will continue to make you happy and fulfilled."</p>
<p>I didn’t do anything to force myself into an Ivy mold, except study as hard as I could to get the best grades that I could. I have hobbies that I enjoy, and I have friends that I treasure.</p>
<p>I regret it now. I should have taken up a sport I didn’t enjoy and ran for student council president even though I didn’t care for it. God knows most of my classmates did. Seems to have paid off for them. They’re happy; I’m not. For now, at least. And you would never have someone say, “I ran for student council president just to get into an Ivy, and now that I’m in Princeton, I regret it.”</p>
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<p>Trust me, there are people like that (one person from my school immediately comes to mind, and I don’t think he received a single rejection: accepted by Stanford, MIT, Harvard :P).</p>
<p>And even if people don’t all like their tough schedules, there are TONS of people who at least do ECs because they love them. I did.</p>
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<p>Great point. I definitely found music to be that for me (although apparently I ended up loving music TOO much…)</p>
<p>Shogun–good luck to you.</p>
<p>I wanted to just say that comparing your test scores to the time and practice and teamwork skills learned by an athlete is not relevent.</p>
<p>It is impossible to quantify, though adcoms do try, the value a real athletic leader, a team player, who is also an international student, will bring to a student body. The thing about these particular schools is that everyone they admit is academically qualified, and they cannot admit EVERY academically qualified student who applies. (I know you know this.)</p>
<p>One thing about most team players is that they really do learn how to be happy for the success of others, how to get up and try again and again, how to facillitate the best in the other player, even at the expense of their own stats (sports stats)…given the things I’ve heard the Ivy students say on these boards, I would definitely want some kids like that in the mix at a school, too. Plus, school spirit does, to some extent, as does civic spirit, depend on the “circuses,” as they knew so well in Rome.</p>
<p>You will do well. NO doubt about it. You will find a great place for yourself and I hope, going forward, you will live your life based on finding what you are passionate about and what it is you want to spend your time doing, as well. I can tell you that I have no clue as to where most of the people I know went to college, right now, and haven’t really known the answer to that question for over a decade. It really doesn’t carry very long…good luck to you.</p>
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<p>You applied to every single one? Why? That reeks of prestige-whoring.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s relevent to question the motivation of why the poster applied to all the Ivy’s…that’s a question they may never be able to answer, and some will answer, “because my parent’s made me.” Not all of this is up to the kid. fwiw.</p>
<p>Anyway, who cares? It’s over. Why rub it in?</p>
<p>I suppose there is an element of luck involved in admissions but I think it’s a small part of the overall process. I attend an average public school. Last year we didn’t have any kids go to the Ivies. This year we had three get admitted. One was a soccer player (white dude) who played on national teams and was recruited by several D1 schools. He has decent grades and test scores but nothing that would get him into an Ivy, but he was able to use his athletic skills to get into one. The other two were two girls (Asian chicks) with absolutely sick resumes. They both had huge GPAs, ~2300 SATs, ECs that include several state and national honors, summer jobs at research hospitals, and our AP English teachers said that each had essays that were absolutely brilliant. Everyone else in our school was rejected, but no one that I know of could match the soccer player’s athletic skills or the two girls intelligence. In fact everyone else was pretty much the same (2000-2100 SATs, ECs that were limited to school club stuff, good GPAs). </p>
<p>So in our school luck didn’t seem to play a role in the Ivy League process. The three best candidates made it, while everyone else was rejected. No one was admitted because they were a URM (all the AA and Hispanic kids were rejected) and nobody with good but not great scores beat the odds. Merit prevailed.</p>
<p>Personally I think most of the posts are not really helping the OP in any way. All of you are just trying to convince her Harvard, Ivies or whatever prestigious school is not the end of it all and then trying to tell her she is not all that “average” by telling her to do well and make use of whatever opportunity in a “lesser” school to justify her real potential by achieving success in the working world etc etc. Truth is most of us are just average, even those who go to Harvard (maybe make an exception for those real prodigies). If you are really intelligent, you wouldn’t be working so hard acing those SATs, APs etc, you wouldn’t force yourself to do things you wouldn’t want to do just to be qualified enough to apply. If you are really intelligent, you would be entering Harvard at 12. If you are really intelligent, you wouldn’t make entering Harvard the focal point of your education at whatever level. Most of us struggle to get into these prestigious schools to get a step ahead of everyone else, to have a better job, better life than the average. We are just striving to be above average. You cannot strive to be intelligent, and by this I say, real GENIUS. Even for those above average people who get into Harvard with their egos boosted the rest of their lives; their “intelligence” justified by everyone who knows they graced those privileged halls; they are still only role players, part of a hierarchy, a system we all cling on to so tight like a baby sucking on a pacifier.</p>
<p>If you were intelligent, posting on this forum consoling others who suffer the same fate as you and telling them to settle for less for the time being so that they can move on and achieve “success” later will not have crossed your mind at all. Save the Harvard success story for the next life (because it’s boring) and define your own world even if it means being “average” to others because you owe yourself an answer in the end, not to others.</p>
<p>Takedown, probably 998 out of every 1,000 students admitted to the Ivies would not shock any of us. They likely were outstanding in all ways and deserved to be admitted. The problem is that we’re obsessed with those other 2. </p>
<p>Our school is the same as yours pretty much. Those handful of students who are truly, truly amazing got into amazing schools. Pretty much the following scale worked for us:</p>
<p>If you had a 2250+ SAT, two or three SAT IIs above 750, top 5% in class, leadership at state or national levels, academic awards like NMS or AP with distinction, good job experience, and great essays and recommendations, then you were accepted to some Ivies along with some the best non-Ivies (Stanford, Pomona, Swarthmore, etc.). We had about five people in this category. </p>
<p>If you had a 2000 to 2150 SAT, two or three SAT IIs above 700, top 15% in class, leadership at regional or school levels, and very good essays and recommendations, then you were accepted to very good schools like UCLA, USC, Cal, Northwestern, UVA, or Michigan. We had about twenty people in this category. </p>
<p>If you had a 1900 to 2000 SAT, two or three SAT IIs above 600, top 25% in class, leadership at school levels, and good essays and recommendations, then you were accepted to good schools like UCI, UCSD, Occidental, ASU, or Pepperdine. We had about fifty people in this category. </p>
<p>If you had a 1600 to 1800 SAT, two or three SAT IIs above 500, membership in school clubs but little leadership, decent essays and recommendations, then you were accepted to decent local schools like Cal State Long Beach, CS Northridge, LaVerne, Whittier or unusual out of state schools like Hawaii, Utah, or Texas Christian. We had over a 300 kids in this category. </p>
<p>There were only one or two exceptions to the above in our school. Most were negative exceptions (ie a kid gets a 2100 but gets rejected by UCLA and USC). So far I know of no one who got with scores that were well below normal for that school.</p>
<p>evanlazlo, your definition of “intelligent” would result in about 10 intelligent people in the world. </p>
<p>Most people who go to Ivies have a combination of well above average intelligence and drive. If you have well above average intelligence but not drive, you won’t go to an Ivy. Likewise, if you have well above average drive but average intelligence, you won’t go to an Ivy. You need both. I agree with the person earlier who said that for most students getting into an Ivy is the result of a 4-year contest. They worked hard for four years and never let up. I would add that they were very bright, very determined for all four years as well, and they had the support of their families (who paid for prep classes, supported their EC stuff, etc.).</p>
<p>I don’t think the process is much of a mystery for most of us.</p>
<p>I will add that it takes lots of things to get in. If you get a 2400 on the SAT but write crappy essays, then you won’t make it. If you are Shakespeare but don’t take the SAT IIs seriously, then you won’t make it. If you’re Einstein but spend each day after school watching TV, then you won’t make it. Getting into an Ivy takes four years of focus and the skills needed to excel in about five or six different areas.</p>
<p>“If you are really intelligent, you wouldn’t be working so hard acing those SATs, APs etc, you wouldn’t force yourself to do things you wouldn’t want to do just to be qualified enough to apply. If you are really intelligent, you would be entering Harvard at 12. If you are really intelligent, you wouldn’t make entering Harvard the focal point of your education at whatever level.”</p>
<p>Huh? Probably most people who graduate from 4-year colleges have above average intelligence.</p>
<p>Probably most people who go to places like Ivies are intellectually gifted – about the top 2-5% of the population.</p>
<p>Neither group of people is intellectually average, though they may be average for the student bodies at your high school or for your group of friends. They aren’t average in terms of the general population. </p>
<p>Probably the type of people whom you are referring to are geniuses.</p>
<p>However, what difference does it make if one is an average person or not? It’s not as if people go through life with ratings on their foreheads. What matters is whether one is happy, has friends, is a productive, contributing member to society, is fulfilled in one’s life (something that doesn’t depend on intelligence).</p>
<p>I’d rather be a fulfilled, happy average person with friends than a bitter, friendless genius. I’m not suggesting that geniuses are bitter and friendless. I am saying that I’d rather be average and happy and fulfilled than brilliant and miserable.</p>