Chance a 15 year old senior?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Duke University
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<p>I am 15, finishing up my junior year this week (Yes, 15; I skipped 4th and 7th grade). I am hoping to apply ED to Duke.</p>

<p>GPA: 4.0 (unweighted) ; ?? (weighted)</p>

<p>Pre-9th Grade:</p>

<p>English I: A+
Physical Science: A+
Algebra I: A+
Algebra II: A+</p>

<p>Freshman: </p>

<p>Biology: A
Geometry: A+
Math Lab: A+
Pre-Calculus: A+
English II: A+
World History: A+</p>

<p>Sophomore:</p>

<p>English III: A+
US History I: A+
Environmental Science: A+
Spanish I: A+
SAT Prep: A+
Calculus: A+</p>

<p>Junior: </p>

<p>English IV: A+
College Math: A+
Spanish II: A+
Art History: A+
Chemistry: A+
US History II: A+</p>

<p>Senior(Scheduled):</p>

<p>Physics
Government/Economics
Spanish III
Journalism</p>

<p>These were the toughest available courses for my schedule; I go to a very small private school in SC of about 300 kids. I am #1 in my class.</p>

<p>SAT: 2100
CR: 620
MATH: 680
WRITING: 800</p>

<p>SAT Subject Tests: Have taken them, don't have scores yet.</p>

<p>National Merit Scholar Semifinalist after 208 PSAT Score (Only NMS at my school; one of two in my county)</p>

<p>Extra Curricular:</p>

<p>-120+ Community Service Hours volunteering for local youth sports league
-Varsity Football for two years
-School sportswriter for Junior Year- all sports
-Elected Student Body Treasurer for Junior year; running for Vice President Senior year
-Elected Editor of Student Newspaper for Senior year
-3rd place in state private school chess tournament; aiming for 1st next year.
-Varsity Golf for 1 year
-2 years summer golf league
-Summer internship at local newspaper (this summer)
-Summer job at Chick-fil-A (this summer)</p>

<p>I also have a bit of legacy. My grandfather's best friend/my close family friend is in the Duke Athletic Hall of Fame. Also, my cousin is the Senior Associate Director of Athletics for External Affairs at Duke.</p>

<p>I would hope that the legacy along with my age b/c of skipping grades would be a hook. (?)</p>

<p>I believe that is all.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>Correct me if I’m wrong, but a family friend and a cousin Blue Devil doth not a legacy make…</p>

<p>The currently senior associate director blah blah guy may confer some bragging rights as a somewhat high level employee of Duke (I’m assuming from the job title) but being as he (or maybe she?) is a cousin and not a member of the immediate family, there may not be anything there. </p>

<p>Also, age would not be a hook in this case unless it also comes with something extraordinary…like you cured cancer at the age of 11 and skipped ahead in school and is a child prodigy. If anything, age might actually hurt you somewhat as you might need to go the extra mile and demonstrate sufficient maturity for the freewheeling undergraduate environment.</p>

<p>As for your SATs, IMHO, they are a bit on the low side except for writing. Math, maybe not so much but definitely CR. You may want to retake and maybe focus on just one section for a higher superscore.</p>

<p>Your ECs are solid though, from what I’ve seen of the chance threads on this board in recent years, somewhat par for the course. The key there will be to show passion or coherency for your activities. Would help your case if they can be pieced together to show another aspect of your character or personality. </p>

<p>Which school are you applying for anyway? Trinity or Pratt? </p>

<p>On the subject of courses, while I know that you probably took the most challenging courses available. Why did you not take an AP test or two (or maybe you just didn’t list them). Your courses indicate calculus and college math which surely would have given enough preparation for Calc AB or maybe even BC. You would have gained some credits too if you went to Duke in the end. But other than math, from what I’ve seen it’s a run of mill HS curriculum. IMO (and I know you took the most difficult course load possible), the lack of higher level sciences is a con but I guess there was nothing you could’ve done for that really so it probably won’t count against you. </p>

<p>On a side note: SAT Prep is a real class???</p>

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<p>interesting situation… idk, but you should apply and see</p>

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<p>Thank you very much for your input! I forgot to say, yes, I am applying to Trinity. And yeah, unfortunately I must say my high school is not great so there were not many course options. And for some reason, my school ‘required’ SAT Prep. I must admit that I was much more naive during the 10th grade about my classes that I was taking, but as I said, my school is not great and may not have been able to fit my schedule. Also, I forgot to say that, if it makes a difference, that my last two years of math have been one-on-one study with a math teacher, as I have been taking the most advanced math in my school. </p>

<p>I have not taken the AP tests. Honestly I am not familiar with them or their purpose…</p>

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<p>AP Tests are standardized “college-level” exams in subjects ranging from English literature to European history to chemistry/physics/biology to calculus. They are a way for colleges to give credit for advanced college-level courses or materials learned during high school. While Trinity only gives 2 credits maximum towards graduation, it allows an unlimited (I believe) number to be used for placement into higher level courses. </p>

<p>The benefits to you would be you’d get either credit or placement for stuff you’ve already learned and so won’t be wasting time (or worse risking your GPA) to take the introductory classes in college. </p>

<p>Of course, for admissions people, it’s also a way to gauge how prepared you are for college-level work using a standardized test that is graded on a bell curve for all the takers of those tests.</p>

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<p>I graduated from Duke in '85 so things have changed a great deal. My next door neighbor in the dorm was 16 when she came to Duke and she had to make a case that she was mature enough and able to handle college work, especially coming from a crappy high school. She did this by taking community college classes the summer of junior year and for some of her hs senior year credits. Is this an option for you? What about online classes? Or, study for and take the AP classes that the other poster mentioned. Duke admissions will not know your tiny school and has no idea whether it will have prepared you for Duke curriculum (much tougher now than in the 80’s) and your SAT scores aren’t that high. You need to show you can handle college level work by going outside of your school and challenging yourself. Community college courses aren’t duke level but if you do very well in them and are comfortable with older students it is an indicator that you have the maturity to push yourself beyond the limitations of your hs. Some credits may transfer also. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>PS she graduated cum laude, worked for a while and went back to do an MBA at Fuqua and has had a successful career for more than 20 years</p>

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<p>I think your chances are decent, but the fact that you got an A+ in Calculus as a sophomore and an A+ in “college math” (what is that? MV Calculus?), while only getting a 680 in the SAT math makes me severely question the quality and rigor of your high school. You should not be getting 97%+ in an advanced calculus course and then getting several questions wrong on a test that only contains basic algebra and geometry. It just doesn’t make sense. Maybe this is a good thing, though, in that if you have had success with more advanced topics perhaps with a bit of studying you can bring up your scores. Some also find the Math IIC easier since while the material is more advanced, it’s more straightforward (not as much “logic”) and you can get a few questions wrong and still get an 800. While being young may not be a hook, it certainly makes your resume more impressive and your application will stand out in the eyes of the committee - so I think that’s a good thing. Your “legacy” status, however, won’t really help you unless you get those people to write you a glowing recommendation and then it might hold more water.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>Couple things:</p>

<p>-That is not a legacy, sorry.
-I too do not understand how one could get an A+ in college math, but a 680 on SAT Math, which is not known for being especially difficult.
-You are still an amazing applicant, anything can happen.</p>

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<p>Yeah, I left none blank and got four wrong, so I too was shocked by my SAT Math score.</p>

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<p>you can blame all them Asians for blowing that curve. For SAT math, anything more than 1 question wrong is like the kiss of death.</p>

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<p>^^just in case your young and impressionable, please be sure to take your advice from the posters who follow logic and reason-not from the ones who blame the world for their problems. If you have the opportunity take the SAT again or the Math Subject or AP to strengthen that score. </p>

<p>I also went to a crappy high school in rural community and both my brother and I were accepted into the ivy league. You can overcome this by going above and beyond what your school offers. It takes extra work on your part but it looks like you’re not afraid of extra work. Good luck.</p>

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<p>^^ Actually if you are young and impressionable and can’t distinguish sarcasm and humor from “logic and reason” then you probably should not be seeking advice on an internet forum. Nor should you read satire where lunatics promote eating babies and stuff like that. Nor, in fact, should you go to college, where you could be seriously misled. </p>

<p>On the other hand, “logic and reason” (and statistics!) should make it clear that it is true that the SAT math curve has been ridiculously skewed and a large part of that is because of those people (a large portion of whom are Asians) who score 800s. So in this case, blaming some external factor is not exactly unwarranted. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try again now that you know better.</p>

<p>PS: In case you didn’t pick up on the lack of hostility toward Asians, that’s because I am one also. I don’t hate other Asians. And no, I didn’t do poorly on the SAT math and are now working the jealousy angle.</p>

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<p>I find no humor in a person promoting a racial stereotype to a 15 y.o. kid who is seeking advice on how to look attractive to his dream school. If what was said is so reasonable then perhaps he should include your perspective in his college essays explaining his score (that is clear sarcasm, by the way, but just in case you aren’t able to pick up on it, please don’t put that in your essay). </p>

<p>Being Asian does not mean you aren’t capable of biases. Many races use them in discussing other people as well as each other. Knowing your ethnicity, which I obviously didn’t attempt to guess, is irrelavant when it comes to biases. Even you used the term “those” people. That’s fighting words in many communicaties so I find it facinating you’re ok with that. Maybe you’re just a really chill guy or girl. </p>

<p>Finally is the SAT scored on a curve? Isn’t your score your score? Unless you’re referring to where admitted students fall in a specific class, ie top 25%, middle 50%, etc. if he’s in the lower 25% it has nothing to do with the score being curved. It has to do with the competitiveness of that schools class, right? Or is the SAT score curved? I’ve just never heard that so I’m very interested in how that works.</p>

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<p>On the SAT math thing, I feel you, I’m in the same kind of math classes making the same grades as you and I made about the same score on my SAT math. My ACT math, though, was significantly higher, so idk if I just had a bad day with the math on the SAT or if something about the way they worded the problems threw me off or what… maybe the same with you?</p>

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<p>Edit: in reply to two posts above. </p>

<p>Wow…excuse me while I get my binoculars because I think there are some clouds obscuring my view of Your Highness…</p>

<p>I guess that Fresh Prince of Bel-Air Princeton interview isn’t so far off the mark then…do you frown on lil’ old me then? </p>

<p>So let me make something clear, my point is that the OP has valid reasons to say that his SAT math scores are not indicative of his math abilities because the grading is skewed. This is indicated in the collegeboard’s own statistical data showing that in the math section, Asians score higher on average than all other ethnicities and outscore Whites (the closest ethnicity) by 55 points (591 to 536). Additionally, the proportion of Asians who take the SAT out of all test takers (11%) is more than twice the proportion of Asians in the whole US population. In comparison, Asians as a whole scored an average of 519 on Verbal compared to 528 for Whites. </p>

<p>Sources: </p>

<p><a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/2010-total-group-profile-report-cbs.pdf[/url]”>Higher Education Professionals | College Board;

<p><a href=“Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia”>Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia;

<p>So yeah, a simple overview of statistics indicate that test scores are somewhat skewed by Asian test takers. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>1) Yes 2) Yes, sort of.</p>

<p>The SAT is first scored to give a raw score (+1 for correct, -0.25 for wrong). Then this is converted to a scaled score of between 200-800 which is what is reported. The scaling is most likely based on a modified bell curve taking into account all test takers on that same date as well as historical data from dates and test sessions that used the same questions. That’s how they account for intrinsic variations between different testing dates, years, cohorts, and different batches of questions. It’s the only way to make the SAT a valid tool for measuring applicants. </p>

<p>But, back to the points at hand.</p>

<p>I’ve never told the OP to try to justify his SAT scores, in fact, in my original post, I said his math scores may not be a problem at all. I specifically said to retake and focus on sections that need improvement such as CR. </p>

<p>Also </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>That was my original quote. By “those people…who score 800s” I am emphasizing that a particular subset of people can skew the results. I don’t see how absent any inflection (which is impossible on the internet anyway) you can somehow infer “them’s fightin’ words!” from my post. Just as you don’t care what race I am, I don’t care what “communicaties” you are from or happen to interact with or happen to be familiar with. </p>

<p>Finally, I never said being Asian means I’m not capable of biases even toward my ethnicity. I freely admit that I have less than stellar opinions of some of that race even though I was born and raised there. What I am saying is that it is less likely for me to be less knowledgeable or to make judgments without personal or factual experience, which is what prejudice is. I know firsthand the pressures that Asian parents and communities exert on Asian students and I know the insane amount of preparation that some Asians take or are compelled to take. If you’ve never seen your friends whip out USAMO problem sets from the 80s in their free time “for fun” you don’t know how crazy it can get. So yeah, I say SAT math scores are skewed, probably in some part due to Asians. </p>

<p>PS: Why yes, I consider myself to be a really chill guy. None of that PC bullshi!t around me…</p>

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<p>Well thank you all for the very helpful input! It really has helped.</p>

<p>Also, I just took the SAT Subject Tests yesterday, and I am anticipating a 730+ (hopefully above a 750) in Chemistry and Math II. Will this help my application more and also offset my SAT 1 Math score?</p>

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<p>To the OP:</p>

<p>I won’t add to what others have said here, but I wonder whether you’ve thought about a postgrad or gap year before starting college? Given your age, it could really work to your benefit. A postgrad year at a prep school could allow you to take rigorous AP classes and strengthen your SAT scores. A gap year doing other things could “round out” your overall application and allow you an extra year of pre-college “life experience.”
These are just thoughts to consider… Good luck to you in any case. You are obviously a very bright and capable student.</p>

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<p>Just raise the SAT score and emphasize your maturity and you’re golden.</p>