<p>Back in my grandfathers day all of his people were being pushed down (just as bad as AAs and Hispanics are today)…but MOST OF THEM BECAME SUCCESSFUL…WHATS THE URMs EXCUSE?</p>
<p>You are going on complete ancentodal information!! WELL MY GPA SAID AND THIS AND THAT HAPPENED, SO WHY CANT URM BE THE SAME? You’re comparing apples to oranges. </p>
<p>Based on statistics, African Americans and Hispanics are less likely to get a college degree, have lower gpas, sat scores etc. than there white and asian counterparts. Moreover, the predominantly Hispanic and African American neighborhoods do not provide the same opportunities as predominantly white neighborhoods. These are facts. Regardless if you think they should make there own way out of these situations, they obviously haven’t. Once again, this thread isn’t about AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, BUT RATHER A CHANCE THREAD.</p>
<p>But why do you need affirm action? Greeks were just as bad as you back then…yet most Greeks were successful…even today most are successful…Without the help of affirm action…and base this on statistics… Jews are more successful than any other white counterpart…yet they have been suppressed MUCH more than todays URMs…i mean were african american slaves killed in huge masses like the jews were?..the jews have been through every ounce of hell and they still managed to be at the top…Asians as well. Working the railroads way back then. They were practically enslaved. They were just as badly treated as enslaved African Americans. Yet look at them today. Look how far they have come without the help of “affirm action”. In fact affirm action works against them…yet they are most successful…ironic huh? …why do todays URMs need such “accessories” to get ahead in life, while every other group in America has gotten over of how badly America has treated them in the past…and every other group got out of their slump…why can’t AAs and hispanics do the same without having that crutch? this isn’t about Yale, I know for a fact I’m bright enough and well rounded enough for that school…regardless of it denying me…theres going to be another school equally prestigious that will accept me… and I don’t want to live my life knowing that i got into one of the worlds best schools because of my “diversity”…i want to get in based on how hard i worked…i’m just reliving what my ancestors have done…i had a very rough life growing up…but that never stopped me and that shouldn’t stop URMs…thats just an excuse…</p>
<p>First, I’d like to address the actual purpose of this thread. OP, I think most of your schools (specifically the Ivies) are still reaches. Despite your URM status, your stats are not on par with these schools’ standards (to be blunt). However, your experiences and story coupled with your E.C.'s might manage to pull you through.</p>
<p>Second,</p>
<p>andyboy23,</p>
<p>Her URM status doesn’t guarantee her acceptance into top colleges and certainly doesn’t disqualify her from working hard. I’m an Asian and I’m not complaining about college admissions…face it, you can’t do anything about the system. How about you just cope with it? All of your relatives dealt with it and became successful – why don’t you? Putting down URM’s isn’t going to boost your admissions. Get over it.</p>
<p>Thank you NLUU that’s what I was looking for. I know my test scores are not up to par, but is the rest of my application good?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, up to 80% of the Native American population was killed after whites introduced diseases such as smallpox (often intentionally) into the population while around 5-7% were murdered. So, that left a very small population. This much smaller population was then herded into Indian reservations, where surrounding whites intentionally kept the quality of living very low. A large population of Native Americans are still stuck in these reservations, with no financial means of getting out or succeeding financially. In addition to this, higher education is hardly ever encouraged there, as Native Americans are expected to take blue-collar jobs immediately after high school. The Native Americans who have been “integrated” into society are oftentimes ostracized and in some areas are discriminated against while in school, while trying to find a job, etc. You will never understand this, because you are white, nobody discriminates against you because of your skin color. You will, of course, vehemently deny this and say that AA is reverse discrimination. But, it’s not, it’s uplifting Native Americans, most of whom have NO support from their society and from their families. You, once again, won’t understand this, as your parents have coddled you from day one and have probably been very supportive of your college search.</p>
<p>Plus:
Greeks - less than 50 years of discrimination in America
Native Americans - more than 500 years of constant oppression</p>
<p>Thats a pretty broad assumption considering my father wants me to take over his construction business and my mom agrees with what ever my father wants of me. I also wasn’t talking about Native Americans. I was talking about African Americans and hispanics. Also, I understand. 500 years of constant oppression. I’ll bring up the Jews again. They’re situation is very similar to the Native American situation The Jews were enslaved by the ancient Egyptians for about 500 years. The Jews were slaughtered in the holocaust. Why do they constantly become successful? What keeps them fighting back and rising from the dirt? over and over again? - That is my question to you.</p>
<p>-A long and stable society (the order and structure of their society has been the same for thousands of years)
-Old money (they have money to start with)
-Unification (Native Americans are divided into hundreds of tribes)
-Governmental Power (they gained governmental power which Native Americans were strictly prevented from getting)
-Widespread encouragement to get educated (once again, Native Americans are discouraged from not only within but from prejudiced whites from getting educations)</p>
<p>Those, plus many other less major reasons, are the reasons for the disparity between Jewish society and Native American society.</p>
<p>Wow… andyboy you have no idea. It is true, people of color like myself have faced plenty more hardships than you probably ever will. I mean my parents didn’t even finish primary school! Do you think I grew up with the same opportunities as you did? And besides, Turkey and Greece both fall under European/Caucasian.</p>
<p>Jaddua-I understand. I will agree that Native Americans had it way tougher than African Americans and hispanics. </p>
<p>Joisonfire - Turkey isn’t in Europe…about 2% of Turkish land actually lies on Europe…my Father’s highest education is elementary school…my Mother’s is high school…but im just saying…there have been plenty other groups that faced other hardships and still overcame them…i grew up as an inner city kid most of my life…i grew up with mostly african americans and hispanics…i haven’t had parents to push me…basically just graduate high school and thats that</p>
<p>I just want to say, Black people were not even **“equal”<a href=“just%20a%20euphemism%20for%20a%20more%20deplorable%20status…”>/b</a> until about 45 years ago. That’s not even a blink of the eye. To act as if the remnants of more than 500 years of slavery and oppression are gone is absurd.</p>
<p>It’s not what happened in the past anymore. Every great empire had slaves to do the heavy work. Roman empire, ottoman empire, byzantine empire, the ancient Babylonians. That’s just how it is. My mothers side of the family (Greeks) were enslaved by the Ottomans (Present day Turks) for 400 years during the Ottoman empire. But thats all history now. And blacks were released from slavery in the mid 1800s.</p>
<p>Back to the topic…</p>
<p>URM status helps, Wowie. Would I say you’d get into your Ivies? IMO, probably not with a 28 ACT. You’d want to have at least a 30, but your others are most likely high matches or reaches. I cannot personally say because I am not familiar with those schools, but if you compare statistics to College Board’s, you should get the basic idea. HOWEVER! You are definitely set for Northeastern. </p>
<p>Also, if the debate persists, you can always request a moderator to close this thread and create another. Many users don’t understand certain threads are designated for specific purposes, and if they need to argue or to vent, to kindly do it in their rightful sections of College Confidential… This also means that it is probably best, for any user, to not bait others.</p>
<p>I wish you luck!</p>
<p>I think you’ve got a slim chance at those schools with the trend of low test scores relative to other applicants.</p>
<p>I’m just wondering … why did you apply to so many schools? That’s a sign that you’re not really interested in many of these colleges.</p>
<p>I’m not really sure. Everyone on this board seems to put so much emphasis on test scores. I understand they are important, but I don’t think colleges only look at test scores. Just look at Browns: [Brown</a> Admission: Facts & Figures](<a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University)</p>
<p>I was just wondering if people thought the rest of my application was solid minus my test scores. </p>
<p>How could you possibly know if I am interested in all the schools or not? My prospects on colleges is based on where I can afford. I am most likely going to choose the school that admits me and that will provide the most aid. If I can get an education without having to take out loans, I’d be more than happy to attend a college that isn’t necessarily perfect for me, but will save me thousands of dollars that my family doesn’t have.</p>
<p>The UC’s are affordable because they are in state. Hopefully, LMU and Northeastern will provide some scholarship money and the rest of my list meet 100% of needs.</p>
<p>I would be more worried about doing well at these schools once you get there; those test scores are kind of low. I really suggest that you self-study the summer before college for your introductory courses. People from my neighborhood get into top schools all the time and then find that inner-city public schools are near-worthless for college preparation. I know some people at UChicago/MIT/Yale/Harvard/Penn/Stanford who got in because they were minorities from Compton/ South LA and they figured out soon they were in over their heads. One of my brother’s smartest peers (Hispanic female, low income, comes from Compton, single parent) scored a 1510 (out of 1600, probably 2250 out of 2400) on her SAT and chose to go to Pomona over Caltech, Harvard, Princeton partly because she realized she was not prepared for the Ivy League after talking to some students that had matriculated to HYPS from her community. She did well at Pomona and earned her way to Harvard Med. These are the types of minorities you are competing with, people with passion and who know what they are going to do. From the size of that list, it looks like you don’t have an idea of where you want to go and are looking for prestige.</p>
<p>It isn’t going to be some cake-walk if you get in. Affirmative action only goes as far as the admissions process, you will be on your own in the classroom and these schools are damn hard. Your classmates will come from top boarding schools, privates, magnets from across the country and will probably be more prepared than you are now.</p>
<p>Let me clear up some misconceptions. Firstly because I am a minority and low-income does not by any means I am from an inner city public school. I have grown up in a fairly nice neighborhood, but recently with the economy, my father has been suffering financially over the past few years. We have been struggling with finances and I have been unable to afford many necessities for school. </p>
<p>Moreover, I go to a fairly competitive high school. Our school is known in the area for the amount AP we offer and our percentage pass rate. People from local public schools transfer to our schools because we are known for our many of our AP classes, such as Bio, which is about a 90% pass rate. We send a couple kids to ivy league every year and they usually are very successful. I have taken every course at my school that is considered “very hard” with exception to AP Chemistry. </p>
<p>I don’t feel my intellect needs to be proven. I am not a good test-taker simple as that. My good friend scored an 1850 on her SAT and she is doing wonderfully at Berkeley. I actually know plenty people who didn’t do well on there SAT, but are doing fine at Stanford, Berkeley, LA etc. Test scores by all means can not prove someone’s intellect.</p>
<p>I’m sorry to state although I’m a minority and low income does not mean I am from Compton and “am not prepared”. Majority of my classes are filled with very wealthy upper-class students who have chosen my high school over a private school. I would like to note despite my financial situation I am still around 32 or so in a class of about 654. Most of my friends have expensive tutors to help them through classes I persevered through on my own. They had college planners since there freshman year and had there parents (college graduates) helping them with there Calculus/ Physics/ Bio homework etc. </p>
<p>If anything, I am far more prepared than any of those students. I have been a leader of my own education. My parents didn’t have the time or money to baby me through high school. I earned my grades my self without tutors or my parents pushing me. My dad says “I study too much”. So yes, my low ACT/ SAT scores obviously mean I am “unprepared for college”. Don’t pay attention to the 5 in AP BIO earned as a Sophomore or the 5 in AP US History…</p>
<p>Wowie, I think you make some good points. But, it’s hard for me to take you seriously when you have so many grammatical errors in your posts. I understand this is an online forum where grammar is the least of your concerns (and flaming such as this is your greatest), but when there is a grammatical error in every other sentence - it’s hard for me to sympathize…</p>
<p>PS. This probably is just bothering me because I empathize with people who hate affirmative action. I bet you are qualified intellectually for these schools, but there are thousands of others who are as qualified as you if not more qualified who get rejected because they are not black/hispanic/native american.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s true. But test scores are the most objective measure we’re faced with.</p>
<p>Yes. I agree my grammar SUCKS. It is my biggest problem (To be honest, this is why most of my standardized test scores are so LOW). I received a 24 in English on my ACT, which brought me down a lot. I have been working on it with my current English teacher. I know the rules by heart, but ask me to apply them and ah that’s another story. I will undoubtedly say my peers have better grammar than I do. I think it is because I have always struggled with English class. I have improved my Reading Comprehension immensely, but I still fall short in grammar. I definitely will need to brush up before college.</p>
<p>And yes, I do understand there are people who are more qualified intellectually, but that does not mean I am not. There are many people who get rejected from ivy leagues with 2400 and 4.0 GPA, but obviously no one makes a case about that the asian with a 2200 and 3.8 GPA who gets admitted over the latter being less qualified. All anyone can pick on is that I am a “minority” and “have low test scores”. People make sweeping generalization that my course work must be less rigorous because I am low income? These statements make absolutely no sense. I would also like to add many students who are white with similar stats get into ivy leagues every year because they have another hook. </p>
<p>I would also like to add none of you can say for sure that my current stats without my minority background wouldn’t get me into an ivy league. I have much more to bring to the campus than I am willing to divulge on a forum board. I was simply asking my chances given the context of my application, not accounting for subjective material, such as essays, interviews etc. I don’t want to hear I can’t handle the coursework or my grammar is poor so therefore I am a less qualified than my white counterpart.</p>