First time posting here so sorry if there are any issues.
Demographics: Indian international (fully pay). Male, no hooks. Intended Major(s): Computer science / Computer Engineering
GPA, Rank, and Test Scores
Class Rank: My school doesn’t rank, but I’ve been valedictorian for two consecutive years (excluding 2020-21)
35 in the ACT
5s in AP Calculus BC, AP Macroeconomics, AP Microeconomics, and AP Computer Science A
Coursework
Grades 11 and 12: IB Math AA HL, Chemistry HL, Physics HL, Economics HL, English Language and Literature SL, Spanish B SL
Grades 9 and 10: Was the first student in the history of my school to 1. Take 10 IGCSE subjects (one extra) 2. Take IGCSE Additional Mathematics (which was the extract subject). Scored A*s in all 10 subjects in my board exams.
Awards
(National) One of five winners in my category in a government hackathon (1 of 50 winners from 3000+ submissions across all categories).
(International) One of ten international finalists at an international innovation challenge sponsored by a big-name company
(International) One of ten international finalists at a well-recognised problem-solving and critical thinking competition
(International) IGCSE Outstanding Learner Award for Mathematics for country topping International Mathematics
(School) Two-time valedictorian; two-time winner of school awards for my coding projects
Extracurriculars
Research project under the supervision of a T10 professor: Applied machine learning to a lesser-studied field of astrophysics. First paper ever to identify the link between a particular kind of machine learning technique and that area of astrophysics. Waiting to be notified if this has been accepted for an upcoming conference organised by HYPSM university. My supervisor has suggested submitting an expanded version of the research to a very well-known journal in early October, but I’ll only know if I’ve been accepted by mid-November at the earliest. (Grade 12)
Founder/Developer of a biodiversity app: Developed a platform to help communities track, manage, and share information about their biodiversity (intentionally keeping this vague). Collaborated with the largest biodiversity NGO in my city, with them now using it to track 10,000+ items across 80+ plantation efforts. In use by multiple residential communities with 4000+ residents to track 200+ plants and trees. This is what won the third award listed above. (Grades 10-12)
Paid SWE internship at a Wall Street AI market analysis firm. Developed 4 new tools that use ML to analyze 200k+ articles per day, revamped their existing filtering algorithm for articles, and developed/deployed new frontend and backend tools. (Grade 11)
Lead organizer of an inter-school tech competition. Brought the event back after 4 years, made it international for the first time, double the number of participating schools, doubled the number of events, ideated an original algorithmic trading event (the first of its kind that I know of at the high school level). A lot of the detail here should come in the counsellor LOR. (Grade 11)
Computer club president: Reformed the school’s voting system, ideated and implemented a week-long AI festival (lots of numbers here), mentored teams for competitions, set up the club’s first-ever website, conducted weekly sessions for 30+ members (Grades 11 and 12)
Lead organizer of an intra-school puzzle-solving competition inspired by MIT Mystery Hunt: Been a core member of the OC in grades 11 and 12, led the OC in grade 12 and doubled participation. Developer of the online platform for this event for all three years. (Grades 10-12)
Executive Editor of 8 departments at a prestigious student-run scientific journal: Rose from a junior CS editor, to senior math editor, to executive editor here. Oversee 35+ editors, part of journal leadership. (Grades 9-12)
Coding: deep learning research project where I developed a novel technique improved over existing state-of-the-art methods by >2%; another deep learning project with a domestic T5 professor which I started too late into 12th grade; description of some open-source projects I’ve worked on, plus some inter-school hackathons and competitive programming events that I’ve won.
Debate and MUN: Speaker awards at national-level competitions, team awards at 4+ competitions. (Grades 9-12)
Personal technology blog which I’ve been running 7th grade, where I’ve published 25+ high-quality deep dives into the tech industry. (Grades 9-12)
Additional information:
More details about my extracurriculars; particularly 1, 2, and 9
Detail about my IB Math Extended Essay: using university-level math topics to develop image comparison metrics tuned towards detecting plagiarism by AI diffusion models
Online courses: Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra from Imperial College London on Coursera; Computer Engineering course by the Hebrew University of Jerusalem; Particle Physics course by CERN scientists
Details of small community service projects I’ve done: math and CS volunteering at a local school, organizing a book collection drive
LORs
Counsellor LOR: 8/10. I’ve been a very active contributor to the school and I have a good relationship with my counsellor
Math LOR: 7-8/10. I’ve consistently been the top student in his class, and am doing my extended essay with him, but am definitely not one of the best students he’s ever seen.
Economics LOR: 8/10. I’ve consistently topped in her subject and she should hopefully have a lot of good things to say about my engagement with the subject in the class, as well as how I’ve applied economic concepts in many of my extracurriculars.
Research supervisor LOR: 9-9.5/10. He’s had really good things to say about me and I think he’s been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the work I’ve done.
Schools
ED: Still trying to decide between Carnegie Mellon SCS and CS at Cornell Engineering. I would appreciate any suggestions that you might have on this issue.
Almost all my US schools are reaches, so I’m roughly listing them in order of my preference. I’ve got some safeties in the UK and within India.
[Whichever one of Cornell and CMU that I do not ED to]
Stanford
UC Berkeley, LA, SD, and Irvine
Georgia Tech
Princeton
Columbia
Caltech
Harvey Mudd
UIUC
UPenn
Duke
University of Washington Seattle
UMich
USC
Johns Hopkins
Purdue
Rice
UMass Amherst
UVA
UNC Chapel Hill
In addition to overall chances, I would really appreciate any thoughts on:
In general, where you think I stand amongst CS applicants: I don’t have any Olympiads or science fair awards, and I’m not sure to what extent that tanks my application in some of my reachier reaches.
Which of CMU and Cornell I have a better shot at: I’m equally happy with both of them, so at this point, it’s just a question of guessing one would be best to spend my ED on. I’m open to considering Stanford, but I don’t think my application is good enough for it, at least in the REA round.
I think you have a better shot at Cornell because you have the type of competitive but balanced profile they like whereas CMU likes "spikes"more, so if you’re full pay and your parents are onboard, I’d apply ED there.
Stanford, Princeton, Columbia (COE I assume?), Duke, UWash Seattle, UIUC, UCB, UCLA are pretty unpredictable due to the minuscule acceptance rates. Perhaps choose your top 3-4.
Georgia Tech sounds like a good fit and youre definitely competitive there.
UMichigan has a very different culture but same as GATech.
Why UCI? (You could choose one from UCSD and UCSB, and one from UCSC, Cal poly SLO, and UCD).
HarveyMudd is an outlier but I commend you for thinking outside the box, especially for an Indian student. It’s QUITE different from CalTech - both expect intellectual powerhouses but one is specialized and the other broader. Perhaps pick the best fit for you?
What about Tufts, UMD, WPI, Illinois Institute of Tech, Penn State, UWisconsin? All strong universities where your odds are better than at the last 5 on your list and perhaps better for you?
First of all, thank you for the in-depth response!
The list is indeed quite long, so I will probably have to do some trimming. That said, I am quite reach-heavy, because my parents and I have decided that it’s not worth spending so much on international student fees for universities that are not dramatically better than domestic options, or even some places in the UK that should hopefully admit me on the basis of academics.
On Cornell vs CMU, what you said does square with the profiles I’ve seen, and I think that implies I’d probably be a better fit culturally at Cornell - so I’ll probably take my chances there. Thanks for that!
For the reasons mentioned above, if I have the time, I’ll probably fill out the applications for the probably unrealistic reaches that you listed–just in case any of them do decide to accept me.
On the UCs, my sister is at Berkeley, so I made the UC list broadly based on her advice. I’m open to adding SB and Davis to the list.
I have no idea if I want to go to Caltech, because of the culture that I’ve heard about–but I figure that if it is my best option, at minimum, I’ll have an incredible brand name on my CV, the ability to skip straight to PhD if I want one (something that I’ve heard many Caltech students do), and I think I might just be nerdy enough to have a good time there.
I’ll definitely look into the last few places that you listed! I haven’t really done much research on UNC NC and UVA, so I’d be particularly open to replacing those with any of the options you mentioned.
If you’re not sure you want to be at Caltech, it’s probably not a good fit. It’s a great school of course, but it’s not for everybody. Research it well if you really want to consider it. You have plenty of other good options on your list.
Rice seems to be the odd one on your list. It’s not particularly well known for CS. What do you like about it?
I agree with @MYOS1634’s comments and recommendations.
You can think of it that way: you need at least 2 face-saving options + it’s devastating psychologically to be rejected everywhere.
With Ucas you always have a safer option and the factors aren’t unpredictable so you can be sure to have at least one option you like there -you’ll hear back in quick succession and you’ll have a maximum of 4 rejections.
The US system is more devastating: the impact of university after university after university randomly dripping bad news day after day from December to March is just horrible and could ruin your Winter/Spring, so you want to make sure you have at least ONE sure thing you like (even if ultimately you end up in the UK).
I suppose your sister suggested UCI bc many UCB students see it as a comfortably-majority-Asian safety. Although its acceptance rate has droppzd precipitously recently
Congratulations on your very strong record! With the combination of your terrific qualifications, and being full pay (since most schools on your list are need-aware for international applicants - I believe Princeton is the only one on your list that is need-blind for international students), you’re in a very good position. The limiting factor is the relatively small number of spots for international applicants vs. domestic ones, which makes the odds longer. But it sounds like you’ll have very good options in the UK and India even in the worst case where US schools don’t work out.
You could consider a few of the still-excellent schools that court full-pay international applicants in order to make their domestic full-need-met financial aid possible - U of Rochester (24% international) and Northeastern (14% international) are the two that come to mind. UCSD, with over 20% international undergrads, is already in this category, and IMHO these three schools are all comparable in reputation in the US… but that may or may not translate to how they’re perceived in other parts of the world. (FWIW, I predict that you’ll get into UCSD, but with the caveat that it’s possible to get into the university but not into your desired major.) Even though URoch and Northeastern have fairly low acceptance rates, I’d be very surprised if you didn’t get in as a full-pay international student with top-notch qualifications. And both are excellent STEM schools with good flexibility to move between programs. (Northeastern also has a combined CompE+CS major if that’s of interest).
Anyway, to follow up on MYOS’ advice that Cornell could be the better ED choice, I’ll add that CMU has ED2 (whereas Cornell does not), so you could still apply ED2 to CMU if Cornell ED1 doesn’t work out.
OTOH, are you certain that you’d prefer to pay over 80K/year for these schools, over top-tier publics like GT and Purdue, which would be quite a bit less expensive without sacrificing much in terms of reputation? You don’t have to submit a binding application anywhere. You might end up getting some nice merit scholarships that you might want to be free to consider.
What does “skip straight to PhD” mean? You would skip straight to PhD (assuming you were still interested; assuming your undergrad passions don’t change) regardless of where you do your Bachelor’s.
That’s definitely true – I’ll read about a little more about Caltech. I’ve heard all sorts of things from Caltech alumni–some love it, some say that it’s irrevocably damaged their social lives. One big draw for me is the location + the high chance of getting research opportunities in the summer, which, I’ve heard is challening at many of the larger universities I’ve listed here.
The main reason that Rice is on the list is that, for whatever reason, they’ve consistently admitted students from my school over the past few years, more so than most other US universities people here apply to. I will probably have to do a little more research, to see if it’s worth applying there, since you are right in saying that it’s not the most reputed institution for CS.
Who have you heard this from??? There is not a single U on your list where getting summer research opportunities- assuming you are qualified for the position you are interested in- is challenging.
To clarify, this was based on something I heard a parent of a Caltech alum say–they were largely disparaging the extremely techical and rigorous nature of the curriculum, but said that it does prepare you better for a PhD than most instititutions.
The (admiteddly few) people I’ve seen online who’ve gone on to do PhDs in CS after graduating from places like Berkeley, Cornell, and CMU seem to be disproprtionaly likely to have acquired Master’s degrees first. Perhaps this is just a result of me not having a large enough sample size, I’ll do a little more research on this front.
This is largely based on my sister’s experience at Berkeley, where she’s had to go through more than half a dozen rounds of interviews while applying for positions at overcrowded research labs. I think this is more of a problem at large publics. It is possible that our status as international passport holders might be a factor here.
Just because someone has a Masters does NOT mean that they didn’t go directly to a doctorate. At some universities, you’ll get a Masters after two years of your doctoral work at which point you’ll pivot to heavy-duty dissertation and either research or teaching to justify the financial support you are getting from the university.
That doesn’t mean that people who graduate from Berkeley need to do “remedial” Master’s work to enter a PhD program.
And yes- not having a US passport (and being unable to get security clearances as a foreign national) is definitely going to make landing a research spot more difficult.
And half a dozen rounds of interviews is not terribly onerous… the PI wants researchers who are excited by the project and can contribute. The student wants to be somewhere which will advance their learning. You can’t establish that in a fifteen minute zoom.
But a student visa-- and no security clearance- that makes it hard for sure. And going to Caltech won’t make those two issues easier. Labs at and near Caltech do a LOT of defense and national security work in CS…
I will definitely consider Rochester and Northeastern! I’ve heard that demonstrated interest is a relatively important factor for Northeastern, which I’ve engaged in close to zero of, so that might work against me, but I’ll look into it regardless.
I’ve considered applying for a non-CS/CE major, however, the problem is that my profile is so CS-heavy that it’d be extremely obvious to universities that I’d be aiming to switch majors.
ED2 at CMU is definitely a good idea! Not sure why I didn’t think of that.
Your last point is definitely valid. The problem is that I’m not sure if my profile is good enough for a place like Cornell or CMU or Georgia Tech without something like the ED boost - so do I really want to forego my most realistic chance at landing a place I’d be really happy to go to for possibility that I get into one of the lower-cost options you mentioned?
However, I have considered REAing somewhere, to try to take advantage of some kind of early round boost. My options would be Caltech, Stanford, Princeton, and maybe MIT (which I’m aware is extremely unrealistic for me). Not sure if I’m a great fit for any of these places, but it might be worth a shot if I’d prefer to wait for some of the cheaper schools / places like UC Berkeley which might be better than some of my ED candidates in certain ways (particularly location).
Oh, that’s interesting to hear. In that case, there are probably fewer reasons to really invest in applying to Caltech than I had initially assumed.
Here’s a hypothetical question: would you say that I might have a better chance of getting into one of Caltech and CMU if I REA to Caltech and RD to CMU and Cornell; as opposed to EDing CMU/Cornell and RDing the other + Caltech?
As much as I’m unsure of Caltech, it is one of the few REA schools on my list (along with Princeton and Stanford, but I don’t think I’m good enough for them in the REA round, especially as a non-legacy), which poses some significant advantages by allowing me to wait for the few schools which I might like slightly more than Cornell/CMU (Berkeley, Cambridge, Georgia Tech, etc.)
Take your best shot with ED or REA at the one place you’d regret not trying. Then develop a rational list of sure-bets, likely schools and a few reaches-- once you’ve established that they are affordable, and that students with your profile typically (or at least often) get accepted.
The notion that you’re trying to get in early to a school where you don’t know if the culture or fit is right for you, just because they have REA and you don’t think you can get in regular decision-- this seems like a waste of energy.
Oh, I wasn’t suggesting that you apply outside of your preferred majors! By mentioning flexibility, I just meant that it’s nice to have flexibility once you’re there, in case you want to switch between CS and CE, or in case a different interest emerges. The combined CS+CE major at Northeastern could also be interesting. Computer Engineering and Computer Science, BSCmpE < Northeastern University
Most of the REA schools don’t really advantage early applicants - the early cycle just gives you the opportunity to get a decision earlier. Definitely do apply EA everywhere that you can - some schools fill most of the spots in popular programs in the early round. (Which reminds me, U of Maryland could be another excellent option, but they’re definitely an example of a school that fills up its CS major early.) And others (like USC) have early merit deadlines.
I certainly wouldn’t underestimate Rice’s reputation in CS and engineering, and the student quality of life there is fantastic. (My daughter went there, but not for engineering/CS)
Rochester really likes students to interview, and they’re also unusual in giving the option of a family recommendation. (When my daughter applied, I initially thought this seemed silly, but they prompted me to submit one so I did; hopefully it was helpful - she did get a pretty decent merit offer, although she didn’t end up going there.) They’re also very interested in which activities you hope to pursue on campus, and they write nice, personalized acceptance letters that mention what they appreciated about your application.
I wouldn’t worry about the EC boxes you haven’t checked (science fairs, etc.) - no one person can do everything, and that’s not expected - you have done plenty! Good luck!
You can also look at faculty: student ratio - you’ll get more help securing positions and going through the process if the ratio is 1:12 than if it is 1:21…
You can ask each International student office what specific help they provide wrt Summer research positions, especially at non campus labs. (Some may offer none - one reason @Andygp liked Kalamazoo and Wooster is that they provided specific support. Not recommending you apply there bc clearly that’s not the environment you want but example provided so you think of other criteria for your search.
You may also want to ask about specific help wrt OPT.)
You also look at Honors Colleges - Honors college students have better advising and support for all these endeavors.
Read the Fiske guide to see if you’d like CalTech’s vibe. It’s very different from most colleges, almost like grad school - and in that case look into CCS at UCSB. That being said most internationals can find that vibe at a top university at home - those who want to attend a US school typically want work-life balance, campus life, etc.
Rice is a superb university and CS is very strong there too, in addition to excellent quality of life. Thzt being said, I stand by my recommendation you apply ED to Cornell where you stand a decent chance, rather than try& game the system. (Cornell or another university similar to it.)
If this year’s results are anything to go by then UCSD, UIUC, Purdue etc. should be safeties for you, especially since you are full-pay most state Universities will love you
