Not sure if it’s OK to add other schools in this, but UVM is my daughter’s first choice by a long shot.
Demographics
US Citizen
CA State resident
Very competitive, rigorous, public HS, high achieving, high percentage college bound
White Female
Intended Major(s)
Secondary education
Unweighted HS GPA: 4.0
Weighted HS GPA 4.1
Class Rank: HS doesn’t rank
ACT/SAT Scores: None
APs: AP Bio, AP Psych, AP Econ
*Took Early Childhood Education course at Community College
Coursework
3 yrs Foreign Language
4 years Math: Algebra 1 and 2, Geometry/Trig, pre-Calc/Analysis
4 years Science: Biology, Chem, AP Bio, Physics
4 years English
4 years History/
Social Science (AP Psych, Childhood Dev at Comm College - school doesn’t offer other social sciences)
Jr year volunteered as middle school tutor in program for students from underrepresented communities. Returning again this year.
Full time summer job as summer camp counselor for outdoor summer camp. Led 2-3rd grade boys & girls groups and activities.
No test scores - not taking ACT or SAT
Letters of Rec from AP Bio, Alg 2/Trig, and counselor
Financial aid - n/a
What do you think? Especially for UVM. 6 months ago they were listed as 70+% acceptance and were considered a safety. Now they are listed as 55-65%, which I assume is more of a target. Her high school is so competitive that now she’s concerned about whether her numbers might actually get her in.
Going into Education typically you want to chose the college in the state you ultimately want to teach as that’s where you will do your student teaching, where you will do your certification etc. Regardless I would suggest you look at a few things for each school to find the best fit.
What grades to you get certified to teach. Unfortunately there is no common split. In NY Primary is 1-6 and secondary is 7-12. PA is PK- 4
Find out the state teaching exam passing rate and number of students for each school.
Ask the schools if they support students looking to get certified in other states.
Compare curriculums, how soon to you start taking EDUC courses, how soon are students in a classroom…
I would think, UVM would be close to a sure thing.
I assume the rigor isn’t high - just one AP - based on the weighted?
You say you have rigor - so i’m missing the connection between the two GPAs. What is the scale?
I’d say likely to UVM - but their average is a 3.8 and you have no test score. The rigor would be my concern - if you don’t have any it seems to me- but I’d still say likely and I think you’ll come back and say you do based on your comments on the school.
Look at your others - WWU - yes.
Wesleyan - no - based on my perceived rigor.
Maryland - No - based on my perceived rigor.
Penn State - ehhh - it’s the rigor that hurts. Delaware not sure and CU a yes but Colorado State seems more appropriate given you like UVM and WWU.
If you have “rigor” then yes to PSU and UD.
With teaching, where does she want to end up? You should check state licensing? Why spend so much to be a teacher - why not a Chico for example??
Seems like many of the schools don’t match UVM / WWU in vibe - is what I’m trying to say. I guess I’m thinking more like Evergreen State.
Is your D applying ED to UVM (which is new this year)? That would be the way to maximize her chances. UVM class of 2026 acceptance rate was around 59%, as they received a large increase in apps.
I know you her HS doesn’t rank, but I assume she knows where she does fall relative to the rest of the class…is she top 10%? 25%? 50%? Does her HS use Naviance? If so, what does that show?
My D22 (also a CA girl) had stats very similar to your daughter’s and was offered admission to UVM with a decent merit scholarship. One of her friends also was accepted there, but a couple of others with similar stats were not. Of course, we’ll never know why. Ultimately my D chose a different university saying that Vermont was just too hard to get to from California.
This an excerpt that indicates the school is focused on geographic diversity.
“Many highly sought-after attributes are represented in those who have chosen UVM this year:
50% of students will come from outside of New England. To address demographic shifts, the university has worked to diversify its applicant pool by increasing applications from outside its traditional admissions territory.
46 states will be represented.”
I would imagine the pool of applicants gets thinner as you get farther away. Consequently,I suspect your daughter will be competing against a smaller pool of applicants. Between her achievements (which you should be proud of), a smaller cohort pool, and her checking a “sought after attribute” box I think her odds are much better than the aggregate acceptance rate as published.
To further consider her I looked at UVMd historic yield data below:
At 18% that means to ensure an individual state representation (which they clearly care about) they need to accept approx 5 students to likely land one. Considering all of the above I would view it as a safety.
Maybe I defined rigor in my own head differently than it is defined here? Her high school is ranked the #1 top public high school in California, so the rigor in all of the classes is very high. A 4.0 there is not easy to come by. Her APs are Bio, Econ, and Psych. (She’s taking Econ and Psych this year because they are only offered to Seniors.) We live in Silicon Valley and at her school the APs offered are overwhelmingly science and engineering oriented. Since she wasn’t looking to focus there, there weren’t many other opportunities. That’s why she took a class at community college.
She’s grown up in Silicon Valley (CA) and she wants to get out of here! She wants to be in an environment where every moment isn’t obsessively focused around being rich and famous. Her high school is hyper-competitive, where so many students’ goal is to be the next Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs. Or even if not like them, then the specific goal of so many kids (and adults!) here is how to get rich. For students, that means life centers around doing whatever it takes to get the highest gpa, highest test scores, acceptance into the most exclusive colleges, highest paying jobs, and the salary that affords the lifestyle that comes with where we live. She just wants to go to a school where people are more down to earth. Where there is more going on than taking 15 APs and taking classes over the summer through private tutoring so you can take them during the year and get As to boost your weighted grades.
She would like to be at a mid sized school (10-15K if ideal), in a place with actual weather (she’s tired of the drought and the same weather every day of the year). Her high school is 2500 and she doesn’t want anything that small.
Evergreen is going too far in almost every direction. We have friends who went there and know a bit about the culture of the school and while she wants a more-chill vibe than where we live, she’s not interested in Evergreen chill.
She doesn’t know where she wants to end up after graduating, so narrowing the list based on that isn’t possible at this point. She only knows she doesn’t want to be in California. Oh one other limiter, she is self-limiting schools to states (outside of CA) that aren’t taking away the rights of women, so you’ll see that reflected in the locations she selected.
She really does sound similar to my daughter. We are also in the Bay Area but at a Title 1 school. My daughter chose DePaul in Chicago where it came in a few thousand dollars/year cheaper than UVM after merit, there are all four seasons (we visited in winter), kids are down to earth, and the school, despite being Catholic (we are not) is very liberal. She’s been there exactly one week and so far is having a great time!
I think she will have no problem getting in to UVM- my son’s stats were similar and his college advisor told him it would be a safety- he applied early action and got a nice merit scholarship. Ended up deciding to go there over his other reachier (and pricier) schools because he loved it on his visit- has been extremely happy with his decision.
She’s applying EA to every school that offers it. She’s on track to have all of her apps in by end of Sept.
I’m pretty adept at Naviance (or thought I was). While I can see her GPA I don’t see anything that resembles a ranking. Her class size is 481. According to the school profile from last year, 252 students had a gpa between 3.7-4.0, (unweighted). Hers is 4.0. Data on gpa spread is below.
Class of 2022 (6 semesters) (size: 481)
Number of students
3.76 - 4.00 252
3.51 – 3.75 99
3.01 – 3.50 82
2.51 – 3.00 35
2.50 and below 12
I would define rigor as - did she take the most competitive or somewhat competitive school offerings and she hasn’t.
It doesn’t mean she won’t get into UVM - as I said, I think it’s likely and others were more emphatic that it’s a yes, with merit.
As for the rights of women - that’s a tough one. I’m not an expert in the area and I know we “assume” certain states will always have that right - but right now, the only one I can think of that has that “assured” is Kansas - I know, you don’t think Kansas when you think blue - but the citizenry voted it as a right a few weeks back. Obviously you’ve hit on the right other states. I hear good things about KU - should you look? I don’t know.
You’re probably fine with UVM period - and then WWU as the back up. And whatever else you wanted - although likely not needed. Maybe U of Oregon??
Good luck to your daughter - she’ll be fine.
PS - I don’t understand Wesleyan at all when looking at the list - and she’s highly unlikely due to the lack of rigor. Just doesn’t fit. But if you were going the LAC route I might look at Connecticut College (as a reach) , and Beloit, Lewis & Clark, and Puget Sound as far more likely. All have education majors.
Maybe i am missing something. Lots of colleges in blue states would work. Maybe cost can help narrow down the choices? or a preference for liberal arts colleges?
why UW in a tech city, which is similar to silicon valley but NO to CP-SLO?
Good questions. She has a 529 that will cover her so that is not a driving issue. Size is really a big guide, though she’s certainly gone bigger than she prefers in some cases. UW is surprising but I think there are two draws. One is their college of education. Second is that when we toured the tour guide spoke very candidly about some learning differences she’s had and how well the school has supported her. My daughter has a little known chronic illness, which is poorly understood even in the medical community. Sometimes she requires medical care and school accommodations. Sometimes she doesn’t. She appreciated knowing UW was so open to helping students. (and Seattle has some specialists that she could see.) **Mind you, as a parent I know there are many wonderful schools that support students well. Remember, these are not my interests, priorities, or limitations. They are my daughters. We are in this process with her and are helping navigate the scene but the path she chooses will be her own. Which all means, I’m pretty sure UW won’t land in the top choices but it’s on her list.
Re liberal arts, we thought she would tend towards them but I think the small size is part of the problem there. She seems to have liked the mid-sized state schools better. (I would love SLO but she wants to get out of CA.)
Agree with Wesleyan and we’ve been a little surprised it’s on her list. She knows it’s doubtful but wants to try. L&C and PS were both too small for her taste, and yes, I know Wesleyan is small. It doesn’t all make sense I’ll take a look at CC and Beloit.
I think your daughter and my daughter would be great friends! She is also applying to UVM and several other schools on your list. And wants the same things!
Well if the others are too small so will the ones be I mentioned. OK - makes sense - got her fancy (the LAC). And btw - I wanted my kids to get turned down somewhere and both did - so it is good to stretch.
They used to say my HS (in San Diego County) was #1 in state I think a lot of schools claim that. I do I think colleges expect you to take the hardest schedules so avoiding APs puts the Wesleyans of the world out of reach. The TO, with lack of rigor, won’t help in my opinion although Wes has a huge TO percentage.
UW is gonna be tight - but the major may be of help - not as competitive. But the rigor thing will hurt and OOS is a bit tougher (although certainly not impossible).
But it’s ok - good to be rejected in that you know you reached high enough - that’s my belief.
The biggest LACs population wise are:
Richmond - reach and probably not the right state
Bucknell - you had Penn State but it will be rich kids vs. overly diverse. Also a reach.
Colgate - reach
St. Olaf - in same town as Carleton, similar size to Wes, some diversity, and likely a target - so maybe sub that school in for the other LACs I mentioned - as a complement to Wesleyan (a 2nd LAC) - just a thought - it’s in MN so likely ok there with reproductive rights.
I’ll just mention Oregon again…it seems like a fit. Eugene is cool and the college isn’t huge as far as publics go.
Was going to say the same thing! My daughter is also applying to UVM. I’m a little worried how things will go this year since it is the 1st time they are offering Early Decision. Not sure how that will shake out.
CA is a pretty diverse state in terms of geography and weather. Seemed like getting out of silicon valley is not the same as getting out of CA. But i get your point that she wants out of the state.
I’ll take a look at CC and Beloit.
I think a lot of schools claim that. I do I think colleges expect you to take the hardest schedules so avoiding APs puts the Wesleyans of the world out of reach. The TO, with lack of rigor, won’t help in my opinion although Wes has a huge TO percentage.