Chance me for the Top-20 Math/Applied_Math/CS Colleges

Chance Me / Match Me!
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Hi
Current Junior (for next couple weeks at least - then I am a rising senior). Am aspiring to continue my interests in STEM fields - specifically: Math/Applied Math/CS (also interested in Physics/EE). While preparing my college list, I initially concentrated on safeties and I do have couple safeties in mind (based on my grades and based on one of parents employment status - am almost guaranteed admission in one of them). Now I am moving onto targets/reaches - I always dreamed about getting into colleges like MIT but aware that they are difficult to get into. Now I am trying to evaluate my true chances into some of these dream schools.

SAT I - single sitting: 1580 (780 English, 800 Math; essay 7-6-7)
ACT: n/a didn’t take
SAT II: 800 (Math II), 800 (Math I), 800 (Physics), 780 (Chem)
School info for any CB adversity index guesses: school is a large public which has high % of students that qualify for free/reduced price lunch and avg SAT scores are at national average and less than state avg. median household income in the school district is at national median. Personally I don’t have any adversity.

GPA: 4.88 W (out of max possible 5.1) - school only reports W in the official transcript.
Rank: top 5% (~15 out of 450 as of now).

UW and W GPA calculated using generic and CA specific calculators out there:
3.8/4.0 UW generic OR 3.83/4.0 in UW California method
4.37 W in CA Weighted Capped
4.66 W in CA Weighted Uncapped

Course load: most rigorous.
AP’s: I would have completed 14 AP courses and 2 additional self-studied tests by end of high school. AP scores are mostly 5s with one 4.(AP’s completed include: world history, us gov, micro economics, English lang, calculus AB, calculus BC, Stats, Physics1, Physics2, PhysicsC-both, Chem).

Senior Course load: AP Macro, Multivariable Calculus, AP Literature, AP Computer Sci, AP Bio, US History.

Awards / Honors: nothing at national level or anything that pops - but have the following
AIME Qualifier (2x)
National AP Scholar
Several state level Math competition wins - including first place (state level HS math competition - placed among top 3 every year); several state science olympiad medals (medalled in at least 2 events every year at state level competition). Top 3 at a national team math meet competition (not giving the name of competition for privacy but its similar to HMMT). State science fair subject win in Math/CS subject. JSHS regional science fair oral presenter. Several state level chess awards. Won at a state hackathon. Won a service award for my volunteering. Some school level including honor society memberships and honor rolls etc.

EC’s (all following are pursued for full 3 years):
Varsity Tennis (top 4 team in the state; am currently ranked 3rd in the school team; participated in club tennis and outside school tournaments - not a recruitable player but do get good reviews)
President of Math Club
Vice President of Science Club
Member of Engineering Club
Volunteer at for 3 years with 250+ hours
Assistant coach for MATHCOUNTS team (3 years running)with 120+ hours
Travelling around with state math team
Technology Students Association

Summer Programs:
Participated in at least one Math or CS summer program every summer for the last three summers. The programs are not in the league of RSI/TASP but competitive - admit rates are around 15%. Not giving the names for privacy but the math program am attending this summer is well known (similar to Ross/HCSSiM). Also, doing research with a Math professor at a well known top-20 university (its one of the University I am asking for chance). Hoping to publish this work before the app deadlines but not sure. Have one completed research project which resulted in the science fair win at the state level - I am in the process of updating this work and send for publish before the app deadlines.

Recs: don’t know yet but I will get one strong rec from math teacher and also faculty advisor of the club that I lead. One from a humanities teacher should be good as well - did well in the class and have her again next year and she gave me rec for the summer program that I got selected. GC does not know me well - this maybe average.

Demographics:
Race/Gender: Asian boy (I know its a tough demographic for STEM field but that is my interest/passion and I will go where I am accepted).
State: Northeast (again tough geography demographic)

Please chance me for computer science at: MIT (dream school), Stanford, UC Berkeley, CarnegieMellon (SCS), Cornell, Columbia, Dartmouth, Hopkins, Purdue, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UIUC, Rice, Tufts, Northeast, WPI, Univ of Rochester and UMass.

Note: I am preparing myself to apply to ~14 colleges apart from my 2 safeties - please advice on what colleges from above the list are reasonable for me. Any other colleges that I should look into?

PPS: I thought of cost and discussed it with parents - am fortunate to have parents who are backing me to go any of these colleges. still would like to reduce the costs but for the sake of this thread please ignore the cost factor (trust me I am aware that is most important factor but dealing it separately - this thread is to fine tune my targets/reaches purely based on their strength in the majors that I am interested in and chances of me getting into them).

Thanks for reading the long post.

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Your data puts you in the mix at any of these universities. The “chance” game is problematic at any competitive CS program today. As you may already know, CMU may be the most competitive for admission in this field, but you can do the work anywhere and any of the Universities you have listed are well equipped to meet your academic needs.

The major question which is ignored in the “chance” discussion centers around your interest/fit in the university program beyond test scores and an excellent academic record.

What is a “match” with your interests in the broader sense of education? You are a unique individual. Universities like to believe they are also unique. Competitive admissions committees actually look for these differences among applicants as they fill a diversified class.

This goes beyond general reputation and test scores. Why is MIT your “dream school?” What does it offer which is unique to you? Try to define that for yourself and the quality of your final applications will improve as you look beyond general reputation and into the nuts and bolts of the actual programs. The best Universities do not select the final reviews completely by algorithms.

Are you a student with a collection of listed activities or do you have a passion which pushes you into the activity? What pushes you to learn and develop solutions beyond participation?

I believe if you use this approach, you with gain admission to the right school for you.

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@retiredfarmer - thank you so much for the advice - this is what I was hoping for.

About why MIT - I didn’t articulate the reasons in the post here but planning to concentrate on that part during the application. Having said that - for other other universities that I listed, have to say that I went with reputed and well known universities in the CS/AppliedMath fields, especially the ones with strong research record. In my university search, the most important factor for me is the strength of the curriculum and research record in my intended major. Geography and size of the universities does not really sway me in one way or the other (I visited some of them for multiple times as part of my math/science competitions and summer programs - can confidently say that I am fine with Geography and size of the schools). My main interest - which is pursued during my summer programs and independent research - is in problem solving and developing complex algorithms for real world problem scenarios. Did/doing research in computational analysis of image processing and based on my reading would love to go for higher ed in AI or something similar based on my undergrad education. I was told that for higher ed, the reputation of college you attend during the undergraduate matters - that is one of the reasons for trying hard to get into top schools. I have to admit that for most universities in my list, I have yet to do full research - I went with their general reputation in being excelling in research in many math/cs/technology fields. thanks for the tips on how to apply to these competitive colleges.

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any other comments/suggestions. appreciate if anyone can share thoughts on: among the CMU, Cornell, Dartmouth what is my best shot if I apply in ED. I toured all of them and like - want to apply to one of them in ED. Want to use it most effectively - so advice what is my best shot ED app would be (among those three in Math/CS majors).
Why ED: I realize that my chances at all these reaches are low - just trying to use my ED silver bullet carefully. I do have couple safeties in mind but appreciate if you can suggest any others that are not in my list in post#1. thanks.

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What state do you live in? Your in-state flagship may be a safety…regarding your list above UMass (I assume Amherst) is probably a highly likely, tough to call CS there a safety. I don’t see any other CS safeties on that list.

I can’t chance you for the ED schools, but run the NPCs to make sure any ED school is affordable. IMO Dartmouth and CMU are so very different in terms of overall vibe…where do you feel you fit the best, also throwing Cornell into the mix?

Lastly, is that 3.8UW for core courses only? If not recalculate that, without electives and PE

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Thanks. I am in MA. 3.83UW is core course GPA - school ‘officially’ reports only W and its 4.8 with around 15 rank.
About the safety - not sure if we can call anything a safety, there are no guarantees obviously. But based on school Naviance charts - there were no rejections with my GPA/SAT at WPI and UMass-A in last three years (but admittedly it can change; and also sometimes I wonder the accuracy of these charts). Anecdotally - talking to current seniors - most students with similar ranks typically get admits from these two colleges (our school sends a big continent of students to both Umass and WPI) unless I screw up big time in essays/recommendations.
Appreciate thoughts on any other safeties that I should consider.
About the ED - yes NPC’s are done fine with affordability. I felt Cornell and Dartmouth are similar; and yes I liked CMU too - think I am open about any or don’t have strong feelings about one category as such (I have friends at all three from our high school and based on these conversations I am attracted to some aspect of each: out doors + cloesknit + environmentally conscious Dartmouth; a big university with research opportunities with lots of outdoor opportunities at Cornell; a strong CS program at CMU are what I am attracted to). I stayed with my friends at 2 of those colleges during my visits in the summer and can say that I will not have any issues in socially adjusting. My only concern is how to get in :smile: :smile:

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Dartmouth is also known for heavy fraternity and sorority participation, which may affect the social environment there. Good or bad for you?

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Applying ED to a college that is not your first choice is not the way it’s supposed to work, but that’s where we are now. I recommend Cornell ED and 1 or 2 public universities, maybe Michigan or GTech EA and see what happens. Berkeley only has RD, and UC deadline is late November so you could also apply there. Good luck!

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The frat participation does not affect me either way – I am not a party person but enjoy hanging out with friends on a tennis/basketball court; outdoor activities are also a big thing for me (peak bagger). My friends at Dartmouth – both are sophomores who showed me around and introduced me to a bunch of their friends – are somewhat similar and they told me that there are enough social activities to keep themselves busy thru year. One of them is a frat member while other is not. They also told me that if I feel like going to a party once in a while I don’t really have to be a member (having friends in frats is good enough apparently). Anyway, I did thought about this and feel I would have fine social life outside frats – if there is a frat/other-organization with like-minded (outdoors/recreational-sports) people I wouldn’t mind joining that group.

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I agree with others that you do have a chance at any university, including MIT. However, it would be a reach. I also agree that with your being from Massachusetts U.Mass Amherst is a very good school. I would certainly hope that you would get in with your superb stats and being in-state.

I would be inclined to ED wherever you feel is your first choice. Given that you have some chance anywhere, I don’t think that you would want to think “what if” after the fact if you are admitted ED to somewhere that is not your top choice.

Looking at what you say above, I am wondering whether 18C at MIT would be a great fit for you – this is a math major with computer science specifically as part of the major. I am a bit sorry that they didn’t have it way back when I was there since it would have been perfect for me. In my experience MIT was great for applied math, although all of the professors that I had there will have retired by now.

Another school to consider is McGill. It is not too far from Massachusetts (about a 5 hour drive depending upon where you are) and admissions is very stats oriented. I don’t think that being Asian would hurt you at all there.

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You may also want to take a look at the course catalogs and schedules of the various colleges (at least in math and CS) to see how well the offerings and how frequently they are offered match your interests.

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@DadTwoGirls - thanks for the detailed response.

Yes MIT/AppliedMath major would be a great fit - but I am not too confident that I would get in into MIT. I know posters here may not like my thinking but I am being realistic about my chances at MIT (and other reach schools) and thinking of applying to a school with ED to boost my admission chances (at least slightly). While my test scores are good, my UW GPA with 3 B’s across my high school years makes me feel that my chances are low at most T20’s and applying in ED may provide a bit fillip. Our public high school sends 1 or 2 students to MIT each year - most of the time they are Vals/girls/someone-with-hook or just extraordinary. In our class we have a student who checks all those 4 categories and she is interested in MIT (she is a good friend and am happy/proud of her) - so thought my own chances at MIT are very low. I know officially everyone says that there can be multiple students from school at MIT - but it never happened in our school (directly from GC). So I don’t think I would regret or second guess if I get into ED at one of the colleges mentioned.

Thanks for the suggestion - I too am considering McGill and Toronto (being a dual Canadian citizen - it can be cheaper; though parents are fine with EFC at all colleges considered for ED, want to limit the expenses and save for a potential advanced degree). One reservation I have about going to McGill/Toronto (if I get into) is this: I have aspirations to go for higher ed, dream is to get a PhD and/or get research job that involves AI/Math/Algorithmic analysis. What I heard is if I do go for PhD - having a degree from a T20 university will help to get into a good college and that Canadian universities are a bit tough on grades and may hurt grad admissions chances - any thoughts on this?

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@ucbalumnus - thanks for the tip. I will look into the course catalog/schedules at all colleges. I did look into some of them and UMass and CMU have the best possible courses for what I am aspiring (as of now :smile: ). The main reason thinking about ED at CMU is their focus on AI and I also got the impression that getting double major in AI and Math (with applied math concentration) is possible - if I managed to get into SCS. At UMass - they do have excellent courses in AI. I am really hoping that I would get into UMass Honors college for any help in course choices/scheduling but that maybe again a reach for me. Let’s see. Thanks.

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“I am not too confident that I would get in into MIT”
I am not sure how we can guess your chances. I would not be too concerned about there being another strong candidate from your school. As one example, I came from a high school that in the entire history of the high school had only sent one single student to MIT. The year that I graduated high school, two of us were accepted to MIT and we both went there (we were also very good friends). Your stats are about the same as mine in math and science (including the multiple 800’s on SAT tests), but you are way stronger than I was at other subjects. I had a lot worse than three B’s in non-math non-science classes.

“…or just extraordinary”
Four 800’s on the SATs plus a couple of 780s is pretty good!

“being a dual Canadian citizen…”
McGill would be quite a bargain for you. When we looked about six years ago being a Canadian citizen who was born in the US and had never lived in Canada made my daughter eligible for “Canadian born abroad” tuition, which is the same as resident of Quebec tuition. I don’t know whether this is still true.

“Canadian universities are a bit tough on grades and may hurt grad admissions chances - any thoughts on this?”
One issue is that McGill and Toronto are much easier to get accepted to than MIT, Caltech, Harvard, or Stanford. However, they are not significantly easier once you are there. As such, many students get accepted to McGill and Toronto who would not have gotten into MIT or Caltech. They are likely on average (not in every case of course) to pull down the overall average grade and give the school a reputation for grade deflation.

I do know multiple people who did their undergrad at McGill or Toronto and then did graduate school at one of Stanford, Princeton, or U.Washington. Having attended McGill or Toronto did not prevent them from attending a great graduate school in the US. Of course McGill or Toronto will be very challenging and will be a lot of work. However, the same is of course true of MIT. I am pretty sure that graduate school admissions in the US is aware of the rumors of grade deflation at McGill and Toronto.

There are other very good universities in Canada, with Queens being one that comes to mind as worth considering. However, with your stats I would expect you to get accepted to any university in Canada and you do not need to apply to very many up there.

I have a daughter who like you was from a high school in the US but with dual citizenship. She is currently studying at university in Canada. She is saving a good chunk of her 529 funds for graduate school. We are allowing her to keep what she is saving for graduate school.