<p>I wonder if she comes off the wait list if there will be any financial aid left available.</p>
<p>Ok, I’m just going to throw this out there . . . </p>
<p>VADAD1, you’ve been saying that your daughter has a 4.5 GPA and ranked in the top 2 percent of her class. But these numbers need to be considered in the context of your school. PGHS offers honors classes in virtually all subjects starting freshman year and offers around eight or ten AP classes starting junior year. It also weighs an A in an AP class at 5.5 and an A in an Honors class at 5.0. </p>
<p>In this context, a 4.5 is basically a B+ average at the Honors level. This is obviously very good, but not over the top. </p>
<p>U-Va is on record that, in evaluating applications, what matters less is the offerings of the particular high school and what matters more is the extent to which the student is seen as having taken full advantage of the opportunities that are offered. Respectfully, might I suggest the possibility that a student with a 2330 on the SAT --with your daughter’s record and at your daughter’s high school – was viewed by admissions committees as a bit of an underachiever? That’s the risk that students run (especially with selective colleges) when they ace the SAT but don’t have the academic record to back it up. It’s especially true when those students don’t have a strong array of extracurricular activities.</p>
<p>I’ve tried to gracefully bow out of this discussion about why my daughter did not get admitted, but I’ll address this one last point.</p>
<p>novaparent, in 10th grade, my daughter did not achieve to her own potential. Without a doubt that is true, but she’s still in the top 2% of her class, and according to Dean J, at least 6 of her classmates were accepted, so I think even UVA recognized that PG had a strong class.</p>
<p>It just didn’t work out for my daughter. That’s the way it goes.</p>
<p>VADAD1. We went through a long, painful, and unsuccessful WL experience last year, despite having high hopes throughout the whole process. The good thing about kids is that they get past these things quickly. Im barely over it a year later but my S moved on immediately when the UVA wait list was released.</p>
<p>One question- if you just focus on SAT/class rank, it sounds like your girl is way over the mean at almost every school to which she applied- do you feel that there was something different about the way that she was treated by UVA than the other schools? I would have thought that Smith was safer than UVA. One possibility is that her application, as a whole, placed her within the group of students who were very competitive at all of these great schools, but just not over the top, for whatever reason. I hope that it all works out in the end!</p>
<p>UVADAD1, thanks for the words of encouragement.</p>
<p>I think the reasons why she didn’t make the cut at Smith and UVA are probably different.</p>
<p>Smith is a small school, and by the time they account for all of their athletes, their violin players, international students, and underrepresented minorities, it leaves a pretty small window for girls like my daughter…really smart girls who haven’t necessarily any particular talent and don’t fit any of those groups.</p>
<p>Smith is one of the few schools who just admits that they use financial aid to make the final cuts. Unfortunately I was not aware of that until the other day, when I examined there financial aid web site. So…that was an error on my part.</p>
<p>At Virginia, I am not really sure what happened. When the counselor called, they said her 10th grade performance was a concern and that her essay was weak.</p>
<p>I hate that college admissions are determined by essays, that can never be quantified.</p>
<p>My favorite part of a students application is their essay!</p>
<p>It conveys so much about a student on many levels. It is their time to set themselves a part from everyone else. It gives them a voice, a story, a sense of humor-it shares so much of who they are as a person. </p>
<p>I love holistic approaches to admissions for this very reason. A student is more than numbers they are a person that has thoughts, feelings, and adventures. UVa is a special place because they have so many different types of personalities that just blend. The best way to know the personality of a student if a college does not do interviews is through the essay.</p>
<p>A lesson learned for future applicants - put lots of thought and effort into the UVa essays. They do matter.</p>
<p>Yeah…I don’t disagree with you woosah necessarily, it’s just very subjective. One person might love an essay while another person might hate it.</p>
<p>Not going to press the point too much, trying to get past sounding like a bitter parent.</p>
<p>VADAD… My daughter was waitlisted last year (we live overseas) and her brother is now a second year and doing very well at UVA. I think the whole process was tough for her and for us. I am a UVA grad and I loved my experience; it was a fantastic and fun, but also an intellectually stimulating experience for me. I was not in a sorority but I had many friends who were. The great thing about UVA to me, is you could be who you were/are and also feel so connected to the institution, the heritage and the history. That is what I feel separates it from other schools…then again, that is/was my experience.</p>
<p>I empathize with you VADAD. This is not easy for you nor your daughter. Please trust the process and know she will end up in the place which is right for her. My daughter did not get off the waitlist which was disappointing for me personally, but she has flourished at the school she went to: a small liberal arts school which has suited her to a tee. </p>
<p>So what I thought was best maybe wasn’t the best for her in the end. I know she was intellectually more than capable to handle UVA’s academics, but perhaps she needed a different environment. At the end of the day, she is extremely happy and doing very well…What more could I ask for?</p>
<p>I hope the best for you and your daughter… Good luck to you both!</p>
<p>tennisq, thanks for those words of encouragement, I truly appreciate it.</p>
<p>One thing about essays is that they demonstrate a largely sought skill. Writing quality is low in the United States, and that is one reason why colleges are hesitant to embrace the writing section of the SAT. Colleges want people who can successfully and persuasively express ideas. Great writers aren’t all too typical, so the essay in reality can mean a great deal more than a test score. Being a great writer is a gift that I believe is natural, just as someone is naturally gifted at mathematics. While college essays aren’t exactly the best to use (someone I know had hers written by a friend), I think that if colleges check the style and word choice of writer’s admission essay against his/her SAT essay (which many schools do), it is a useful tool and can be a considerable part of the admissions process. Taking away weight on an essay is no different than taking away the math portion of the SAT for someone gifted in that particular area. It is also a pretty wide known observance that the great writers throughout the decades have not been conventionally intelligent. An SAT score of a natural writer might not reflect his/her true intelligence. I’m not trying to restart the debate, but it’s an interesting thought to consider.</p>
<p>Also at the risk of flogging a dead horse, I’m pretty sure that the Smith waitlist is only partially the result of your financial need. Small LACs like Smith place a greater emphasis on extracurricular involvement than larger schools do because, well, their classes are too small to allow much room for more introverted students. They look for a disproportionate supply of extroverts to help ensure an active campus life. </p>
<p>I know your guidance counselor is a good guy, and at this point placing blame gets you nowhere, but I must say: for a guidance counselor at a Virginia public high school to advise a student who was not an extracurricular star and who “did not achieve to her potential in 10th grade” that U-Va is a safe school is out of touch. In Northern Virginia at least, such students are advised to give U-Va a try – but to be sure to throw in an application to JMU, Mary Washington, Tech, and maybe even VCU as well.</p>
<p>It’s noted the the flogging of the dead horse is completely unintentional.</p>
<p>LOL!! VADAD1, you are a class act. Others should follow your example.</p>
<p>marrob4, I have to say, I’ve encountered the nicest most helpful people on this message board. I’ve had tons of people PM words of encouragement or helpful advice. I’m really impressed with the people here.</p>
<p>I will be thinking of your family tomorrow. Your daughter will be a success regardless of where she goes.</p>
<p>Thank you marrob4, really appreciate that.</p>
<p>VaDad: did you look to see if any public universities in Va. are still accepting applications? Even if they aren’t, they might be willing to make an exception for an unusually high stat applicant, if you explain your situation.</p>
<p>Thank you Charlie, we are looking at that, and exploring lots of other options too.</p>
<p>Sorry, but I’m not going to apologize for expressing the opinion that the guidance counselor screwed up. Because (assuming we know all the facts) he unquestionably did. Public schools students, especially in less advantaged school districts, deserve better. And if my saying so means I’m not a class act, then so be it.</p>
<p>No guidance counselor in his or her right mind would advise a student with VADAD1’s academic and financial profile to apply only to Wellesley, Smith, Duke, MIT, and U-Va.</p>