Chance of admission and success at Rochester

Highly ranked public school many, many hours drive west of Rochester (maybe increases odds?)
3.2 / 4.0 scale GPA
26 ACT
1 HS sport, not captain, will not play in college but earned honors
1 EC standard save the environment volunteer work
Interview with admin officer in hotel lobby - feedback very positve
Essay - feedback very positive
Female, but not a minority or first in family to attend college.
No family conection to Rochester.
UofR rep has visited our HS many times and while many were accepted, nobody has enrolled in UofR for the last 10 years. (Not sure if that is a positive or negative).

Two questions:
Chances of admission?
Chances of success if admitted?.

Thanks

not very likely- sorry. Your scores are low for Rochester’s standards and while essay and interview are important they cannot compensate for that much. Further it doesn’t seem like you have a big hook of any sorts or an EC that will make you stand above and make them look past your scores. Good luck finding your perfect place though- It is definitely out there.

Your GPA and ACT are pretty low for UR. You have 2 ECs with no leadership. The long drive does not help, if anything it would hurt because they may think you less likely to attend, and as you said, your school is not underrepresented, kids are accepted, and choose not to attend. I’d say it’s a reach, but as the above user said, there are many other schools out there for you.

Okay, I fibbed a bit to make a point. The stats I posted are from 4+ yrs ago when my oldest applied to U of R (and was accepted). Now that I think about it, the ACT might have been 27 and not 26 but hopefully my point was made.

About 250 freshman a year attend U or R who fall below the middle 50 and the vast majority of them succeed at U of R. Sure, they are not REMS or GEAR kids but that doesn’t mean they won’t go on to great success at U of R and after.

In any event, it has been a great 3 1/2 years. Rochester has been a great experience and I have nothing but praise for the professors and staff and the school. Along the way there has been a semester abroad, a paid internship and a double major is almost complete. A couple road trips with friends and the traditional spring break with 8 crammed in a hotel room. And lots of debates over beers at the Genesee Brewery about whether Dino or Sticky Lips is better.

It has taken a lots of very, very, very hard work and many late nights of study. But so far there have been two full time job offers and a couple more interviews scheduled. A bright future lies ahead and we our proud of our kid.

U of R has done nothing but improve since our first visit. A new LEED certified dorm, academic buildings, new student apartments at Brooks Landing and now College Town. Planned improvements to Southside and a new entrance from that end of campus will further improve the campus. So a good thing is getting even better. The school will receive my financial support as soon as we get our younger daughter off to college.

So we are looking forward to May 17 and then afterwards a few well-deserved pints at the Elmwood Inn or Sheridan’s or both!

Students who fall below the middle 50 shouldn’t abandon hope. Nothing wrong with applying to a reach. The three most senior people in my office all are grads of 2nd tier public universities. For me, U of R would have been a very long reach indeed. But now I’ve got Wash U and U of C grads who report to me. Wasn’t it Harry Truman who said “C students run the world”?

Anyways, best of luck to all. Wherever you end up, make the most of it but never sell yourself short.

@123Angus Based on my family’s experience, admissions across the board has gotten nothing but more difficult over the past 4-5 years. Six years ago, DD was accepted pre-med to a top-60 flagship state university that my DS applying in biology with better grades, test scores (35 math), and ECs has been deferred from and all but excluded from the scholarship he would need to attend that school despite matching the high end of that school’s published 25%-75% numbers to a tee. He’s been accepted into Case Western with a $25,000/yr merit scholarship, so I don’t see a non-Michigan/Northwestern Big Ten school as a reach for him.

Congrats to your oldest for their success, but it’s questionable at best that he/she would have had the necessary luck with admissions in today’s climate to prove his/her worth with those numbers at a school as selective as U of R. Given the chance, most students at U of R could excel even at schools like Brown, Tufts, or Rice but would never get that opportunity due to their “subpar” stats at admission time. It’s the nature of today’s game. I don’t know that it’s helpful for those who are ultimately rejected from this year’s pool at U of R with stronger stats than your child’s to compare themselves against a single anecdotal case from an entirely different applicant pool.

I agree with the above - Yes, this thread does serve to make a point. Numbers aren’t everything. But that’s what the results threads are for. Students can look at the results threads and see that while one student with lower stats was accepted, nine weren’t. UR has a 35% acceptance rate, and that includes the students who apply as a safety to Ivys. I don’t think it is a good idea to advertise that your child got in, this is the exception, not the tendency. If a student wants to see if they have a chance, comparing themselves to one student from years ago really isn’t helpful. The results threads allow students to compare themselves to many students, from any year they want, with detailed stats in an organized fashion.

@sitxdad, I fully understand that the admissions hurdle has been raised over the years and those standards have risen further in just the last 4 years. No doubt there are students denied by U of R but accepted at an Ivy. (Thank God I’m an old fart or I might have a hard time gaining admission today to XYZ Jr College let alone the 2nd tier state I attended). As we look at schools with my HS senior daughter we are seeing first-hand the raised bar but that won’t stop her from applying to a reach. My kid is not a single anecdotal case but one of about 400 below the middle 50% who are part of that class.In many ways it is unfair that 400 kids with stats below the middle 50 are admitted while many more than that in the middle 50% or higher are denied. But applicants below the middle 50 should be encouraged to reach and apply and I think more data points help not hurt.

@jamesjunkers I respectfully disagree. A site like this with selectively reported info might discourage kids below the middle 50% from even applying. I couldn’t find any who were below the middle 50% posting their stats in the accepted thread. In fact, I’d suggest that if more accepted students below the middle 50% were to post their stats the site would be MORE helpful and not less. Perhaps students below the middle 50 rarely visit sites like this.

I can’t recall ever seeing an accepted student rate their own essay a 2/10 or report that that they their interpersonal skills are sorely lacking and as a result they bombed the interview. Surely that was the case for at least some applicants - no doubt some with superb scores and grades.

UofR reports the 2014-15 middle 50% ACT at 29-33. So very roughly speaking, 480 kids in this class of 1,300 had an ACT of 28 or lower. I’m sure the yield from that bottom 25% was not 100% so that means that far more than 480 kids who applied with an ACT of 28 or lower were accepted. Yes, their acceptance rate was probably far lower than that of students in the top 25% but that is not my point.

Last week a Wall Street Journal article focused on business school admission. The dean of a top school looking to improve their admitted class joked that “we want people who are employable, instead of a bunch of nerds”. I think he was only half joking. Schools don’t want a homogenous class, can you imagine how boring that would be?

So no disrespect to anyone and I do see some injustice when a kid with a 34 is rejected while another with a 27 is accepted. Part of me would rather my kids both had perfect scores on entrance exams and straight A’s in every AP course. But I’m just pointing out that last year great schools like UofR accepted hundreds of applicants with an ACT of 28 or lower and that those stats are only part of the admissions process.

@123Angus:

You are mostly correct when you say that “students below the middle 50 rarely visit sites like this.” College Confidential is infamous for being top students, for being full of overachievers. Frankly, the majority of students on this site are going to be above the middle 50%.

By making this thread, you are telling students that they have a good chance at getting into a top school with subpar stats (subpar being relative, a 26 ACT is much above the national average). Yes, 25% of enrolled students will be below the middle 50%. By definition, that is what it means. However, the number is less when you look at those accepted. Think about it logically - the yield rate for lower stats students is most likely higher than upper stats students. The 25-75 percentiles often reflect enrolled students, not accepted. So students shouldn’t expect to get into a school for which they are in the bottom 25%; I am not saying not to apply, everyone should have reaches, but false hope is just as bad as no hope. (Edit: I just read a later paragraph where you acknowledged this yield issue. So clearly you understand this)

The reason no accepted student rates their essay a 2/10 is because no students consider their essay that bad. From a student’s perspective (I am a student, so I feel qualified here), a college essay is a representation of yourself. I’m not saying every single one of my essays was perfect, but I’d never say any of them were a 20%. I would not have submitted them if I thought that way. I guarantee you no rejected student is going to say they’re essay is a 2/10 either (unless they’re trying to make excuses). Generally those whose “interpersonal skills are sorely lacking” opt not to interview. Although it’s recommended, many students choose not to take that option because they don’t do well in those situations.

Of course schools don't want boring students, but they can only believe that to an extent. Yes, there are instances where the 30, 3.6 gets in over the 36, 4.0 because the 30 had more interesting activities, and showed motivation. But most of the kids who worked hard enough to achieve that 36, 4.0 realized how important EC's were throughout high school, and has a nice looking resume as well.

I’m not trying to undermine your message; students should apply where they want to go. Applying to reach schools is encouraged. But there is no need to emphasize one case of a student getting in with lower stats. Would it make sense for a student with amazing stats to make a thread showing that he was rejected? No, this is one situation. Yes, there are others like it, but it’s not the norm.

@jamesjunkers – We’ll have to agree to disagree. I suspect my views are different from yours partially because I’m more than twice your age. Over time your opinion might also change.

“……you are telling students that they have a good chance at getting into a top school with subpar stats”.
I did no such thing. I pointed out that 25% of admitted students were by definition in the bottom 25% and I encourage those in that category to apply to reaches. I am a glass half full guy. A 26 ACT composite could have been: Math 17, Science 17, Reading 34 and English 34. Perhaps the student intended to major in English and would excel at U of R where the flexible curriculum is a perfect fit.

“The reason no accepted student rates their essay a 2/10 is because no students consider their essay that bad”. Agreed, and that is exactly why a self-rated essay or interview is not a very valuable data point.

Much of this is a matter of perspective. Case in point, your 1,700+ posts on CC for which some would rate you off the charts enthusiastic. For others, 1,700 posts would be a huge red flag. No judgment here, I’m just pointing out two different perspectives from observing exactly the same information.

“But there is no need to emphasize one case of a student getting in with lower stats. Would it make sense for a student with amazing stats to make a thread showing that he was rejected?” I couldn’t disagree more. Both of the above make complete sense because both happen 100’s of times with each application season. Applicants should know that stats in the top 25% don’t guarantee admission just as stats in the bottom 25% don’t guarantee rejection.

Again, I’m a glass half full kind of guy. I wish you the best in your studies and if you’ve chosen U of R, congrats. It is a great school with a remarkably diverse student body.

Just skimming quickly, but wanted to point out that the middle 50% reportedly have ACT 29-33. The bottom 25% are < 29. If you took a best case scenario with 1300 students, 25% is 325, not 480. I suspect not all submitted the ACT since the SAT is dominant in many states, so I don’t think the max of 325 is all that accurate. That same number would be > 33.

I’d suspect many (certainly not all) of the lower scores would come from those with other hooks or strengths of some sort.

One ought to still try an app if they feel they fit in well at URoc, but there’s no way I’d put high hopes on it vs a “let’s see what happens.”

@123Angus The ACT profile you present is likley very unusual and probably presents a red flag of the highest order. Schools like Rochester don’t insist upon ACT scores in the very high-30s, but those in the teens still are going to be suspect. This is especially true for a flexible school like Rochester, where majors are not determined upon acceptance and the 17 Math/Sci kid could still decide to major in Biomedical Engineering. Good luck, Rochester, explaining that disaster to your clinical placement partners.

Glasses half full are fine and dandy, but average kids rarely get into top schools nowadays. I am in my 40’s and know plenty of Ivy/elite graduates my own age who would be laughed out of the early stages of the application process in today’s hypercompetitive admissions climate. There were literally half as many college kids in the 1980s as there are today. Rochester does a MUCH better job than most schools of looking for kids who fit their profile instead of being stat mongers, but their profile still requires high achivement and aptitude even if it allows for a few imperfections. A kid whose profile screams UMass-Boston or Towson State just isn’t going get in despite the smoke you blow up their behinds based upon one decade old, anecdotal case.

Today’s snake oil salespeople are those who sell every above-average kid on the notion they are Ivy-bound, sowing a cascading level of dissatisfaction instead of celebration amongst the high-achieving population when they get into their match schools rather than their foolishly out of reach “dreams.” I am tired of the effect this thinking has on our kids and am calling nonsense on everyone who insists on perpetuating it. It is likely that 75% of the lower 25% of admitted students just missed the cutoff stats, leaving just a a dozen or two well below those numbers instead of the “hundreds” you suggest. A longshot chance recognized for what it is, like a Hail Mary pass in football, is fair enough; to encourage false hope is just cruel and counterproductive.

I got accepted into U of R mainly because of my “unique essay,” they stated, and the interview. Everything else had little effect, because I did nothing “great” in my education - I was below average in my high school. You really do need to show the admission office that you’re capable of succeeding at their school by explaining why the stats from high school and ACT are low, in whatever circumstances. A good essay and interview does compensate (if any) lack in high stats.

Just to mention, Rochester’s acceptance rate dropped to 29% this year, talked to someone in admissions while on campus. So it has certainly become more selective.

@Creekland - my bad. I manage money for a living but can’t multiply!!! So roughly 325 kids enrolled last year with an ACT of 28 or lower and perhaps not quite 1,300 enrolled over the last 4 years with an ACT of 28 or lower. We don’t know how many were accepted with an ACT of 28 or lower last year but fair to assume more than the 325 enrolled. And, of course, the odds of acceptance with a top 25% score are certainly far higher.

@TKha92 congrats on your acceptance!! U of R has a very high retention rate - I recall something like 96% of my kids freshman class returned for their sophomore year. You’ll do very well.

@Kassra17 I saw the class of 2018 with a 35% acceptance rate. If that number has dropped this year to 29% that is a significant move. Congrats to U of R.

@sltxdad An ACT profile like the sample one I listed is probably more common than you think and certainly not a “red flag of the highest order”. My younger child is not far off those numbers - a great writer, lover of literature, speaks 4 languages but has never had much interest in STEM.

Students with low Science scores and very high English scores are not likely to major in Biomedical Engineering - so not much need to worry about a Shakespeare lover rushing to enroll in Biomedical Engineering classes. U of R offers 75 different majors.

As for the “smoke you blow up their behinds” and “snake oil salespeople” and “to encourage false hope is just cruel and counterproductive” etc. - I find your choice of words more than a bit harsh.

Several hundred kids last year with ACT scores below the middle 50% took the $70 application fee gamble and 325 of them took their place in the current U of R freshman class. Good thing they didn’t consult you when trying to decide whether or not to apply.

As a young boy, Winston Churchill was described as a dunce by some of his teachers but he was nothing of the sort. He did poorly in some subjects which didn’t interest him. However, in college he was able to focus on the subjects which did excite him and graduated near the top of his class.

In my 50+ years on earth I’ve had lots of people tell me what I couldn’t do and I contine to prove them wrong. So I firmly remain a glass half full guy and would suggest most kids will go further in life with a “defy the odds” attitude rather than adoupting the mentality of Eeyore.