<p>"Racism towards blacks doesn't really exist anymore in our society."</p>
<p>ROTFLMAO!</p>
<p>atomicfusion: You really cannot make any generalizations like that. You do not know how many racist comments I have received, how many times my family has been discriminated against, and how many painful things my family has gone through in general. So YES! racism does still exist (thanks northstarmom). And YES! Black people are still constantly discriminated against just b/c of our skin color! A lot of white people might assume racism is gone, but believe me, it is alive and well. As far as other people having hardships, that will probably come out in their essays and a low socioeconomic standing is also a tip factor for an admission decision. Ok, so maybe there is one black person out there who hasn't faced hardship/discrimination, but a greater percentage of black people have faced challenges than white people. As far as my chances, of course i know that HYPS is a reach. Its a reach for everyone (except if you are TRULY phenomenal; ex: intel finalist, all-american athete, 2400, 800*3...)b/c once you get to that level, its pretty much a crapshoot. But I am black, and I am a recruited runner, and I like my chances enough that I will apply to those schools. But your analyzing my chances if I weren't black is just pointless b/c I am and no matter how "unfair" you might think it is, or maybe how jealous you are, I can't change it. Thanks for your comments, and I hope you get in wherever you want to go</p>
<p>Choc, I really respect you! Bravo! I hope you will get in wherever you deserve to go.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"Racism towards blacks doesn't really exist anymore in our society."</p>
<p>ROTFLMAO!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Obviously racism always exists with some people. I meant racism in general in our society specifically towards blacks. Now all types of people in our society are victims of racism. Our society seemed to accept racism in the past and does not any more. I assumed people would understand what I meant, but I guess even an extremely wise mother (so wise she still goes onto forums for teenagers) didn't catch it.</p>
<p>Choc, everyone is discriminated against. I am white and I am often discriminated against by some black people, just as some black people are often discriminated against by whites. I have seen arabs, asians, mexicans, canadians, europeans, basically everyone been discriminated against or judged. I also consider affirmative action to be racist in a way against me and other white people. Therefore I am also a victim of racism, correct?</p>
<p>Socioeconomic status is not the same as race. If you are lower income, then you should be given a slight advantage in my opinion (I am also lower income). But, you should not be given an advantage just for the color of your skin.</p>
<p>to quote MLK "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."</p>
<p>I would give anything to see that exclamation from NSM again!</p>
<p>Atomicfusion, while you may have been discriminated against by blacks (it happens, who woulda thunk it?) your discrimination most likely did not affect your shcooling, your parents' schooling, or your educational opportunities. Most schools in majority black neighborhoods are in such a state of ill repair that there's no way you can learn anything, there is still discrimination against blacks in the workplace and beyond, so yes, racism <em>does</em> still exist.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Most schools in majority black neighborhoods are in such a state of ill repair that there's no way you can learn anything
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That is socioeconomic. If you are in a poor community and thus have a harder life because of it, then I understand why you should be given an advantage.</p>
<p>Discrimination is not what affected blacks in those communities schooling. It is caused by poverty and a failure by our education system. </p>
<p>If we used AA based on race and not socioeconomics, then a white person who went to those horrible schools and lived in those poor neighborhoods would not be equal to a black person in the same situation, but far below. They would be compared to trust fund white kids, middle class white kids, etc. How is that right?</p>
<p>Discrimination against blacks in the workplace? But aren't there quotas? If you have an equally qualified black and white applicant for a job, who are you going to chose? You're going to chose the black applicant because of the color of his skin. That right there is racism against the white applicant. I'm not saying there isn't racism against black people in the workplace, just that in some ways there is racism against white people and other races too.</p>
<p>No but the thing is that studies have shown that schools in poor white neighborhoods are in better condition than schools in black neighborhoods of the same socio economic level.</p>
<p>Well you can believe what you want, I just don't think that you should be so critical of this girl and her accomplishments.</p>
<p>Communities aren't all white or black first of all. I would like to see these studies, because I wouldn't think race is a factor of neighborhood conditions, just location (like downtown in a city or something) and socioeconomics. What your suggesting is illogical. A poor black person who has had a hard life is somehow given no advantage over a rich black person who has had an easy one (I'm not making generalizations, it's just a hypothetical situation)? A white person, no matter what their income is always going to have less advantage than a black no matter what their income?</p>
<p>Race and socioeconomic status may have some parallels, but isn't that being very judgemental to assume that all black people are poor and all white people are rich?</p>
<p>I'm not being critical, film, I'm just being realistic. Unlike people saying "you're in!!!!", "you are a shoo-in!!", and etc, I am telling her the truth: no one is a shoo-in to HYPS no matter what race or socioeconomic status or ECs they have. Sure she has a great chance compared to the average applicant, but people need to assess chances more accurately.</p>
<p>Okay great.</p>
<p>def in.....congrats and good job :)</p>
<p>atomicfusion: YOU HAVE MADE YOUR POINT! I know that I am not a shoo-in as I have said repeatedly before. And please, drop the AA arguemnt because there are way to many threads on that. To be honest, I am one of those black people who see AA as reverse discrimination. The reason why I work so hard academically and in all my ec's is because if i get into my top schools come april, I don't want to have to face my white classmates who did not get into their top schools knowing that I was not up to par academically and only got in because I am black. Anyways, I agree with you that I along with everyone else must be realistic about assessing chances. With that, thanks for your comments and good luck this December/April!</p>
<p>filmxoxo17: Thanks for your support and comments!</p>
<p>leejwwc: Congrats on Duke and thanks!</p>
<p>Choc, don't let the drivel upset you. There will always be angry, jealous people. And you are a shoo in and will be accepted at several top schools.</p>
<p>"Discrimination against blacks in the workplace? But aren't there quotass"
No, there aren't quotas. They are illegal</p>
<p>Check this out:</p>
<p>"Yet another study finds that racial discrimination is alive and well in the hiring process, and it's keeping black men in metro Milwaukee on the unemployment rolls.</p>
<p>The study offers this fictional scenario:</p>
<p>A young, white, male high school graduate with a felony conviction applies in person for entry level jobs as a driver, a dishwasher, a laborer, warehouse worker and production worker that are advertised in the newspaper and admits to employers that he served 18 months in prison for possession of cocaine with intent to sell.</p>
<p>A young black man with similar education, work history and style of presentation, but with no criminal record, applies for the same jobs.</p>
<p>Who do you think is more likely to be called back?</p>
<p>If you picked the white man with the felony conviction, you guessed right.</p>
<p>This study offers evidence that discrimination remains a major factor in the economic lives of black men, and highlights the fear and misunderstanding of black males that permeate the local job market.</p>
<p>Devah Pager, a sociologist at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill., sent equally matched pairs of testers - two black and two white - to apply for low-skilled jobs at 350 places of employment in the Milwaukee area and found that white ex-offenders were more likely to be called back for an interview than black applicants who had no criminal record...." <a href="http://www.jsonline.com/bym/biz2biz/oct03/175535.asp%5B/url%5D">http://www.jsonline.com/bym/biz2biz/oct03/175535.asp</a></p>
<p>Watch Dave Chapel.</p>
<p>chapelle? why watch chapelle?</p>
<p>Because it exemplifies racism in a humorous way. anyways, i also noticed that there has been a growing discrimination towards Muslims after 9/11. Get this clear for those who arent sure - Islam does NOT advocate terrorism!</p>
<p>normally do not do chances because I believe that if you don't throw your hat in the ring your have a 100% chance of not being admitted. </p>
<p>Regarding SAT scores -they are taken into consideration in context of one's environment. I would like to see the how scores are broken out.</p>
<p>A score from a student from a single parent household, public school who works part time to help the family is going to be viewed differently than the same score from an intact 2 parent household where one or both parents are professionals. High SES, private school (or premier public school). SATs are also going to be taken in content of the average scores of the school which you attend. If you attend an elite private school where the average score is 1410 (old test), your score may not put you competitively in the pool. </p>
<p>Over the next few years, the competition to get into college especially selective schools is going to be really stiff just because of the sheer number of applicants (this includes URMs). </p>
<p>From the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education </p>
<p>*Yale Tops the Ivy League in Black Freshman Enrollments: *</p>
<p>JBHE has completed its annual collection of data on black first-year enrollments at the eight Ivy League colleges and universities. Blacks make up 9.3 percent of the first-year students at Yale University this fall. This is the highest rate in the Ivy League and the highest rate at Yale in the past decade. A year ago, only 6.7 percent of the entering class at Yale was black. </p>
<p>Harvard University also had a good year in attracting black students. There are 145 black freshmen at Harvard this fall. They make up 8.9 percent of the first-year class. </p>
<p>At the University of Pennsylvania, Princeton University, and Dartmouth College, blacks make up slightly more than 7 percent of the entering class. At Columbia University and Brown University, blacks are 6.8 percent of the freshman classes. </p>
<p>As has been the case for the past 13 years since JBHE began collecting statistics on black first-year enrollments in the Ivy League colleges, Cornell University has the smallest percentage of blacks in its entering class. This fall blacks are 4.7 percent of the freshman class at Cornell. </p>
<p>*Black Applicants Surge at Harvard and Dartmouth: *</p>
<p>Harvard reported this past week that it received a total of 22,717 applications for the class that will enter this fall. The number of applicants rose by 15 percent from last year's total. Black applications for the freshman class increased at an even higher rate. Harvard reports that black applicants increased 28.3 percent from last year. A university spokesperson stated that the huge jump in applicants may be due to the new Harvard Financial Aid Initiative, which essentially eliminates out-of-pocket tuition and room and board expenses for students who come from families with incomes of less than $40,000 per year. </p>
<p>In the year after the Cornel West controversy, black enrollments dipped slightly at Harvard. Now it appears that Harvard has weathered that storm as well as last summer's controversy surrounding the denial of tenure to African-American studies Professor Marcyliena Morgan. This denial of tenure caused Professor Morgan and her husband, Lawrence Bobo, the esteemed sociologist and member of the National Academy of Sciences, to take tenured teaching positions at Stanford. </p>
<p>At Dartmouth College, overall applications surged to their highest level in history. The admissions office reports that applications from "students of color" represented 25 percent of the total pool. Applications from blacks were at their highest level in the past four years. Good evidence that a frigid winter climate does not necessarily deter black applications to a college that is otherwise seen as receptive to black students. </p>
<p>Because there are more applicants applying to both of these schools this year, the 44% admit rate that Blacks got admitted into Dartmouth in the class of 08, is most likely going to decrease for the class decrease this year.</p>
<p>What does this mean overall for blacks; every one has to step up their game as being a URM is still going to be a hook, the pool in this population is going to be more competitive, whith more choices given to those that bring the overall "A" game to the table, as the pool is also participating in more rigerous courses offered by their school.</p>
<p>*Black Participation in Particular Advanced Placement Courses: *</p>
<p>In 2004 more than 78,000 African-American students took Advanced Placement examinations. Blacks now make up 5 percent of all Advanced Placement test takers nationwide. For both blacks and whites, English literature, American history, English composition, and calculus were the most popular AP courses. Blacks were 6.9 percent of all students who took the AP test in French literature. This was the highest participation percentage for any of the 34 AP subject tests. Blacks were also at least 6 percent of all test takers in the subject areas of English literature, world history, macroeconomics, and French language. </p>
<p>The lowest level of black participation was on the Spanish literature test. Only 56 black students nationwide took the AP test in Spanish literature in 2004. They were only 0.6 percent of all test takers in this subject. Blacks were also less than 2 percent of all AP test takers in the subject areas of electrical and magnetic physics, Spanish language, computer science, and German. </p>
<p>In the end while I believe in the importance of holding on to your dream and you should go for it. In the big scheme of things you are only risking the application and score reporting fees. I strongly advise you to have reach, match, safety schools (which includes a financial safety-if admitted you can attend and you will be able to afford) and rolling admissions school so that you will have something under your belt. Remember the process can be very capricious and arbitrary so there is no such thing as a sure thing..</p>
<p>You should also look at schools where you could be at the top of the applicant pool in line to get merit money (even if this means applying to a lower ranked school. With a strong grades, you should consider throwing is hat at an SAT optional school where his grades will take center stage. Remember that colleges build classes and the mission of the class changes year to year so what got a student into a school last year may not get them into a school this year or next.</p>
<p>Northstarmom also raises a valid point as there has been a lot of controversy over the fact that that most blacks at elite schools are immigrants (or descent) from africa or the carribean and very few african americans. I expect that over the next few years AA will be broken down by country the same way it is for asians.</p>
<p>All the best</p>