Chances for HYPSM? THANKS!!!

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Asian Male, 9-10th grade in TX, 11-12th grade in IL

Our school has a weird GPA system, but I have gotten A’s in every class in HS except Differential Equations (2nd semester Jr year)

SAT I: 1570 (770 english, 800 math)
SAT IIs: 800 Math 2, 800 US History, 790 Chem

AP:
9th grade: Human Geo (5)

10th grade: Calc BC (5), Chem(5), Psychology(5), World History(5), Seminar(4)

11th grade: Chinese(5), Language and Composition(5), Physics 1(5), US History(5)

Senior Course Load: AP Comp Sci, AP Physics C (EM and Mechanics), AP Economics (micro and macro), Choir, Linear Algebra, AP Literature and Composition

ECs:

9th-10th grade ECs (Texas)
Piano: Placed at many state-wide competitions and won an International Competition + $1500 :wink:
Voice: All-State Men’s Choir member (9th grade), All-State Mixed Choir Member (1st Chair, 10th grade)
Lots of service in church: taught 2nd grade choir, led worship for 1st-5th grade, helped teach kindergarten sunday school
Choir Section Leader
Varsity Swim Team member
Founder of Math Club
VP of Free Thinkers Club
Taught piano

11th grade ECs (Illinois)
Piano: Placed at many national competitions and represented USA at one of the biggest international competitions in the world…prepped 1.5 hrs of music for it r i p
Voice: Finalist in the Schmidt National Voice Competition, Illinois All-State Choir Member (1st Chair)
Math: Placed at ICTM State Math Competition, AIME Qualifier
MUN Participant
Taught piano for free
Picked up bodybuilding as a hobby :))))

I want to major in Economics or Dual Degree in Piano Performance and Economics.
Be honest!!! Thanks!!! Will chance back!!!

2

You should be in contention for all these schools. Concentrate on your essays, and decide on an early admission strategy.

3

Your chances are just as good as any other qualified applicant who is also an asian male. They are all reaches, you can’t count on anything.

4

yea clearly very accomplished academically and with music but you do not stray too far from the classic asian male combo of math + piano/violin achievement (I guess choir is a little less traditional). Every top school will take some of these students but there are more than enough qualified applicants to fill that niche in their student body. It seems you are one of the best at what you do in the country, so that might be enough to get the attention of at least one of the HYPSM schools

5

Work on your Arts Supplement for both your piano and voice.

6

I agree with @TiggerDad. Sending those art supplements for your piano playing and voice could be the deciding factor. Contact music department faculty at every school you apply to and ask whether you could meet them in person and/or directly send them a recording. Stress how much you love the school’s program, and maybe a faculty member might vouch for you. It has happened before.

Otherwise, your chances are probably a little above average for the typical asian male applying to HYPSM. Write some great essays that either captures one of your passions or shows a different side of you that might not be represented in your application.

7

Thanks so much @doorrealthe @TiggerDad @dblazer @Rivet2000 @ConcernedRabbit !!!’

8

Your academic preparation is fine. Your ECs sound quite impressive, yet in this age of abundant super-achievers, there might be something a bit generic about them. Actually, the bodybuilding stood out to me; that could make for a very interesting essay about how this hobby relates to (i.e., subverts, deconstructs, complicates, etc.) classic stereotypes of the Asian American student as a one-dimensional academic/classical-musical machine.

I also think that fact that you are actually considering doubling in piano performance sets you apart. Many kids who “do” music as a college-resume stocking-stuffer have no interest in continuing their musical involvements once they leave high school.

You certainly have the background that would make you qualified for admission to any of the top schools. Your task now–as others have noted–is to write essays that establish the singularity of the contributions that your background has equipped you to make at the school(s) you are applying to.

Finally, given your interests, you might want to consider Rice, which has a well respected school of music and an economics department that is profiting from some recent substantial upgrades in faculty and curriculum. Of course, one of your goals might be to get out of Texas (!), but bear in mind that Rice really does offer a quality of life which compares very favorably to that of any other university in the nation.

9

@MrSamford2014 , thank you so much for your response! I am considering Rice, but I currently live in Illinois :slight_smile:
I know Robert Roux (head piano professor there) personally; thanks again!!

Yes, many of my piano-playing friends play piano just for the resume…it’s such a sad phenomenon! I’m actually more interested in dual degree programs than “normal” college programs, as Harvard-NEC is the goal.

10

Hey! I think you have a really good shot at HYPSM - though I’m more surprised you’re asking for a chance for these schools when clearly your goal is dual-degree (Julliard-Columbia, Harvard-NEC, Yale?). Nevertheless, you do have extracurriculars that appear very “Asian” - but I’m not entirely convinced that’s a problem. You excel at them impressively (especially piano), so it’s more likely the others that have “Asian” activities will be the ones having a hard time, not you :D.

Essays and LoRs, of course, are key - I’m assuming you’ll write a good essay (the posts before this basically already talked about this) and judging by your kind demeanor, I’m sure the LoRs will be really good too! Maybe include a third rec from your piano teacher or someone who knows you well in music (assuming of course your piano teacher doesn’t hate you out of jealously because you might be better than them!).

Overall, there are no guarantees, but your app is one that is the closest that can be to that. Good luck next year!

Also, I actually was sent this from a friend of yours who is also really good at piano (not really relevant but just felt like putting that out there :D).

11

If you really want a dual degree with a conservatory, then only Harvard has that out of HYPSM (Yale is only graduate level in the conservatory). You can also look at Columbia, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, USC, Tufts, U Michigan, and Oberlin. RIce has the conservatory, but actually discourages dual degrees (though it is occasionally possible). Of course, you can double major with music at the HYPSM set without being at a conservatory, or continue studying with a conservatory teacher at many (incliding Harvard, having a teacher at NEC without doing the actual dual degree). The Harvard/NEC dual degree is the only one I know that ends with an MM rather than a BM from the conservatory side. Most of the real dual degrees require five years to complete, although Northwestern and Vanderbilt have four year options. If you are interested in the conservatory dual degree, of course you have to do both applications and be invited to audition once they hear your tape. Maybe you know all this, but I just wanted to be sure. If you just want to major in Econ and work the music in, of course that can work at HYPMS without the dual degree, or just with a double major but not both a BA and a BM or MM.

12

You have an impressive resume, but with no hooks these are still reach schools.

If you need merit $$ – or simply to find some matches – look at private U’s ranked about 30-70 and LACs ranked about 20-60. Obviously you can go lower and find low matches, safeties and merit.

There are exceptions – sometimes a school has a higher admit rate than its ranking might suggest, and vice-versa – of course, so check out admit rates and see where your stats fall vs. last year’s admits, in order to get an idea of whether a school is reach, match or safety.

In terms of your music interests, figure out if you need access to a conservatory. If you do, that limits your options; if not, HYPSM (and countless other schools…) are all in play.

Finally, if you develop a clear #1 choice, and if ED/SCEA appears to confer a clear advantage at that school, as it does at H, Y and P (not so much at S or M, Georgetown, and maybe a few others…) – consider applying ED/SCEA.

I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but Harvard’s SCEA admit rate is something like 15%. Princeton’s is like 17% and Yale’s is a bit north of that. If you look at the number of recruited athletes, there’s no way they (and even adding in legacies…) can account for the large jump in admit rate in early admission chances. It just isn’t statistically possible, unless HYP are admitting like a thousand athletes each cycle. (which they aren’t…) So yes, at the vast majority of schools, ED/SCEA does provide a fair-to-strong boost in chances.

Middlebury – a top-10 LAC – had an ED admit rate of near 50%, which I believe is the highest rate among top-10 universities or LACs.

Just make sure you can afford all the schools to which you apply, and the ED/SCEA school is no exception. Also, obviously, do not engage in a binding application unless the school is your favorite.

13

Princeton also has a dual degree program that ends with BA/MM or BS/MM except it runs a bit differently from Harvard/NEC. About a year ago, my violinist son wasn’t sure whether to apply to 1) music conservatory (NEC and Juilliard) or to schools that offer 2) dual degree (Harvard/NEC), or 3) double major. It didn’t take him long to eliminate 1) because he really wanted to experience the traditional school with the arts and sciences and he wanted the flexibility and career options down the road. He then eliminated the Harvard/NEC as an option because he felt he had been living an intense “double life” since he was 5 years old and didn’t want to continue that route.

This is where the attractiveness of Princeton’s dual degree program came to grab his attention. During the second semester of Sophomore year, you audition for the program. If successful, you’re off to the Royal College of Music in London at the start of Junior year for a semester. At the end of the semester at RCM, you’re given the qualifying audition for its MM degree program. Upon returning to Princeton, you have the choice to finish out your undergrad at Princeton and move on to something else entirely different or, if the audition was successful, back to RCM for the MM degree.

Why this particular double degree program is so attractive is that you’re given the flexibility to try out what it’s like to be in a conservatory for a semester. In essence, it’s a semester “study abroad” for music majors with credits. The experience also allows a chance to do much soul searching for those sitting on the fence about what career path they want to take. Many opt for a non-musical career after this, and that’s the purpose of the program: allowing the opportunity and experience for those sitting on the fence to come to a clarity about what they want to do with their lives.

I’d say that Harvard/NEC program is more suited for those who are already more leaning towards becoming a professional musician. I personally know several folks who went through this program and one (my son’s close friend) who’s about to start on this program in the fall, and the former group of folks are currently all successful professional musicians but with a degree at Harvard, as well. The Princeton’s program, on the other hand, is more suited for those who are already leaning more towards a non-music career but do still want to continue with music with the option of making a 180 degree turn back to all-in with music with lots of flexibility.

My son intends to major in Music at Princeton while taking pre-med requisite courses. He found at Princeton the most ideal opportunity to deal with his own inner issue of whether to be a professional musician or a career in non-music related field. He’s also thrilled by the fact that his favorite violin virtuoso, Maxim Vengerov, is a faculty at RCM.

OP - FYI, my son’s also an Asian-American with no hooks of any kind and Arts Supplement submitted and RD admitted. He’s taking a gap year, so he’ll join the Class of 2022.

14

Thank you all so much! @matrix32 @Daykidmom @prezbucky @TiggerDad !

Right now, I’m planning to apply SCEA to Harvard because my biggest dream is to go to Harvard-NEC. I’m planning on applying to HYPS (not M :wink: ), JHU-Peabody, Rochester (dual degree with Eastman, as my piano prof last year moved there), Northwestern (dual degree), probably U-Michigan and NYU, and U-Minnesota as a safety.

@TiggerDad : I never really knew about the Princeton dual degree program; thanks so much for introducing me to it!!

I have heard a lot about dual-degreeing, but not about double-majoring, especially in two vastly different fields. From what I know about double-majoring (not very much), you only get one “degree” upon graduation. Is it similar to a singular major except more classes?

15

Forgot about Eastman and Peabody-- both great as well. My son looked at all those, applied SCEA to Harvard/NEC, didn’t get into NEC, but decided to accept Harvard and be done (but of course, the applications for most of the conservatories were due December 1, so he still had to do those applications-- but withdrew from them after Dec. 15 when he heard from Harvard). He’s got a very good teacher at NEC though for lessons, amd Harvard Music Dept. has everything else-- very good Chamber and orchestra, as well as an excellent academic music dept. He’s thinking of a double concentration, which means you have an advisor knowledgeable in both fields (say, for example, music and Econ), take a few fewer classes than you would for a single concentration times two, and write a senior thesis combining the two fields (for example–funding for the arts or something like that). You end up with one bachelor’s degree. You could also do one concentration and then a secondary field, which is essentially a minor. Of course, that’s different than the dual degree program, in which you end up with the bachelor’s and the MM. In many other schools, a double major still just leads to one degree, but the two fields don’t have to be related, and either there is no thesis or you can do just one thesis in either field. There is often a slight reduction in classes if you double major, or some classes might be double counted. Either way, it DOES mean you probably have slightly fewer electives over the course of your college career, because of the requirements of the double major. For music majors (at Harvard and elsewhere), you can either do a thesis or a major perfirmance for your senior year. As you probably know, the dual degree program with NEC is 5 years.

16

One last thing: the Harvard/NEC program usually only take about 4 people a year. If you get into one of tHe other, you can still choose to go to that program or, of course, apply elsewhere.

17

@Daykidmom Why forget about Eastman and Peabody? Just curious

And thanks for the info on double majoring! Makes sense now

18

OP - Let me ask you this: are you intending on pursuing music professionally? If you’re not sure, are you 50/50, 30/70, 10/90 – which direction are you leaning strongly?

19

I’m 30/70 career-wise, as in 30 for music and 70 for Econ. Im not a sure about a career in music, but I love playing it and want to pursue it at a high level in college. Whether if double major or dual degree is better, then… I’m not really sure.

I know many people in dual degree programs but not double major programs and I haven’t really been exposed to the latter.

I just want to be able to discover and learn more about music at a high level in college. This is going to be my 2nd year studying with a professor at Northwestern, and I’m gaining a lot from the private lessons but want even more in the future.

My voice teacher has always discouraged me to pursue a musical career because of his own financial troubles. However, he continues to push me in studying difficult repertoire, which I greatly appreciate.

20

You are a perfect candidate for Carnegie Mellon University’s Bachelor of Humanities and Arts (BHA) Degree Program sponsored by the Dietrich College of Humanities and Social Sciences (DC) and the College of Fine Arts (CFA). Within one degree program, you can study both piano music performance and economics. My daughter’s former piano teacher majored in music at CMU and raved about how awesome their music department is there. With the interdisciplinary degree, you will get to study both topics of interest without having to struggle to double major elsewhere.

You can apply to CMU and also to HYPSM (and to financial and admission safeties) and see where you get accepted. I would definitely state for all applications that you plan to study piano music, because it will be the music department that will be eager to have someone who has won international and national awards in piano performance. If you only say you want to study economics, the piano background won’t look like a true interest, and you won’t have much to offer an economics department compared to students who have won national and international awards relating to business. Make sense?

Universities want to know how you are going to make them look good – if you enroll and continue competing in music and winning awards, only with their name attached as your university, that makes them look good. You have proven yourself already in piano music, that you can excel, so they can admit you confidently in anticipation of more success in the future. You haven’t yet proven yourself in economics. While it is fine to say you want to study that in addition to music, either as a minor or another major or as part of an interdisciplinary degree like at CMU, I think you would hurt your application if you just said you want to study economics alone and abandon all your talents and skills in piano.