Chances for top colleges

Chance Me / Match Me!
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<p>White male, upper middle class, NY public high school</p>

<p>SAT I: 2220 single sitting (770 M 720 CR 730 W)
SAT II: 800 math IC, 800 bio M, 770 Spanish
APs: World history(5), biology(5), USH (5), Lang (5)
Senior schedule: AP chem, AP Spanish, Pre calc, AP comp, AP macro, sci res, band
GPA: 98.68/100
Rank: N/a
Major Awards: 2011 Siemens Competition Regional Finalist (submitted new project this year), Co-author on a published research paper, National Merit Semifinalist, Bausch and Lomb honorary science award, National Spanish Exam gold medal (2x)</p>

<p>ECs: Science Research (500 hours), President of Latin Club, 4 Honors Societies, Jazz Band, 3 Season varsity athlete (XC/Swim/Track), 6x NYSSMA outstanding score. These are the main ones. No point in including the whole laundry list.</p>

<p>Essays: I feel like this category is my strong point. I suffer from a chronic medical condition, and wrote about how it changed my perspective on life. I talked about how it really sparked my interest in medicine and also helped me realize that no matter how mad you think your problems are, there is always someone who has it worse.</p>

<p>Letters of Rec: 1 from my Spanish teacher, cited me as "best in career"
1 from AP bio teacher, really good
1 from PI at Sloan-Kettering, def really food</p>

<p>Schools: Harvard (SCEA), Yale, Stanford, Brown, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Duke, Northeastern, U of Delaware</p>

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<p>Wow you put my credentials to shame! I think you have an excellent chance in getting into the Ivys but then again luck also plays a factor. Georgetown is a definite in and same with Delaware. I think Duke is a match for you too. Do not scoff at my credentials but chance me too please! Good luck with everything I am certain you will get into a top college!</p>

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<p>OP </p>

<p>What do you think your chances are at these schools? Just curious.</p>

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<p>Not to sound pretentious, but I think I should be accepted because I tried to show in my application that I’m really focused on science even though my resume has anything from science to sports to spanish, etc. I think I deserve acceptance if you ask me, or why would I bother applying to these schools?</p>

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<p>Given your interest in science, your research experience, and the top HS you attend, why are you not taking calc b/c or at least a/b or ap stats senior year? I doubt there are many unhooked candidates in the country who get into the top schools you have identified with just pre-calc (especially those with a science interest). This will be a red flag to admissions without a very good reason.</p>

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<p>MVP</p>

<p>Thanks for the response. Didn’t sound pretentious at all. Your stats and accomplishments are strong and application season is not the time for false modesty.</p>

<p>My view I see no major weaknesses in your statistics and your ECs are strong. One could argue that your SATs could be higher, but if you look at the stats for the incoming classes at … say HYPSM … your scores are right there.</p>

<p>Muckdog does raise a point about the lack of calc, and that is the only thing that gives me pause.</p>

<p>In any event, based on your stats, there is not a school in the US I would not recommend you to apply to. </p>

<p>As to admissions – as you may know, each of the Ivies (and Ivy Peers) have acceptance rates that are less than 20% of their applicants; many have rates lower than 10%. Many students with stats as strong as yours find themselves rejected from one or more of these schools. No one here how to predict who will get a ‘golden ticket’ at any school.</p>

<p>All you can do is apply to a number of them, AND make sure to apply also apply to schools whose acceptance rate approaches sanity as well as one or two legitimate safety schools.</p>

<p>Good luck</p>

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<p>@muckdogs: Wouldn’t the reason be that he just wasn’t on an advanced math track the past three years? (And if so, there probably isn’t any way to make it up now, is there?) In our school district the kids who jump ahead in math do so in middle school (so, they take algebra in 7th or 8th grade and then geometry). A regular “grade-level” math track in our high school would have algebra freshman year, geometry sophomore year, algebra II/trig junior year, and pre-calc senior year. In any case, this student certainly has enough demonstrated aptitude to have done very well on the SAT math tests.</p>

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<p>Sally 305,</p>

<p>I hope MVP does well the same as I do for everyone on this site, but this is a chance posting and given all the platitudes from others, I wanted to inject a dose of reality for him to consider. </p>

<p>MVP goes to an affluent school district in NY. These school districts are like the ones I am quite familiar with in NOVA. Almost everyone in the top half after six grade starts out with Algebra I in 7th and Geo in 8th. You then take Alg II as a frosh, progress to pre-calc as a soph, AB or B/C as a junior, and B/C or multi variable as a senior. Taking AP stats as a senior is considered taking the easy way out. Pre-calc is not even in that universe for a senior. </p>

<p>Given his high Math SAT score and the science research, I seriously doubt MVP took algebra I as a frosh. If so, that would be a huge counseling failure at his school. But even in the unlikely event this happened, he could have accelerated by taking a math class over the summer and jumping into calc as a senior. </p>

<p>You note the “regular” path at your school, but the honors path at your school is calc senior year, right. And the colleges MVP lists are the very top schools that even the best honors students who have taken the most challenging curriculums will have difficulty gaining admission to.</p>

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<p>^You are right, and clearly more familiar with the OP’s situation than I am. To answer your question, at our school the advanced path usually means calc AB junior year and calc BC or AP stats senior year (and I agree–stats is the easy way out). My son had algebra in 7th, geometry in 8th, algebra II/trig honors freshman year and so on, ending with AP stats as a senior (which turned out to be a mistake, since he hated it). He is now taking discrete mathematics as a college freshman. For the “regular” or slightly-advanced tracks at our school, there are honors versions of every class and also embedded honors offerings in the grade-level classes. </p>

<p>Even though my son was typical of high-achieving math students in our district, there are actually kids even more advanced than this–one of my daughter’s friends took pre-calc as a freshman, is in calc AB now, and will probably end up taking classes at the state flagship university (which also happens to be in our city) by senior year.</p>

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<p>Response to the math issue: sally305 hit it right on the nail.
In 7th grade, for some reason i wasnt placed on the advanced math track. By the time the teachers realized i belonged in honors, my guidance counselor said “it was too late,” and the kids are already preparing for the NYS regents exams, or whatever. I ended up in algebra I as a frosh, and geometry as a soph and then trig and now pre calc. I literally aced all of those, and got 100 on all the regents. I was put in the class with the accelerated kids of the grade below me, so it would still be the right course but slightly more challenging. I know this might set me back</p>

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<p>MVP1993,</p>

<p>What horrible counseling and am surprised your parents did not speak up. But in any event, hope this does not hold you back and am glad you recognize this issue. </p>

<p>My suggestion would be to think seriously about whether you really want to apply to Harvard SCEA and perhaps using an ED on a slightly less rigorous school (aren’t they all that way) such as Vandy, G’town or Duke. As a Duke grad, I know they will appreciate your research experience very much. Indeed, they used to have an essay question asking about research experience until last year when many people complained that it is unreasonable to expect HS kids to have this. Good luck!</p>

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<p>I don’t blame the parents. The same thing happened with my younger child. She isn’t a great test taker and did well, but not great, on math tests in 5th or 6th grade. I knew she would have a tough time with the teacher of our “advanced” middle-school math classes, who is hard to understand (very strong foreign accent) and does best with kids who just “get” the math without a lot of help (like my son). Not all kids have come into their own with math (or any other subject, for that matter) by the 7th grade, so what good would it do to push them?</p>

<p>Also, the guidance counselor in the OP’s case was just stating the facts. You can’t make up two years of math to become “advanced” in high school unless you double up, but that is not possible or advisable in most cases.</p>

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<p>sally305,</p>

<p>Unsurprisingly, the same thing happened to me for science. Except, I kind of lucked out. I ended up having to take the regulars track for that, and I was scheduled to take just regular chemistry for junior year, which probably would have made me less credible. However, the teacher of science research also happened to be the AP bio teacher. She knew my whole story and how i’m stuck in the regulars track. She sent this whole letter to the principal and the sci dept chairperson saying how good i was and they should let me take AP bio. Only problem was I needed chem as a pre-req. They saw the work I did that summer in the lab and jokingly said I probably should’ve taken AP bio in 4th grade. In the end they let me take AP bio and Chemistry at the same time junior year</p>

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<p>^Interesting. But here’s the thing: these details don’t matter to the vast majority of college, even the vast majority of very good colleges. Your only challenge is having to play “the game” perfectly to be competitive at the top schools you listed. You are a highly desirable candidate for 99% of the colleges out there.</p>

<p>I didn’t say this before, but if I were you I would also consider a few good LACs. Many of them do just as good a job, if not better, of preparing students for medical school, in a much less cutthroat environment. You might even get merit aid at a few of them (not that you need it). Do well and you will have your pick of top medical schools for your MD.</p>

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<p>Agree with Sally305 re your attractiveness to most of the colleges out there. But the issue is you do not want to attend those colleges. Also, although I love LACs in general, I am not sure they are such a good idea in your case because of your research bent. LACs generally do not have facilities for science research even remotely comparable to the privates you are aspiring to. </p>

<p>Great the science worked out. But this is a two sided coin because it shows when you wanted to accelerate in science you made waves and did so, but not with math. </p>

<p>On the math, I suggest that you still be wary of this issue for the very top schools. Because what they are left with is a very gifted math/science student who has not been remotely challenged in math and has stayed that course. There are plenty of students who come from lesser school districts that do not offer rigorous classes who self study for AP exams, including statistics and calculus. Others would have taken a math class in the summer to accelerate (especially pre-calc). Some might have asked to skip pre-calc and go right to calculus. At a minimum, many would have taken pre-calc and AP stats senior year. Do not expect a pass on this issue based on what happened in junior high. What happens in junior high is not destiny?</p>

<p>Bottom line is in my view you will likely be one of the most unique candidates of your background (rich affluent school district with horrible counseling). I suspect you will get admitted to one or more top schools while others will find it hard to overcome the math issue or compare you with kids from your peer school districts who lack the science research but have 5"s on AP Calc B/C and have taken multi-variable and vector calculus.</p>

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<p>sally305 and muckdogs,</p>

<p>I am fully aware that almost everyone who applies to top schools took super challenging courses, even if they werent offered they went out of their way to self-study or take a college class. But, I think even if I knew the impact it would have on college admissions, if i could go back to say, junior or even soph year, I wouldnt self-study. I just dont see a point. Why go out of my way to do something I dont want to do…just to have a fancy bumpersticker on my parents’ car? To me, its not worth it. If I get in to my dream schools, I get in. If i don’t, then I wasn’t meant to. Their loss anyway</p>

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<p>Yes apply anyways to the schools. You have a decent shot, and even if you do not get into an Ivy, I am certain you will get into a top school. Your credentials, even though you did not take “challenging enough” math courses, are good enough for most top 20 colleges! Good luck and do not let others discourage you!</p>

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<p>This is exactly right. And I use the bumpersticker analogy all the time. :slight_smile: Life is about a lot more than impressing the neighbors. Be yourself. Have options. You will thrive wherever you go.</p>