<p>
[quote]
ok, how is Berkeley a "slight reach?" It has one of the top 5 engineering programs in the country, and is ranked only one below Stanford. How is Stanford a "huge reach" and Berkeley a "high match"?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>By your logic you would also wonder why Harvard is so hard to get into. It's engineering program isn't very good but the school overall is still hard to get into. </p>
<p>I think I was right to call Berkeley a slight reach OOS. It's about as hard to get into OOS as Northwestern and JHU but no way is it harder. Stanford and Berkeley are on two entirely different selectivity levels. The fact that they offer comparable graduate level engineering doesn't change that.</p>
<p>"Stanford and Berkeley are on two entirely different selectivity levels."
^not as far as the engineering program goes. What is your source (again, engineering-wise)? Also, Cal only accepts around 12% OOS, less than JHU and NW.</p>
<p>How selective is the college? I do know that the U of M has the best, or one of the best, ChemE programs in the nation. Does anyone know about CivilE?</p>
<p>
[quote]
"Stanford and Berkeley are on two entirely different selectivity levels."
^not as far as the engineering program goes. What is your source (again, engineering-wise)? Also, Cal only accepts around 12% OOS, less than JHU and NW.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Usually people would assume that different majors at universities all have roughly the same selectivity. There are obviously notable exceptions like Wharton at Upenn and EECS at Berkeley, but you can't just assume that because a program is better it is harder to get into. The fact that engineering at Berkeley is one of their best programs does not make it more selective. Stanford is more selective than Berkeley, even out of state. Everyone knows that. A Stanford applicant with near perfect stats and no hooks wouldn't get into Stanford, but would get into Berkeley even OOS. If you want to challenge common knowledge then find sources yourself that say that Berkeley engineering is as difficult to get into as Stanford engineering. And selectivity isn't just based on the admissions rate. Berkeley has 12% admission OOS, so does that make it as selective as say Yale, which is around the same rate? Of course not.</p>
<p>^^ engineering is generally known to be much more difficult to get into at Berkeley.</p>
<p>Berkeley would be a reach OOS. The GPA is weak; the average is higher for in-staters. The ACT score is below average, though a 30 would be about average for in-state. The ECs are a bit weak -- little to do with engineering, no passion/focus, etc. And the OP is applying for a competitive major. Hell, even if he were in-state, Berkeley would be a reach.</p>
<p>
[quote]
^^ engineering is generally known to be much more difficult to get into at Berkeley.</p>
<p>Berkeley would be a reach OOS. The GPA is weak; the average is higher for in-staters. The ACT score is below average, though a 30 would be about average for in-state. The ECs are a bit weak -- little to do with engineering, no passion/focus, etc. And the OP is applying for a competitive major. Hell, even if he were in-state, Berkeley would be a reach.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Agreed, but my point is Stanford is an even bigger reach.</p>
<p>atomicfusion: True about Stanford being a big reach, I was simply saying that so is Berkeley. It would be a reach for him in any program OOS with his stats to begin with, and even more so for engineering, Berkeley's MOST COMPETITIVE program. Also, Cal is one of Harvard's main overlap schools according to an admissions officer there, if you were concerned about its selectivity and candidates. </p>
<p>OP: UCLA is a reach for you OOS for the same reasons as Berkeley, though they aren't quite as competitive. Don't know enough about Rose-Hulman to say.</p>
<p>The typical Cal admit and the typical Berkeley admit are worlds apart. 90% of the applications at Cal come from CA public schools, some of the worst education in this Country with some of the most inflated grades and 86 vals per school. These are not peer undergrad schools. The fact that half of the Cal candidates lob an app at Harvard is meaningless. Half the candidates at many schools did and they didn't have a chance either.</p>
<p>ok, many people on here already know your stance on the UCs from other threads, so it really means nothing. anyone with an eighth of a brain knows that Berkeley is difficult to get into, even if it isn't quite on par with stanford and harvard. also, an "overlap" school means that students who were admitted to harvard turned them down for cal. why don't you just respond to the OP instead of stalking me on every thread and attacking everything i say. bug the **** off.</p>