Chances - Regular Decision

<p>White Male
GPA - 3.93 weighted
Class Rank - 40 out of 331 (approx. top 12%)
SAT - 1950
ACT - 29
SATIIs - 570 and 590 (I know, those hurt, retaking but I do not even think they are mandatory for W&M if I remember correctly)
Classes - All honors since sophomore year (forced to take a couple level 2 classes at my first school freshman year), and took AP English last year and got a 4 on the exam. I am taking AP Government and Politics, AP Statistics, and AP Economics this year.
Activities:
- Concert Band for three years (1st seat for one), Upper level Symphony Band (I auditioned to get in) - Alto Sax
- Jazz Band for 3 years - Alto Sax
- Varsity Ski Team - Freshman year before I switched schools
- Ski team for a mountain in Vermont through VARA for 3 years
- History National Honors Society for 2 years
- Worked at a beach club all summer - 40 hrs/week
- Work at lawn company throughout year when needed
- Sufficient Community Service including soup kitchens, fundraiser for my music program, and volunteering through rec department.
Other: I also, cannot remember if W&M is need-blind, but I am not applying for need based financial aid. </p>

<p>Right now I am considering this a "fit" school if I had to group it into a category. GPA and rank could rise by end of 1st semester because I think I am doing quite well right now, but I do not want to jinx anything. But just let me know what you think - Thanks!</p>

<p>PS - Any other Qs let me know.</p>

<p>In state or out of state?</p>

<p>Can you give a course schedule for every year of high school, along with the grades you received in each class?</p>

<p>What were your math and verbal scores for the SAT? W&M doesn’t use writing.</p>

<p>Do you hold leadership positions in any of your extracurricular activities?</p>

<p>In what subjects did you take those SAT Subject Tests? W&M doesn’t require them; I’m just curious. (You also may want to avoid submitting those to W&M).</p>

<p>Out of state</p>

<p>Wont list all classes and grades for time, but 4 yrs english, math up to precalc and stats, french up to 4, us history and world history, chem, bio, physics, anatomy & physiology, marine science. As in most with a couple Bs in junior year. </p>

<p>No specific leadership roles besides minor ones in work and community service.</p>

<p>Took english and math 1. Retaking english, us history, and i think french instead of math.</p>

<p>gheffty93- Good luck to you in the application process. W&M uses a holistic approach to admissions and you have some good qualifications. However, my impression is that you may want to reconsider categorizing W&M as a “fit” and consider it a “reach.” This is not to discourage you, but to help make sure you have a good overall balance in your college choices. </p>

<p>William & Mary is highly competitive for all students, but as a state school it is considerably more challenging to gain admittance from out of state. I believe the OOS state acceptance rate is something like 28% which makes it a reach for most students (in-state is not much better, but low 30’s percentile?). 80% of those admitted were in the top 10% of their high school class…which means only 20% were not. </p>

<p>What are your M and CR scores? W&M does not look at Writing (and SAT 2’s are not required so I would advise not sending them as they stand since they don’t strengthen your app). The middle 50% of students scored between about 1250 and 1450 on M/CR SAT. For OOS, I think the middle 50% is more like 1390-1450 (at least based on something I read here on CC a few months ago - rough estimate). </p>

<p>The College also looks at strength of schedule and likes to see/use as a indicator of a challenging hs school curriculum the following classes: completion of a 4th year of the same foreign language, Calculus and Physics (preferably AP when possible). These are not requirements, but they do seem to look to see that students have taken highly rigorous courses across both humanities and science/math. Again, your classes look strong, but maybe not the very strongest they will see. However, coursework is also viewed within the context of your high school so if you’ve taken some of the toughest classes offered and/or your hs is known for being very strong and competitive, your “rigor factor” would “improve.” </p>

<p>Make sure your essays, teacher recs, supplement, etc… are as excellent as they can be. Did you have a chance to interview? It is not “held against you” if you didn’t, but it could be a plus factor if you did and it went well. </p>

<p>If you really love the school, by all means apply! Just be realistic and understand that the school is a tough admit for everyone. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Note: I am a random dude from the internet. My only real qualification for giving advice is that I was admitted to and graduated from W&M. I’m not going to make any predictions, because there are far too many unknown variables (especially since you’re applying from out of state, which can be a bit of a crap shoot in our present year), but I will point out the strengths and weaknesses that I see in your application.</p>

<p>I’ll tackle the testing first. You didn’t answer my question about your breakdown on the SAT (which I doubt falls outside of the mid-50% anyway, unless you had a pretty bad writing score), so I’ll just focus on your ACT score. You’re an out-of-state applicant who falls in the mid-50% range of scores. Keeping in mind that only 35% of the applicant pool is reserved for out-of-state applicants and a pretty clear majority of applications actually come from out of state, you ideally want to beat the mid-50%, not all within it. I’d err on the side of recommending that you re-take the ACT or the SAT at this point, because you have nothing to lose by doing so except the money for the test. W&M super scores (meaning, they combine your best scores from the various tests you’ve taken), so the absolute worst case scenario is that you manage to do worse on on the test; even in this case, W&M still considers your best score. This ultimately helps both you and the institution: if you manage to score higher and they admit you, you get in–and they get to brag about how awesome their admitted applicants performed on a test that only predicts how well students perform during the first semester of college. So, suck it up, study in your free time instead of playing Battlefield 3 (or whatever it is that you kids do in your free time these days–although, you should definitely spend some quality time with Battlefield 3 <em>after</em> you retake the test, because it’s awesome), and retake the ACT or the SAT before you apply–or, even after you apply. You can certainly send in updated scores, even after you have already sent in the main part of your application. Decisions aren’t due until April, so you have <em>a lot</em> of time to get those scores up higher.</p>

<p>In terms of your academics, you’ve got some strengths but also a couple of “red flags” to to speak that might cause some level of angst among admission officers, a group that really loves using statistics about their admitted students to prove how awesome their office is. There is a number in your profile that is going to make the admission officers who read your application grumble and grind their teeth: 12%. From everything I’ve read and heard, it seems to be the case that it’s pretty important, especially for out of state students, to fall within the top 10% of their class. I don’t know the specifics of your school, and I don’t know how likely that you’re going to be able to make the leap into the top 10% of your class by the time you submit your application, but the best piece of advice I can give you is to focus on your grades over your next two semesters. Otherwise, the only other “red flag” I see is your lack of Calculus. It’s too late now, but you really should have taken Calculus instead of Statistics. It smells of taking the easy way out.</p>

<p>In terms of extracurricular activities, yours are fine, but don’t really represent anything all that spectacular. I’d say that you’re clearly involved outside of the classroom–in that you don’t spend your free time in your parent’s basement hacking away at orcs and other beastly things in World of Warcraft until the wee hours of the morning. Would you have been better off if you had grown to understand your paraplegic older sister by starting a non-profit organization to end world hunger and save the whales? I’m almost certain that the admission officers would have literally been fighting each other in order to use the “ADMIT” stamper on your application. To be serious for a moment, you’ve done some enriching things outside of the classroom, but they’re not going to blow anybody away. You could have done more, but I’m sure they also see a lot of applicants who have done far, far less than you. If there are any remaining opportunities to get some real leadership on your application before you apply, though, you would serve yourself well to do so–and not just because it’ll make your application look better. W&M students are leaders inside and outside of the classroom, and if you want to fit in with the rest of the community, you’re going to need to be willing to take the lead more than occasionally.</p>

<p>Again, I’m not going to make any predictions based on what you’ve given me, because pure luck would be the only thing to which I’d attribute any accuracy. I’m sorry if any of this was overly blunt, but I tend to think it’s best not to obfuscate the reality of the situation: things are incredibly competitive for out-of-state students applying to highly selective schools like William & Mary. I’ve tried to suggest some things that will strengthen your application and make you more competitive. Specifically, if I were you, I would:</p>

<p>-Retake the SAT and SAT, shooting for mid-1400s on the SAT, or a 32+ on the ACT. Both of these goals are achievable, given your current scores. They will require hard work and study on your part, however. (Although neither of these tests is particularly hard, given the right preparation.)
-Focus on your school work, and try your best to break into the top 10%.
-Seek out a more active leadership role in your extracurricular activities.
-Start writing your required essay now. When you have a rough draft, have your English teacher read it and give you feedback. Give it to your friends who are gifted writers, and have them do the same. Put it away for a couple of weeks, and then come back and rewrite it completely. Seek more feedback. Rinse & repeat, seeking as much advise from teachers and peers as you can.
-Meet with your guidance counselor and any other teacher who is writing letters of recommendation for you. Give them a list of everything you’ve accomplished to date of which you think they should be aware, and make sure they know exactly what your goals are, where you are applying, and why you want to go to these schools. Make absolutely sure that you get excellent recommendations from the people who are writing on your behalf.</p>

<p>Anyway, I hope all of this is helpful. Best of luck to you, and please let me know if I can clarify anything I’ve written.</p>

<p>Edit: I’d also agree with travelfun that you should probably reclassify W&M as a “reach” as opposed to a fit. If you were an in-state male, it would be much closer to a “fit”. As an out-of-state applicant, though, the reality is that it is a gamble. I won’t say anything to discourage you from applying, though, if dropping money on an application fee won’t hurt you.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the advice - I am retaking subject tests, but I do not think I am retaking ACTs or SATs since in total I have taken them 5 times and realistically I cannot see doing better. I cannot stand math to e honest, and I was taking honors calc at the beginning of this year, but I wanted 4 years of french and to do that I ha to drop calc and pick up stats to get a math. I have been told that stats vs calc shouldnt hurt me</p>

<p>I am sorry that your math teachers failed you so badly. I <em>love</em> math, and this is coming from a humanities major.</p>

<p>Anyway, best of luck.</p>

<p>I just want to add that my OOS daughter wasn’t in the top 10% of her class and was accepted to W&M early decision (she was in the 50s out of 440 kids.) </p>

<p>However, she did have a 1440/1600 on her SATs and a 32 on her ACTs. </p>

<p>Good luck. I hope it turns out well for you! :)</p>

<p>Good luck, Gheffty - </p>

<p>Just to clarify one point. This is from the W&M website: “We recommend that students take four math courses culminating in Calculus, regardless of prospective major.” </p>

<p>I agree that out of state admissions are really difficult - it’s probably more accurate to label W&M as a reach than as a “fit” school. </p>

<p>Best of luck in the admissions process!</p>