<p>I am not sure I really have a chance at W&L but here it goes:</p>
<p>1) Ranked 33 out of 229 at very competitive Roman Catholic high school in New York (Hudson Valley area)
2) Deans List/ NHS/ "A" average
3) Volunteer work at my church
4) Lifeguard in the summer
5) 650 on Biology SAT II
6) Will probably earn in the 600-650 range on all parts of the SATI exams (according to the practice ones I have taken)</p>
<p>I am one of the few people actually interested in W&L BECAUSE of the area. I love to fly fish and need to be in a place where I can get outdoors and do my thing. Problem is, I am not terribly liberal, so schools such as Bennington, etc. are just to out there for me.
Sigh.</p>
<p>There are a couple very important things to consider. W&L is very Greek-oriented, which can be a good or a bad thing depending on who you are. Many people feel it is very isolating, because there are so many fraternities and everyone sorta gets forced to be friends only with the guys in their house. Also, after freshman year, interaction with girls is really weird because you only see them out at parties when everyone's pretty much hammered. There's not much genuine interaction between the sexes because the sorority houses are way far away from the fraternity houses, and then after sophomore year everyone lives off campus, sometimes way out in the country. I see this as a bad thing, but some people love it.</p>
<p>Morgan, Morgan... such a downer on the Greek system! I personally love it... instead of hearing things like "Oh, there's a party at Jesse's house..." "Who the hell is Jesse?", you hear "Party at HOBES!" and everybody knows. It adds so much more organization, not only among parties but just in the whole social scene itself. Maybe it's not for everybody but I really, really like it.</p>
<p>I agree with you there. It does make for good organized huge parties. But Hobes is a perfect example of too many people in one place. I freakin hate it in there; you can't even attempt to hold an actual conversation with anyone because it's so damn crowded. Breathing is even difficult. I guess if you're a freshman, I see where you're coming from, but there's a reason you don't see many upperclassmen at parties like that...</p>
<p>Frankly the Greek system is absolutely great as a freshman during fall term. After that, people start to get fed up with it, usually by Junior year. How many Juniors and Seniors did you really see at rush events? There's just so much BS to deal with that it gets tiresome and you don't see the point of it anymore.</p>
<p>Oh also, it's going to cost you over $4,000 a year to be in a fraternity. This money is not covered by financial aid. This causes students of lower income (who usually happen to bring all the diversity that the school is pulling for so hard) to only associate with each other, starting freshman year, because they know they can never afford to join a fraternity. Everyone else rushes and joins their fraternities, then sophomore year everyone is separated. The international and minority students live near each other in Gaines and all the rich white kids (including me) live in their fraternities. There is really no interaction with these kids from vastly different backgrounds. That's part of what college should be about, but the Greek system really does hamper this interaction.</p>
<p>I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there... (in my best Bill Lumbergh voice)</p>
<p>As a poor freshman, I pay very little of my tuition because I can't. Our household income is about what tuition is, and I have two older brothers both in college. I have not seen this rich/poor divide at all, unless I'm missing something. I have one friend that is reluctant to join a frat because of costs but then heard about the national scholarships and is feeling much better. I myself have no chance of being able to afford frat dues but am pretty confident I will be able to with a scholarship from the nationals (and hopefully a little help from the IFC? maybe? long shot...). </p>
<p>But you are correct in saying that it is NOT covered by financial aid. Fraternities have a lot of money, however, and can often cover you if you have need. I have a friend that has a full scholarship for dues... and the frat just doesn't charge him rent because he is poor - so he's actually making out better his sophomore year than his freshman. </p>
<p>It's not all bad, and don't let money dissuade you from doing anything. </p>
<p>And with regards to HOBES - it was just an example, and yeah, I don't like it either there. I don't know about it being all freshmen there though, as I didn't recognize much of anyone... maybe my class is bigger than I thought? I was sure at the time that it was mostly sophomores/upperclass. There are plenty of fun, lower key parties, such as the ones at your own frat, Morgan, or other assorted gatherings such as small band parties, hall crawls, monday night football...</p>
<p>Sottilde (or can I call you by your real name?) is right. The divide actually isn't that noticeable, outside maybe of what car you drive. Every fraternity I got a bid from last year promised to work the financial thing out with me (that was my #1 hurdle to pledging) and the one I ended up at has kept its promise. Anyone who doesn't join the Greek system for financial reasons has only themselves to blame for not trying to work it out and giving up right away. I am by no means one of the rich white kids and I almost made that mistake myself last year. I just wish this information was more out there so people wouldn't assume right away that they couldn't afford to join a fraternity and isolated themselves from the start.</p>
<p>Don't know if this is really something you can quantify, but do the vast majority of the students feel the way sottilde and you do about the greek system? and is their a significant minority that is troubled by it?</p>
<p>There are a few troubled by it... I know one, personally - but only one: the one I mentioned before. He got an email about scholarship opportunities and I encouraged him to look deeply into what each house could offer him. He's not so worried anymore. </p>
<p>In terms of majorities, I'm pretty sure the majority can afford fraternity dues (rich kids :S ) but for those of us that can't... there are real, viable options. The last thing any frat wants(and this actually applies to the university as a whole) is for someone to miss an opportunity because of money. There are almost always funds available.</p>
<p>rignolinr, you'll like the outing club here!! and bmulez, I personally get a very positive vibe about the greek system from the students here - but again, that could just be me. and lastly, I just wanna throw this out there for the girls: there is also financial help for the sororities, though the help is not nearly as extensive as some of the fraternities can offer - so you can count on making some contributions</p>
<p>The sororities offer very little in the way of financial help. One of my friends applied for the only srat scholarship the school offers, and got it, but it wasn't nearly enough (1/3 of the total dues, or something). The srats themselves cannot offer money to PNMs (it's seen as bribery or something. The rules governing sorority rush are slightly ridiculous). For that reason, there are far more girls who don't go greek for monetary reasons than boys.</p>
<p>If there are more girls who don't go greek as compared to boys and the M/f ratio is roughly 50/50, then why does the admin. say it's about 80% for both? </p>
<p>I was greek (not at W&L, although my sorority does currently have a chapter there) x number of years ago and 2 of my chapter sisters received scholarships from our Nationals.</p>
<p>bmulez: Fall term freshmen are, of course, not troubled by the Greek system. This is perfectly natural as fall term frosh year is like heaven on earth. Everyone is incredibly nice, but this changes significantly during winter term when upperclassmen haze the balls off of the freshmen for all the crap they had to deal with fall term. Believe it or not, I loved fall term, too. Unfortunately it's just a completely unrealistic look at Greek life. Excitement peaks fall term Frosh year, then hits rock bottom Winter term, then Sophomore year it still pretty much sucks because of rush. I know of several people who, like you, thought the system was great as a freshman, but now that they see the real nitty gritty of it, they can't stand it.</p>
<p>But, ibleedorangeandblue does make a great point about the outing club. Definitely some of the most legit people on campus. The "positive vibe" for the Greek system he mentions, though, is a thinly veiled facade.</p>
<p>MorganGH: thanks for the response, I'm not actually a student at W&L yet, I just got in EDI. I was asking to try and gage exactly what it would be like. Also, in the past you talked about your frat being different than the others. Not sure if you can really answer this but, are you refering to (in this post and Rush) your experience with the greek system or the way you see it affecting other people?</p>