You might gently suggest “what’s the hurry”? and encourage her not to rush graduation. It’s only a semester, and that final one might be even be a fun one, without the pressure of piling on classes. But it sounds like she’s ready to move on from school, you may not have a lot of control over whether she finishes up early.
In which case, take a deep breath. And reread @blossom’s post #17. She says it all.
I guess I’m unclear on why you would support living expenses for a child in medical school, but not a child studying to be a chef. If you have friends and family who are happily making a living in the field, it’s a realistic career choice for her.
Peri-see my first post in this thread. Many parents believe cooking is not a “good” choice, while med school IS. Just as we see so many parents on CC who dictate their kids’ majors because of the “Return on investment”. It’s a dangerous game these parents play. My older D and her father are still dealing with the fallout of his unwillingness to support her decision to switch from a business degree to culinary classes at a community college.
I don’t understand parents who think it’s a good idea to make a child “suffer” for their chosen career.I guess the idea is that they’ll realize it’s a dumb choice and go back to school for a “real” career. Like the OP, we know many people in the restaurant industry (H’s best friend is one of them). None of them are struggling, by any means, even the ones, like H’s friend, who didn’t even finish college. They may not make the kind of money a person in a “good” career like a medical doctor can make, but they’re doing fine. Few people who really want it stick with the restaurant business as waitresses and hosts.
What Bopper said. Finish her degree. Add some nutrition and food science courses if possible. Also add some business courses. What if she was to do a combo Masters program with the CIA and Cornell Hotel?
Periwinkle, we realize how this appears but it is not quite that cut and dried. The path to becoming a physician is one that requires many many years of schooling, during which the student simply cannot work part time. Even if we were to cover living expenses, within reason, during medical school, our D would still be responsible for tuition and would be graduating with over 200k debt to her name. And that is a conservative estimate for a student from our home state in which most med students,even the top ones, have to go out of state and pay OOS tuition. The path to becoming a chef is very different, does not require any formal schooling like medicine, and if our D wishes to attend culinary school she can do that at a community college (we also have some reputable programs in our area) while living in her childhood bedroom. We have already funded 4 years of undergrad in a vibrant, cosmopolitan city in a single apartment that is quite nice. If she wishes to pursue a graduate degree in hospitality management, or an MBA that would also give her the necessary credentials to move up in a large food & beverage organization, or give her the skills to run her own restaurant one day, which she also cites as a goal, we would certainly contribute financially to living expenses while pursuing that.
OP-- I think you can be direct about the change in plans re: support.
SSeamom- I don’t think the OP is “punishing” the D because of the chosen career. I think it’s realistic in a family which has to make choices (as most of us do) that subsidizing living expenses during a four year grad program, especially if the med school has student housing which many do, is a different budgetary item than supporting a kid for an unspecified period of time, in a potentially expensive city (London? SF?) without a clear endgame.
The endgame for med school is graduation. Then the kid lives on a resident’s salary like every other new doc (as modest as that is).
We never “punished” our kids for their somewhat unconventional decisions after undergrad. But a kid who wants to be a nursery school teacher (just to pick a random example) after getting a BS in engineering can’t expect to live like an engineer on a nursery school teacher’s salary. You want to work for Legal Aid after law school? fantastic and noble. But the bank of mom and dad isn’t there to keep you in sushi and a doorman apartment (like your friends working in BigLaw).
Blossom, you have summed up the situation perfectly. We are certainly not “punishing” our D. However there are certain realities that accompany career choices, and I think it would be a disservice to our D to allow her to try her hand at a culinary career without"allowing" her to also live on the salary the field provides. Obviously the Bank of Mom and Dad is not for life, and informed decisions tend to be the best ones. I don’t feel we are a family that views a college education purely as a “ROI” transaction - I would think that the fact that we have fully funded one child’s undergrad psychology degree and are also fully funding a younger sibling’s political science degree would certainly counter that argument ;).
blossom-OP is now saying they would help with a hospitality MANAGEMENT degree, but not CIA. In other words, as long as it’s management or business type restaurant work, that’s fine, but they won’t support or pay for actual cooking skills education. Again, it’s about the prestige of the job within the industry that gets the support.
I didn’t see OP say anywhere that the D wants to live high on the hog while working her first job as a waitress or line cook. But I don’t think it’s right or fair to say “we’ll only finance a certain post-high type of degree or you’re on your own”. That is very different from paying for a kid’s fancy apartment. That’s the issue I was addressing above.
Blenheim- I agree with your approach 100%.
No Sseamom, it is not about prestige, it is about broader opportunities. Obviously I am no expert in masters degrees in hospitality management vs a degree from CIA, and perhaps I need to self educate a bit. But keep in mind I am talking about a child who has done a sudden 180 degree turn in career goals, versus your child who apparently has been consistent with her desire to work in the culinary field for a prolonged period of time. Being that my child has not, I believe allowing for yet another 180 change in career goal somewhere down the line is the prudent path for my D at this time. I am not making judgments about the merits of one career path over another, which is how you seem to be interpreting my posts.
Sseamom, I don’t think prestige is the issue, rather, the viability of the training. Culinary school is expensive, the average chef salaries are low. OTOH culinary management training – with a focus on finance and business – offers OP’s daughter valuable skills she can also put in place in a non-culinary setting, if she decides the field isn’t for her.
I think it’s a smart discussion. It’s important to look at ROI when it comes to professional training. There are times, when it’s simply a highly questionable investment. OP has already paid plenty for her daughter’s undergrad education, and she wants her child to understand the financial realities of the next step.
The D may have no interest in living high on the hog while in training. But unless she decides that she’s going to start her food career in Urbana or Cincinnati or Gatlinburg it’s likely she will need parental support. And i don’t think it’s out of line for a parent to resist paying rent in SF or NY or DC if it’s only the beginning of a long journey requiring parental supplements.
I know young doctors from all walks of life. But none of them need parental support starting July 1 post grad. None. You can be doing a residency at Cedars Sinai or NYU or Brigham (all located in high price areas in LA, NY and Boston) but you will be self-supporting, living in resident housing close to the hospital with no need for a car (and indeed, no place to park it in NY or Boston). You will eat three meals a day in the hospital and you will have minimal expenses.
How many years must a parent budget support of their 20 something child???
And to add a bit of levity to this discussion, when our daughter was last home, she asked my husband, “why do you and mom still live here? It is so boring.” She has gotten used to her cosmopolitan big city life, and now finds the life we live in suburbia to be “boring.” Of course it is the fact that we have stayed in this boring little community in the starter home we bought the year we were married that has enabled us to provide her and her sibling with a fully funded undergraduate degree in the major of their choice. I may be her mother and I love her dearly, she is an extremely intelligent young lady when it comes to book smarts, and has been incredibly hard-working and high achieving for many years. However I also feel that she may need a swift kick in the “you know what” regarding some realities of grown-up life, especially when she is making comments like the foregoing while simultaneously entertaining a career that isn’t likely to afford her even the life we live now, that she considers so “boring!”
Many/most kids in their early 20s are snotty to their parents. No worries: in a few years you will grow up and she will find you “wise” and smart.
The funny thing is, she wasn’t being snotty at the time - she was truly perplexed as to why we didn’t just move someplace more “happening.”
How interesting that it’s assumed that I meant for the OP and spouse to pay all expenses for the student until she is established. I simply think that if they are willing to pay for one kind of post undergrad study that calling another unworthy isn’t the way to go. I’m not saying anyone needs to support their child forever. But I feel there’s an inherent unfairness in picking and choosing which career a parent will support financially. For all we know, the D assumed that since med school was acceptable for (some) future expenses paid by mom and dad, so would additional schooling of another kind.
My D lived at home for a short time after deciding to work in the restaurant industry, but then she moved into a shared apartment outside of Seattle. Eventually she moved into her own place, when she could afford it. Who says the OP’s kid can’t do something like that? Maybe that’s what she has in mind. It’s not uncommon. It’s how lots of young people start out.
As for “boring”. Both of my kids have spent some time back in our smaller hometown but ended up coming back out here to the “big city”. But, living in a city has made them realize that it simply has more to offer than a small town with little diversity, little do culturally and isn’t as close to the many outdoor activities they both love. Their choices were easy. They are willing to live more simply to afford living in the city. Again, lots of people do it. None of this has to be either or.
Sseamom, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. We certainly expect and hope our D does something like your daughter after she completes undergrad if she is no longer interested in pursing medicine!! I think that would be great and open her eyes to many valuable experiences, and give her a chance to try out a restaurant career and live the lifestyle. However, that being said,I do believe there is quite a big difference in offering to shoulder a small portion of the cost of a 7-8 year course of study (including internship and residency) that is absolutely necessary to become a practicing physician. There is absolutely no other path. However, there are many other paths to becoming a chef other than attending the CIA.
I agree with your approach OP. I would explain that I have spent for 4 years of college and while I might be willing to help someday, I am not paying for culinary school or for her living expenses beyond the first few months after graduation (or wherever you draw the line) if she is not going to graduate school. But also that it is her life and you will support her choices. I would be open to having a kid live at home and not charge rent to try something like cooking. I would also say that you want to save the money in case she changes her mind and decides to go back to graduate school. Yes, you are saying you will pay for grad school but not culinary school, but one is moving ahead in the path she previously chose and the other is starting over.
One of my kid’s expressed interest in dropping out of college and becoming a chef. One of his friends did just that. Got a job in a restaurant and moved up to a sous chef kind of position. Got burned out in about 6 months and went in a completely different direction. My son realized the lifestyle (nights, weekends, crappy pay, working for someone else for a long time) was not for him and woke up to the difference between enjoying cooking for yourself or friends and cooking in a restaurant. .
What is she doing this summer? Can she get a restaurant job? That may change her mind.
She may also just need a break. The reality of going straight from UG to medical school (which, if she already took MCAT may have been her plan) may be overwhelming.
I would encourage her to do both semesters next year. Maybe there is a way you can incentivize that plan
My friend’s son wanted to be a chef, after graduating college. He worked in a French restaurant for 6 months or so. He realized the chefs had horrible hours, little pay, and decided not to pursue chef school in NY.
Nothing like real life experience to teach one realititie
Mom2and, my husband I do suspect part of this is her need for a break after quite a few years of achieving one goal, only to have another even more challenging one waiting right after it. She has been the typical high achieving student since grade school, graduating top of her class in our city’s most challenging high school college prep program, gaining acceptance to multiple top ranked universities, and working hard to keep her grades up in a very challenging curriculum at a university where that is not an easy task. And yes, the MCAT was taken now because the plan was to go right from undergrad to medical school. Frankly, I have often wondered how long she could keep this up, and i would be lying if I didn’t say a part of me is glad she has finally “cracked” a bit, and is allowing herself to slow down and consider other career - and life - possibilities other than the one she set her sights on when she was 8 years old.
I would like my D to not go from the single mindedness she has had about medicine until now, and simply be the same way about becoming a chef. Finish her undergrad with good grades, and go out and explore the many career possibilities available in this world to a young woman with her whole life ahead of her. Yes, I am okay with that including a culinary career if that is what she truly wants. But only after she has lived the life and experienced the lifestyle, just as she has with medicine and the long hours in the lab, hundreds of hours of hospital volunteering and physician shadowing. I think she is the kind of oerson who must always have a goal, and once she realized medicine was not going to be it, the goal became being the female Anthony Bourdain. I don’t think she knows how to operate any other way.