<p>My kid recently saw a big cheater and is under lots of stress. the kid doesn't know what to do they told the teacher but since the teacher didn't see it they can't do nothing. I think our kid should tell the cheating group. Their scared and feel bad about kicking out a kid whose a senior and hurting their life. should i make them tell cuz they wanna but are scared</p>
<p>Some professors will go to a student and tell him that he is facing a potential honor charge, and if he agrees to drop the class (or accept a F), the student has agreed to not file charges. </p>
<p>I believe there is also a process where a student can talk to an honor advisor informally about what they know.</p>
<p>thats a thought charlie the teacher already said their giving the kid a 0 on final. the teacher called the cheating panel they said if my kid don’t tell they won’t be kicked out for cheating by not telling but its highly reccomended. mrs. knucklehead</p>
<p>Where is the “stress” coming from? The Honor Code is in place to report offenses if desired (although it does not <em>require</em> reporting of individual events) - or faculty can also make their own determinations as whether or not to report or to address the issue themselves within their class. The code is there to stop the behavior and reinforce an environment safe from dishonesty.</p>
<p>It sounds as if the professor 1) is already aware that cheating took place, 2) addressed the matter internally with a failed grade, and 3) reported the infraction to the Honor Committee. </p>
<p>The Honor Code is there to be a serious check and balance on dishonest student behavior. Reporting can be done by either students or faculty. If your son’s goal was to be sure the Honor Code is upheld and be sure the incident was reported, then that seems to have already been successfully accomplished. </p>
<p>@grp2013 I can see where there would be stress. If I understand correctly, the HC can’t do anything unless the person who saw the infraction files the complaint (in this case the student and not the prof)</p>
<p>@TV4caster My assumption was that a professor would have to have proof as well in order to fail a student (as was reported here) - and that wouldn’t be done lightly. Per item #1 of the Honor System FAQ faculty can report HC violations:</p>
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<p>So, I thought the HC would take a faculty report (especially when faculty has also punished the student for the infraction) just as it would a student report. Is this not the case?</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.virginia.edu/honor/faq/#one”>http://www.virginia.edu/honor/faq/#one</a></p>
<p>@grp2013 The OP was said that the prof did not see anything and that only the student did. The prof failed the student based on that report. </p>
<p>@TV is correct. My kid saw the cheater cheat numerous times in several different ways and told the teacher. The teacher called the HC with our kid in the room and told them what happened. They said that since only our kid saw the violation that only they could file a complaint. The HC told the teacher that they were free to take their own action based on what they believed. Because of that the teacher gave the kid an F on the final.</p>
<p>Okay, got it. But the kid has had a punishment in receiving an F on a final, so I’m curious why there has to be more. Is the goal here specifically to get the kid expelled? Or simply to have him reported, have a consequence, and hopefully stop the behavior? </p>
<p>@grp2013 the goal is to do what is right cuz the honor code says student who sees cheating should do a cheating violation. He’s scared his teacher will be mad and think he’s not honest enough if he doesn’t turn in the kid since that what the honor court says to do. mrs k.</p>
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@Knuckle I think that’s a very bad interpretation of the Honor System. </p>
<p>Let me say it as if I were talking to my own son on this: “Son, You witnessed someone cheat, and they were punished with a failing grade. You say you want to ‘do what’s right.’ Well, what is ‘right’ here? A failing grade, and more scrutiny toward a student who cheated - which may make them learn the appropriate lesson. Or a $250,000 fine (4 years of out of state tuition) and expulsion from school right before their final semester? If they have a job lined up for after graduation, they’ll now lose it as well. You will in essence be dramatically impacting their life for the negative, and most likely the lives of their family. Do NOT take that responsibility lightly. What is “right?” You better be darn sure the offense was egregious enough to warrant the outcome and impact on this student if you go down the Honor System route. If you believe it to be so, then you’ll need to stand up and do it. But if you can’t face them and tell them why the crime was this serious (as you would expect of someone else if the roles were reversed), if you are doing this simply because you ‘don’t want a teacher to be mad’ at you (which they would not be - and, you’re not in 3rd grade anymore), and if the actions of someone else that don’t truly affect you personally are seriously stressing you out, then I’m worried about you and we need to help you work on putting things in proper perspective. Adult life is hard and is filled with gray areas and the requirement to make rational decisions in complicated situations while considering all the implications of your decisions - this is a great example of that. The Honor Code is in place to support you when you feel it is warranted. But it is neither a requirement to report every infraction nor is it in place to make it easy to anonymously get students punished - because the punishment is severe. Doing what’s right means choosing the path wisely.”</p>
<p>And to answer your original question in the top post of: “should i make them tell?” Absolutely Not. This is not your decision to make. Your child is an adult - they will need to live with the consequences of this decision, not you.</p>
<p>Egregious enough??? Cheating is cheating. There is an honor code in place. Now we are talking about degrees? Makes no sense. When you enter the school you understand what he honor code is. He made a decision to cheat, and he should be able to deal with the consequences. </p>
<p>First thanks everyone</p>
<p>grp, it wouldnt be 250000 at most they would need 1 more semester and why couldnt it be instate. Nobody is taking it lightly. The offense was as “egregious” as it could be. Good word you made me look it up. 
Also the new honor code isnt just to kick kids out they now can suspend for 1 year. Also I wouldnt make them tell I probably worded that bad. They do listen tho and I could help steer them thats what I meant. </p>
<p>charlie- the professor didnt want to do that. </p>
<p>@BB
Well, certainly you could look at it that way if you don’t want logic to cloud the issue. But an exasperated glance at a neighbor’s paper during a frustrating exam vs an entire term paper/project created by someone else and turned in under your name are vastly differing degrees of intent and deceit. Just as sampling a grape from a display in a grocery is vastly different than stealing a car. Yes, both are wrong. But should they both carry equal penalty? But hey, stealing is stealing, right? Thank goodness our legal system doesn’t operate on this fabulous premise.</p>
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Why yes - Yes we are. As does the Honor System itself - which recognizes there are varying degrees. From the Honor System FAQ:</p>
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Notice the highlighted words. Try to understand the intent of the Honor Code. There is pride to be had for students who operate in an environment where the Honor Code exists and is very public, and they know they are held to a higher standard among their peers than most college students. It will hopefully help them make smart decisions. But it won’t turn 15,000 students into angels, and it is not in place as a sadistic one-strike-and-you’re-out “gotcha” system for every minor infraction. The fact that people would want to promote it in such a way is a bit disturbing. </p>
<p>@grp2013 My son called the Honor people and hasnt heard back. This was as bad of cheating as you could have. </p>
<p>Imagine a case where a kid pulled out a textbook and hid it behind the computer screen when nothing was supposed to be brought to the test other than your body. No papers, calculators, notes, not nuttin. Then he pulled out a phone and called someone (he was in the back row and my son heard wispering and turned around and saw it and the textbook. </p>
<p>^^^^^^ I agree 100% with grp2013. Have the conversation he suggested with your son and trust that he will do the right thing. If it is as you described above, I know what I would do. </p>
<p>@Knuckle - Yes, that does sound pretty bad - and no wonder the Prof failed him on it. Thanks for the details. Sounds pretty straightforward in this case. Phoning a friend during an exam is a pretty gutsy move - and pretty stupid one at that.</p>
<p>With that said, unless your son heard the actual phone call, that piece of evidence is still unknown - which is why he would want to be sure he has all of his ducks in a row and is sure of his allegations prior to proceeding. If he is, then it’s certainly his call as how to move forward. My advice then would be: support your son in his decision, whatever path he chooses to take. He could go either way and feel at peace with his choice. He can feel good with the fact that reporting it to the professor resulted in the F on the exam. No one would fault him for leaving it at that because, again, the Honor Code doesn’t “require” him to take it further and there was in fact a repercussion to the other student’s actions. However, with that said, in this case, I don’t think anyone could fault him either if he felt that it was the right thing to proceed with an Honor System report. This certainly seems to rise to the level of blatantly violating the expectations of you as a student. Phoning a friend during an exam… wow, shaking my head on that one… Hopefully a member of the Honor Committee can help him make the appropriate decision.</p>
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<p>I don’t think I’m understanding this correctly. How many times did your son see this student cheat? Were these “numerous times” during the same class period? If not, I’d have to wonder why your son waited until the final to say anything. Isn’t witnessing cheating but remaining silent an honor code violation? If they were all during the final, my concern wouldn’t be whether or not your son should report an honor code violation against someone else. It would be whether or not someone else might interpret his behavior as cheating and file one against him, especially if another student’s report is enough to get you a zero on an exam and a year’s suspension.</p>
<p>^^^all the cheating was at the final. as someone mentioned earlier it is not against the honor to not turn a kid in for cheating altho I think it should be. She did tho turn him in to the teacher and the teacher called the honor society. </p>
<p>What do you mean you would be worried whether or not someone else might interpret his behavious as cheating and file one against him. You mean my kid?. What for? </p>
<p>^^^austinmshauri…stop causing unwarranted stress for KnuckleheadsDad. Please read Post #13. </p>