<p>I don't think people view it as a matter of integrity. They just view it as something natural to do.</p>
<p>agreed, i don't even consider it cheating.. more like collaborating. So i take it you think helping each other out on homework is considered cheating as well?</p>
<p>A very Machiavellian attitude. :eek: That which we call a rose by any other word...</p>
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Does it say that you can't consult a friend with the quizzes?
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<p>I don't know about at other schools, but our professors are always very explicit about what resources we may use.</p>
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agreed, i don't even consider it cheating.. more like collaborating. So i take it you think helping each other out on homework is considered cheating as well?
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<p>Unless informed otherwise, we are allowed to help each other with homework provided each person has done the work for themselves and understands what they have written, and anyone who provided help is cited.</p>
<p>If you don't care about integrity at all, it comes down to this: is cheating worth the risk of getting kicked out of school?</p>
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They will make these quizzes worth a very small percentage of the grade (usually 5 - 10 percent MAX). Why risk losing free points when you don't have to?
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<p>if it's such an insignificant part of your grade, why should you care if you lose a few points? Afterall, it won't matter, right?</p>
<p>CODreject: do you also take people's computers when they leave them on the table at the library and are nowhere to be seen? I mean, if there's no chance of being caught...</p>
<p>If the professor is going to give a take home assignment and the same questions to everyone, they should know that cheating is indeed a good possibility. At my school we're given homework that has to be submitted via internet weekly, but they prevent cheating (because they know it -will- occur) by randomizing the numbers you're given in the problems. So you can help each other figure it out, but you can't just copy off of another individual.</p>
<p>And for all you high-moral types, I really hope you don't end up working jobs in corporate america. Because sooner or later you'll witness something where you need to turn the blind eye or report it. And if you choose to be the whistle blower, you'll be screwed. No one wants to hire a whistle blower, it's been proven again and again.</p>
<p>Don't worry, I never planned to work in corporate America. And it's not like I'm going to tell an administrator, which would be dirty and mean, particularly since these are my friends. It just makes me uncomfortable when they cheat around me.</p>
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If the professor is going to give a take home assignment and the same questions to everyone, they should know that cheating is indeed a good possibility.
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<p>I said it before and I'll say it again. Not at my school.</p>
<p>I agree with beck and soccerguy, that it really does depend the school as some schools take their Honor code very seriously and will throw you out for infractions of the code. </p>
<p>*"Parkhurst" is one of the scariest verbs in the Dartmouth lexicon. Named for the building in which undergraduate judicial hearings occur, getting "Parkhursted" is a slang term for being suspended or expelled by the College. </p>
<p>David Chattman '08, who recently returned from a three-term suspension, faced sanctions due to violations of the honor principle in a freshman English class last winter.</p>
<p>Chattman opted for a hearing and said the process was very intimidating.</p>
<p>"The trial is pretty daunting and an intimidating experience," he said. "There are three teachers and three students and a dean who, beforehand, come up with questions. You get to have an advisor but they're not really there to help you out, just calm you down."</p>
<p>Sayat Ozyilmaz '08, whom COS placed on probation for violations of the honor principle, said that, throughout the process, many students have a subconscious paranoia about getting "Parkhursted."</p>
<p>"Everyone sees it as this source of enigmatic fear; they don't know anything about the procedure," she said.</p>
<p>Angela Fang '07 expressed concerns about violating the academic honor principle unknowingly.</p>
<p>"I always wonder if I could still be caught on a technicality even though I could be so well-intentioned to credit every possible bit of work to the correct author," she said.</p>
<p>Other students feel that such fears are trivial, claiming that it is not difficult to obey the honor code.</p>
<p>"It is your responsibility to educate yourself about the Standards of Conduct," Kirsten Wong '06, a member of COS said. "I feel that if you are a responsible person, we aren't asking too much of you."</p>
<p>Jared Hyatt '06, who also serves on COS, said that professors can do a lot more to prevent uncertainty about the honor code.</p>
<p>"I think professors should be more explicit explaining what students can and cannot do in collaborating with one another," he said. "I think many cases would be avoided if professors spent an extra ten minutes describing what is acceptable behavior."</p>
<p>The standard sanction for an honor code violation is a four-term suspension, but Thompson stressed that COS sentences individuals on a case-by-case basis and, therefore, fears of lengthy suspensions for minor infractions were misplaced.</p>
<p>"Many students make confusions in citations who did not get a four term suspension because that is not appropriate," Thompson said.</p>
<p>"The sanctions are always deliberated and voted on. We match the sanction to the case. While there may be 'standard' sanctions, they aren't fixed and in stone," Wong assured.</p>
<p>Chattman said that, although he understood the need for strict sanctions, the penalties levied against students are often extreme.</p>
<p>"Honor principle violations are treated as murder here. A lot of these violations involve honest mistakes," he said. "I feel the school treats a plagiarizer the same way as a sex offender; it's kind of ridiculous."</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>The thing about cheating is that even if you don't do it yourself, it makes YOU look bad!</p>
<p>As far as whether cheating is ethical, what does your school say?</p>
<p>Part of my school's honor statement is...
...I will uphold the highest standards of
academic integrity. I will not lie, cheat, or steal in my academic endeavors, nor will I accept the actions of those who do. I will conduct myself responsibly and honorably in all my academic activities...</p>
<p>It is referenced in the syllabus of every class and each professor has the option of individually handling infractions or referring them to the Provost and/or Student Life. While I'm sure cheating still occurs here, I think it is fairly uncommon here.</p>
<p>suppose you were given a take home multiple choice test and were told it's a timed closed book test, but the reward for getting a 100% is an automatic A in the class for the rest of the semester. i am sure 99% of the people will cheat.</p>
<p>i admit, i do cheat, but i hate doing it. this society has put so much importance on letters on a piece of paper rather that how much an individual has learned. honestly, i don't remember 1 thing from my freshman-junior math courses. i probably don't even remember stuff from my calculus class from 1st semester. that's because i know i need to get the grade and do whatever it takes. spending 2 hours a night learning the information until test day is useless if i can just study the study guide the teacher hands out the day before the test.</p>
<p>i truly love to learn, but often that is just not enough to get the grades. you sometimes have to put aside your morals and ethics to get ahead and achieve in life.</p>
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suppose you were given a take home multiple choice test and were told it's a timed closed book test, but the reward for getting a 100% is an automatic A in the class for the rest of the semester. i am sure 99% of the people will cheat.
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<p>No. Honesty exists. There are people who value honor more than grades. That you have decided to do otherwise is your fault, not society's.</p>
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No. Honesty exists. There are people who value honor more than grades. That you have decided to do otherwise is your fault, not society's.
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<p>Do you go to college in that place where everyone eats sugar plums and makes ginger bread houses together?</p>
<p>No, I go to college in that place where we sign honor codes and actually believe they mean something. </p>
<p>And it isn't the only such place, either.</p>
<p>If you're going to throw out that "society has put so much importance on letters on a piece of paper rather that how much an individual has learned," I would counter that colleges are their own societies. How many times have you referred to life after graduation as the "real world?" College is a different animal, and the society is what you make of it. Usually, it's prescribed by honor codes/academic honesty policies which you sign when or before you get there.</p>
<p>If you think that cheating on a test will "get you ahead in life" ... you are mistaken. Thanks for speaking on behalf of corporate America though. Worked for Nixon... worked for Enron... oh, you didn't mean those examples?</p>
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suppose you were given a take home multiple choice test and were told it's a timed closed book test, but the reward for getting a 100% is an automatic A in the class for the rest of the semester. i am sure 99% of the people will cheat.
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<p>Maybe at your school, but not at mine.</p>
<p>Some schools have an honor code that is thrown aside. Other schools have an honor code which is part of the school. Part of the community. Grades are respected at schools with strict honor codes, because it is known that the grades were earned fairly. During Freshmen and Transfer Orientation, all new members of the community take the oath.</p>
<p>It's well documented that schools that care about their honor codes take them very seriously. People do get kicked out. Maybe not at your school, but at mine and others.</p>
<p>maybe i should have clarified my post a bit. i'm still in high school, and i know everyone agrees that you will not get into a good college if you don't have the grades in high school. colleges don't give a crap if you learned rocket science, as long as you got a good grade. but once in college, i'm sure it's different.</p>
<p>If you have made it all the way into college w/o dealing with cheaters you came from a very moral-concious high school. Everyone I know has cheated at some point in time - it's a matter of being lazy.</p>
<p>I don't know, otacon88. If you know rocket science and got poor grades, I'm sure some schools would still love to have you. For instance, some might look upon you like other specialists, such as athletes.</p>
<p>kk06: I think the difference between this and high school is that in high school, all the teachers are trying to prevent cheating, they don't give take home quizzes or exams, they make you sit far apart, etc. In college, the professors trust you, and I think that makes it worse to cheat, because not only are you not being academically honest, but you're taking advantage of someone who considers you to be a responsible person.</p>