Chemistry at USC?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Southern California
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<p>Sooo I have been looking at college rankings in chemistry & found that USC isn't ranked very highly at the national level. I understand that these rankings might not be very accurate representations of the programs, but, as a chemistry major, I'm mildly concerned. I was wondering if there were any current students/graduates who could share their experience at USC's chemistry department. :) </p>

<p>Also, I found this website:</p>

<p><a href="http://chemistry-schools.com/california"&gt;http://chemistry-schools.com/california&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>When looking only at California schools, USC fares pretty well, ranking only below the UCs. However, I have discarded attending a UC. As a lower income student, USC and the other meet-100%-need schools I applied to would be cheaper than any UC/CSU. I would appreciate your thoughts on this as well, though. :)</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>I don’t have any input on the relative “rankings” question.</p>

<p>I do have some input in your financial aid comment:
If you are a California resident, the UCs will indeed meet your need per FAFSA. If you have home equity it is possible that USC would expect more from your family than a UC or CSU (remember, USC uses the CSS/Profile which considers assets the FAFSA does not so you may be expected to contribute more than your FAFSA EFC at USC). The UCs include an approximate $9,400 student contribution (summer earnings, Stafford loans, federal work/study) which is consistent with USC’s student expectation. In other words, I would not expect that USC would cost significantly less than a UC even for a low-income student.</p>

<p>The benefit of applying to one of the 23 CSUs is that for many California students, there is a CSU within commuting distance so if money is tight, a college education may still be possible for about the yearly price of a Pell grant or Stafford loan.</p>

3

<p>Thanks @alamemom! I will definitely wait for financial aid letters to make a final decision. I don’t know how accurate this is, but the net prices calculators give me a more expensive price at the UCs, though. I actually didn’t apply to any CSUs, since I get full tuition at both UCs/CSUs (Cal Grant A & UC Gold and Blue Plan). With tuition covered, a UC costs me the same as a CSU.</p>

<p>I understand that CSS looks at other assets, but we virtually have none. We owe our house almost entirely (bought in 2012) and have minimal savings. Taking this into consideration, would the cost vary much?</p>

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<p>I don’t know if they teach (maybe they do,) but USC has two Nobel Laureates in its Chemistry Department.</p>

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<p>Lilliana,</p>

<p>Methinks that website is a joke. Or a poor excuse for a joke. In their national rankings for the “Top 25 Oceanography and Geochemistry Programs” they rank University of Miami, truly a world-class program in this area, at #22, right behind powerhouse University of Southern Mississippi and seven slots behind the University of Wisconsin at Madison (which is about 800 miles away from the closest ocean). </p>

<p>At any school that is of the caliber of USC there is no way that, as an undergraduate, you could exhaust the resources of the Dept of Chemistry.</p>

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<p>@AsleepAtTheWheel Yeah, I guess it doesn’t look reliable. I did check the actual Forbes/US News/etc. sites, and the rankings did match for California. At least they got that part right lol. Thanks for pointing it out, though. I should’ve dug farther. :P</p>

<p>Sooo would you say that research is quite accessible? :)</p>

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<p>My friend’s S was a USC chem major. He did do research and also worked at the student health center. He was admitted to his first choice med school and is now a practicing pediatrician! He was very pleased with his USC education. </p>

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<p>Some rankings are out of date. There have been so many recruited professors as well as other improvements to Dornsife as a result of the $200 million gift. At Dornsife all classes are taught by professors and there are no impacted majors. A TA may teach a lab or lead a discussion group, not teach classes. </p>

<p>If you are interested in the faculty it should be noted the two Nobel Laureates work with other distinguished scholars in the department. Dr. Surya Prakash is a holder of the Tolman Medal, Dr. S Tekehoshi is a Searle Scholar and Dr. Matt Pratt has won the Damon Runyon Innovator Award. </p>

<p>In the chemistry department the following are Fellows of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, among other awards:</p>

<p>Dr. M. Goodman
Dr. A Krylov
Dr. Daniel Lidar-Chairman of the American Physical Society and Fellow of the American Physical Society
Dr. Charles McKenna
Dr. Nicos Petasis-Cope Scholar Award
Dr. H. Reisler
Dr. H. Taylor–Emeritus
Dr. C. Wittig
Dr. Mark Thompson-He is ranked the 12th most influential chemist in the world</p>

<p>The Nobel Prize winners have long lists of honors and awards.</p>

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<p>These have all assured me of quality of Chem at USC. Thank you! :slight_smile:
Could a current/former student describe a typical Chem class/lab period, just to get a glimpse of the environment in general?</p>

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<p>The Chemistry Department isn’t anything to rave about, professors are mediocre at best and you’ll likely change your major before you get very far. The number of chemistry majors that graduate each year is in the single digits due to the unfriendly curriculum (specifically the math/physics requirements). Most people opt for the Biochemistry major or BME and I would suggest the same if you have any interest in the health professions. If you are interested in pursing Chemistry as a career or plan to obtain a PH.D then the Chemistry major is for you. Contrary to what Georgia Girl said, not all classes are taught by professors in Dornsife. In fact, the intro chemistry classes (Chem 105ab both right now) and sometimes the organic chemistry classes (322ab-a right now) are taught by lecturers.</p>

<p>That being said, the department is still better than any CSU and I would likely rank it 6th in California after Berkeley, Stanford, Cal Tech, UCLA, UCSD.</p>

<p>As for your other question, chemistry is learned through doing practice problems. You likely won’t learn much in lecture and end up teaching it to yourself when you go home and go through the problems from the book. You’ll have lab once a week for the classes with lab and lecture 2 or 3 times a week, TAs are highly subjective and grading is also subjective so its really hit or miss.</p>

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<p>@AMX Uhhh :open_mouth: </p>

<ol>
<li><p>“Most people opt for the Biochemistry major or BME and I would suggest the same if you have any interest in the health professions. If you are interested in pursing Chemistry as a career or plan to obtain a PH.D then the Chemistry major is for you.” -Yes, I’d like to make a career out of chemistry. :slight_smile: My mom’s futile efforts to convince me to become a doctor remain strong, which is odd since she has the same issues with blood as I do. ;)) :-& </p></li>
<li><p>“That being said, the department is still better than any CSU and I would likely rank it 6th in California after Berkeley, Stanford, Cal Tech, UCLA, UCSD.” </p></li>
</ol>

<p>-I have to agree with this part. @alamemom, I was pretty surprised/yet glad to hear that UCs meet 100% of need; this would’ve been so helpful to know during the application process. Thank you. However, I’m still a little skeptical about the results I’m getting in the NPC’s. Thus, I’m considering USC above the UCs for now.</p>

<p>3… “As for your other question, chemistry is learned through doing practice problems.”</p>

<p>-Yeah, I’ve learned this the hard way through AP Chem lol.</p>

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<p>@AMX From the type of awards, I think the professors must be pretty accomplished. However, would you say that meaningful discussions during Chem classes are rare? :confused: This is a tad disheartening, although learning is an individual responsibility at the end…</p>

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<p>@AMX I mean, one of the many reasons why I consider USC a great fit is the small classes/faculty-student ratio…Will I even be able to take advantage of these opportunities?</p>

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<p>@Lilliana330 In the end, if your goal is to make a career out of Chemistry then a Ph.D is likely in your sights, a bachelor’s wont do anything for you. The name, pedigree, and publication history of your PI of your Ph.D means more than any undergraduate stuff you do. As an entering chemistry major with those goals in mind, you need to simply join a research lab and try to get published if you want any chance at a top tier Ph.D program while maintaining adequate grades.</p>

<p>Don’t take awards too literally, that is what they have done in the PAST but not necessarily what they are still doing in the present. Although this is somewhat subjective, it is quite true and once tenure is obtained, quality of work always seems to fall off. A better way to identify “hot” professors in the field is to look at their recent publication history as that is a better predictor of their work than awards that may have been from years ago or based on a lucky paper or whatever. If the professor in question has recently published multiple papers is relatively higher impact (factor) journals then that is someone you want to form a relationship with and try to associate yourself. </p>

<p>Yeah, right, meaningful discussions in Chemistry…maybe in a communications or international relations class…
Any meaningful discussion will likely be in office hours if you choose to go and inquire about a topic that interests you.</p>

<p>Something that you need to fully understand is that a bachelor’s in a basic science is virtually worthless, it commands absolutely no respect or accomplishment in the field. You will need a master’s at the minimum for industry and a Ph.D for academia. So does small classes/low student:faculty ratio matter in the long run? Nope, not really, your focus should be getting adequate grades but really pursuing research in search of publication or at least a poster.</p>

<p>Take a look at the currently offered classes: <a href=“302 Found”>http://web-app.usc.edu/soc/20133/chem&lt;/a&gt; Tell me in which classes you actually HAVE a low student:faculty ratio? Not many right? Only a few in the 400s. The 325 series doesn’t count since you take the same section as the 322 series, there is just a distinction between chem and nonchem majors (Also denotes there are ~10 chem majors total in the class of 2016). The ones with multiple professors listed means one professor/lecturer teaches the first half of the semester and the other teaches the second half of the semester.</p>

<p>That being said, USC is STILL better than any CSU, there are far more opportunities available to you in the research side of things, especially when it comes to funding. Once you establish yourself in a research lab, you should apply for research grants (read: you get paid) so that is a really nice incentive. <a href=“Research & Discovery - Undergraduate Education”>http://undergrad.usc.edu/research/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The program isn’t bad or anything, its merely above average but nowhere near top tier. It will serve your needs fine if you indeed want to go into industry or academia but USC will only be the first stop on a much, much longer journey to where you want to go.</p>